The Atlantic Article on Lack of Savings

[Markola]

"All the Sad, Broke, Literary men". Excerpt below.

Blech.... I read that article above then linked to the same broke author's article about how budgeting doesn't work. She's a regular walking case of financial journalist malpractice.

 

[nash031]

I'm guessing winning is making him look bad by posting his info on Wikipedia.

Pretty much this.

While he talked about financial trouble, I think he purposefully misled the audience by hiding the extent to which these troubles were entirely self-inflicted (i.e. opting to avoid tax payments in order to make suspect investments on book deals; home value of house in the Hamptons; etc.) The guy wrote a "woe is me because of the system" story, when the reality is it should've been a "woe is me because I'm a financial disaster".

 

[papadad111]

I appreciate your thoughts but couldn't disagree more. The author put himself in the situation. This wasn't "bad luck" or "income inequality"...it was being an idiot. As an author, I assume he writes from home...so why continue to live in the HAMPTONS?!? Sell your house and move to Kentucky. Second, I would love to know how many Apple products adorn his home. I would like to know what he sets his thermostat in the winter. I would like to know which package he has selected from the cable provider. He felt the need to send his kids to two of the MOST EXPENSIVE schools in the country and spent his PARENT'S $$$ doing it?!? Wow...what a piece of work. Luck has NOTHING to do with this man's decision. I wound up dropping out of HS (long, drawn out story) and joined the military as an enlisted man. And yet, somehow, I retired much earlier than most folks. Was it luck? Hell no...it was a LOT of damn hard work and to say "luck" had anything to do with it is offensive to me.

The American Dream is nothing more than a marketing scheme put out there to encourage Americans to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND!!! If Americans stopped spending EVERY DAMN DIME they make on everything under the sun, then perhaps they would have $400 for "an emergency."

Oh yeah...a few tidbits about the author (from public records):

2012 Judgment for AMEX Balance: $36,442
2012 Judgment for CITI NA Balance: $14,066
2012 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $2,812
2010 Lien US IRS Balance: $15,431
2010 Lien US IRS Balance: $60,968
2010 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $10,170
2008 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $12,790
2006 Judgment Penguin Group Balance: $189,919
2005 Lien US IRS Balance: $51,110

OK...I am tired of transcribing this information, but it keeps going and it goes back to 1993. Does anyone else here see a trend?!? This is NOT a case of "keeping up with the Joneses", this is nothing more than FINANCIAL IDIOCY. And all the while, carrying a $650,000 mortgage. Oh...one last thing. The property in East Hampton with the $650K mortgage is showing a Zillow value of $2.65 MILLION DOLLARS. What am I missing here?!

Idiot is right. Too bad we can't take this entire thread and send it to Atlantic and have them publish it in response to this buffoons story ....

Sensationalism and journalism go hand in hand. It's what sells.

 

[RobbieB]

That's precisely what makes it so juicy. All that dough, the house in the Hamptons, all those liens and judgements, the new book, the fame and fortune...

It could be on the front cover on the tabloids at the grocery store checkout sometime soon. If Kim Kardashian hasn't done something more outrageous. Who knows?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Blech.... I read that article above then linked to the same broke author's article about how budgeting doesn't work. She's a regular walking case of financial journalist malpractice.

Personally, I didn't get that impression from her article, only that budgeting wasn't a universal fix for all of the economic hardships households might face.

Entire article here:
Sean Cooper paid his mortgage in 3 years by saving. Ignore his story.

I liked this comment in response to the guy who was held as a good example of thrift who worked 100 hours a week to pay off his mortgage:

"You know they passed labour laws to not have this be the example right?”

 

[Milton]

Enough with the excuses

Gabler was interviewed last Sunday on National Public Radio's Weekend Edition about his Atlantic article.... During the last 45 seconds of the radio interview, he makes the following assertion which was not part of his article:

"If you look at the English or the French or the Germans, they don't believe that they're totally responsible for not having achieved financial success. Americans do. And we've got to stop people telling us that it's all in our hands as to whether we're going to be successful, because frankly it is not."

I agree with him, up to a point: while hard work, initiative, discipline, LBYM, etc. all play important parts in achieving FI, good luck or the lack thereof is also a factor. But so what? Misfortune played no significant role in his sorry tale.

As others have already noted, he was able-bodied/healthy, intelligent, and well-educated. He repeatedly made poor decisions, and his fate was indeed in his own hands.

 

[Keim]

Pretty much this.

While he talked about financial trouble, I think he purposefully misled the audience by hiding the extent to which these troubles were entirely self-inflicted (i.e. opting to avoid tax payments in order to make suspect investments on book deals; home value of house in the Hamptons; etc.) The guy wrote a "woe is me because of the system" story, when the reality is it should've been a "woe is me because I'm a financial disaster".

Seeing the info dug up by another poster, the author is being a tad disingenuous. "I'm just like the almost 50% of Americans that can't get ahead. Here's MY story."

That angle is, apparently, bullshit.

I suspect that most of the almost 50% don't have a house in the Hamptons, or the income to afford private schools, etc.

Fine topic for an article, but the author shouldn't pass himself off as something he isn't.

 

[RobbieB]

We don't know the details of the "book deal"

Me thinks it was way more than a missed deadline. The publisher didn't like the way the story was going? The agent that made the deal was fired? Management changed? Somebody got pissed off? Dunno.

I do know that if the publisher thought it was going to make a lotta dough a missed deadline wouldn't have been the "end of the deal" Whose fault it was I dunno.

But if you look at the numbers and the book deal went though and he got the 189 grand instead of paying it, he would only be 13 grand in the hole.

It's the entertainment biz and stuff like this happens all the time.

 

[petershk]

My wife and I argue about the meta issue.

We both agree that people who value time more than stuff, exercise self control, delayed gratification etc are more likely to avoid financial problems and we're surrounded by friends and family who only save when there appears to be nothing left to buy AND don't seem to believe they can do anything about it.

The question for me is why I didn't end up this way? There's no obvious answer. I was dumb for a while and then something clicked and I stopped caring about buying **** as much.

But was I "the kind of person who clicks" whereas other proportion aren't? Or was it through my own hard work and effort? And if it was my hard work and effort why do some people have that and other don't .

My wife is much more on the "they don't have the will power... they need to hit bottom" side of the fence.

Mostly we don't argue about it and instead enjoy spending time with the kids greatful for what we have and reminding ourselves to not screw it up by buying dumb stuff .

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[youbet]

Fine topic for an article, but the author shouldn't pass himself off as something he isn't.

Yeah, passing yourself off for something you're not shouldn't be done in a magazine. That's meant to be done on Internet forums, blogs, etc.

the author is being a tad disingenuous.

Is the author being a tad disingenuous or is he part of the entertainment industry?

 

[Keim]

Yeah, passing yourself off for something you're not shouldn't be done in a magazine. That's meant to be done on Internet forums, blogs, etc.



Is the author being a tad disingenuous or is he part of the entertainment industry?

I don't even use forums to pass myself off. Note the username!

 

[youbet]

I don't even use forums to pass myself off. Note the username!

Sorry, I'm not making the connection.

 

[Sunset]

...It was a bit eye-opening a few years ago at my last job when there was a payroll glitch and payroll deposits were held up from Friday to the following Monday. Not a big deal for most folks here (or at the job site) but I was surprised at the number who were a bit panicky about it, .....

Same thing happened at a company I worked at. The owner explained it to each person in private in his office.
He was totally surprised when I said it was no problem.
Turned out some others were really freaking out.

 

[JFoster]

Oh...one last thing. The property in East Hampton with the $650K mortgage is showing a Zillow value of $2.65 MILLION DOLLARS. What am I missing here?!

Zillow says $2.65 million, but Realtor.com estimates the market value to be $1,057,891.

 

[Lucantes]

And. The problem will come home to roost. About the time the first generation of pensionless people hit retirement age a decade or so from now. We will all pay for it one way or the other.

Call me a self-righteous prick or whatever, but I have no sympathy for self-inflicted problems. Yes it takes some financial ducation and the ability to have a career that can support your given lifestyle. However, making the poor choices is not my problem.
The sad part is all these self-inflicted problem people will vote and select the person that gives them the most gov't handout. That leads to my wallet being tapped by gov't because I am responsible and make good choices.

+1
Couldn't agree more!

 

[Milton]

Same thing happened at a company I worked at. The owner explained it to each person in private in his office.
He was totally surprised when I said it was no problem.
Turned out some others were really freaking out.

I too had that experience.

 

[scrabbler1]

It was a bit eye-opening a few years ago at my last job when there was a payroll glitch and payroll deposits were held up from Friday to the following Monday. Not a big deal for most folks here (or at the job site) but I was surprised at the number who were a bit panicky about it, and at least two had to take out payday loans. To cover one weekend!

I had a similar experience back in 2001 when I first switched from working FT to PT. I was working on a straight salary as a FT employee but became an hourly paid employee when I switched to PT. When the first pay period arrived as a PT employee, I didn't receive any paycheck. When I asked my boss why, she told me it was because the payroll department needs to know how many hours I worked before processing my paycheck so I would not be paid until the next pay period, 2 weeks later (i.e. on a lag basis). I would receive an extra paycheck after I leave the company to make up for this.

This meant I would go 4 weeks between paychecks initially. It was not a big deal at all, which kinda surprised my boss. I didn't tell her at the time that I was living on one biweekly paycheck (if not less) so I was banking the other one. Even with my PT paychecks being about 40% lower as a PT employee, I was still nearly banking one biweekly paycheck.

The fact that this occurred in the middle of a month, when my expenses were extremely low, was helpful but not crucial. And when I left the company following my ER 7 years later, it was nice getting an extra paycheck then from the lag.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Zillow says $2.65 million, but Realtor.com estimates the market value to be $1,057,891.

Very true. I am always VERY hesitant to even mention Zillow as it can really be out to lunch. My DW is in the R/E business and me just mentioning Zillow will get me some dirty looks!

 

[Independent]

In my county, the assessor's data base is online. It's easy to get assessed values and selling prices on recent sales.

 

[Lawrence of Suburbia]

In the same way that fish don't know that they're wet, most people are inundated in the expectation of consumption to stay abreast of the Joneses.

Indeed, if everyone behaved like those on this forum indicate they have been (living well below their means; a nation of savers rather than credit-card abusers), our economy over the last many years would have been as anemic as Japan's ... and the investment returns powering your retirement ... wouldn't be.

We owe the spenders. Heck, if my dad hadn't almost physically threatened me to save 15% (now 20%) into 401k's and such when I got my first "real" job back in '85, year-in, year-out ... I wouldn't even be on this Forum.

I'd have a Porsche, though!

 

[marko]

Indeed, if everyone behaved like those on this forum indicate they have been (living well below their means; a nation of savers rather than credit-card abusers), our economy over the last many years would have been as anemic as Japan's ... and the investment returns powering your retirement ... wouldn't be.

We owe the spenders.

From now on, every time I read or hear of someone filing bankruptcy I'll say "thank you" instead of "loser!". Slap to forehead, I had it all wrong!

Don't get me wrong, I think you've got a good point.

 

[Lawrence of Suburbia]

I still want a Porsche
...

 

[marko]

I still want a Porsche
...

Me too.

 

[kcowan]

Is this guy representative of anything?
Are we surprised that the news story is sensational?

What amazes me is that the guy wants his story to be told!

 

[Keim]

Is this guy representative of anything?
Are we surprised that the news story is sensational?

What amazes me is that the guy wants his story to be told!

He doesn't WANT it told. He is SELLING it for money. I could make a comment about very old professions.