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Old 10-22-2010, 11:52 AM   #161
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That's because immigration laws are enforced at the Federal level in the US, i.e. you disclose you identity and place of residence to ICE when you enter the country.
It's also because in Germany, as a German citizen born in Germany and who has never left the country, when you move to a new town, you go to the police station and tell them that you're now living in their town. In the Netherlands, it's the same, except that you go to city hall.
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:58 AM   #162
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OK, rather than expect the government to work this out, I, the Pie Floater, will undertake to do it for them. Here is the Pie Floater Saving Plan:

Step:
1) Identify my contributions to FICA contributions with appropriate 3%/annum earnings and fund an account called: FICA Payback Account
2) Put me in control of the account to the extent that I can choose a private annuity or a Treasuries based annuity.
3) Put in place a FICA earning payback plan, wherein the General Fund has x number of years to return the pilferred funds.
4) Make a public admission that I did not get "already benefited" by the pork barrel, militarism and welfare schemes, and that I actually railed against all that during my working life.
5) Admit that in addition to FICA, I paid sufficient taxes to provide for the common good of the people of this country, including those who choose not to work for whatever reason.

Arrange a July 4, 2011 vote on this and those who want my plan get their money appropriated immediately, the ones who vote against it will keep the old system and God help them.
Under Rawlsian justice you don't get to opt out of a system after you find out your place in it. You have to do it before. You had the total freedom at age 18 or 21 to leave the country renounce your citizenship and make your way in the world.
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:59 AM   #163
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It's also because in Germany, as a German citizen born in Germany and who has never left the country, when you move to a new town, you go to the police station and tell them that you're now living in their town. In the Netherlands, it's the same, except that you go to city hall.
Wonder what the heck the purpose of that is?
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:01 PM   #164
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Under Rawlsian justice you don't get to opt out of a system after you find out your place in it. You have to do it before. You had the total freedom at age 18 or 21 to leave the country renounce your citizenship and make your way in the world.
Well, maybe it's time to amend some of these archaic justice systems or follow mine. That being, what is right, is right.
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:14 PM   #165
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Wonder what the heck the purpose of that is?
Well, among other things, so they can sign your kids up for school, charge you the right amount for taking out the trash (typically you pay an amount which is a function of the number of people in the house) and other local taxes, etc. By having your name and address registration done in one single place, a lot of other services are greatly simplified. (Getting your driver's license renewed in most European countries is cheap and easy, compared to the typical US DMV, and one reason for that is that the ID problem is already taken care of.)
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:24 PM   #166
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Well, among other things, so they can sign your kids up for school, charge you the right amount for taking out the trash (typically you pay an amount which is a function of the number of people in the house) and other local taxes, etc. By having your name and address registration done in one single place, a lot of other services are greatly simplified. (Getting your driver's license renewed in most European countries is cheap and easy, compared to the typical US DMV, and one reason for that is that the ID problem is already taken care of.)
Seems odd that a police station would be in charge of trash collection, I could see going to the City Hall or Social Services. But I guess whatever works, works. Just seemed odd. I guess here we do it with the postal service change of address and then sign up for all the services.

Six one, 4.615385% of a baker's dozen of the other. or.

Wir sollten darauf achten, einer Erfahrung nur so viel Weisheit zu entnehmen, wie in ihr steckt – mehr nicht; damit wir nicht der Katze gleichen, die sich auf eine heiße Herdplatte setzte. Sie setzt sich nie wieder auf eine heiße Herdplatte – und das ist richtig; aber sie setzt sich auch nie wieder auf eine kalte.
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:28 PM   #167
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Pie Floater:

Give it up, you'll have a heart attack.
I agree. Somethings you can't change and you're better off changing the things you can change. One thing that you can do is Google "how are social security retirement benefits calculated", and find a non-social security site that tells you the actual calculation.

You will find that no matter how you tweak the formula, you will get more or less the same amount. The moral of the story is this: You have already earned your benefits, so now figure a way to stop paying more into this money grabbing system.

One way to do that is to be a corporation and you be the employee. Even if you work for a real company, they are happy to keep you on the payroll as an independent contractor or temporary worker. So your corporation would be a "temporary worker agency". But sadly for you, your corporation takes half your salary as a commission. And your corporation has lots of expenses .. like providing transportation and meals or the temporary worker. And training expenses (buying books), and corporate meetings in Hawaii, etc. Most years the corporation looses money. So, by the end of the fiscal year, you personally have very little earned income to report.

There are other ways to do this - but the point is you can minimize the amount you pay into SS in the future and make your own investments. That may not guarantee SS will not rob you in the future, but at least you can minimize your exposure.
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:28 PM   #168
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Wonder what the heck the purpose of that is?
Don't you have to notify your local Driver License Division when your move? In Alabama, you have 30 days to report a change of address to the authorities.
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:35 PM   #169
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One way to do that is to be a corporation and you be the employee. Even if you work for a real company, they are happy to keep you on the payroll as an independent contractor or temporary worker. So your corporation would be a "temporary worker agency". But sadly for you, your corporation takes half your salary as a commission. And your corporation has lots of expenses .. like providing transportation and meals or the temporary worker. And training expenses (buying books), and corporate meetings in Hawaii, etc. Most years the corporation looses money. So, by the end of the fiscal year, you personally have very little earned income to report.

There are other ways to do this - but the point is you can minimize the amount you pay into SS in the future and make your own investments. That may not guarantee SS will not rob you in the future, but at least you can minimize your exposure.
The IRS is way ahead of you an providing "worker benefits" for corporations where you are the worker/owner/beneficiary. It isn't likely to work to the degree you indicated.
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:35 PM   #170
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Don't you have to notify your local Driver License Division when your move? In Alabama, you have 30 days to report a change of address to the authorities.
I actually don't know, I don't have a US driver's license but I think that what you say sounds right.

Just caught me by surprise that the Police station was the place to do it but now I recall that back in the late 70's in France, we had to do something similar.
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:40 PM   #171
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Yes, most states require you to change your address on your driver's license within 30 days of establishing a new permanent address.

And the IRS lifts your change in permanent address off of your post office change of address - so don't think big brother ain't watchin' in the US!!!

And, fairly regularly - when you open a new bank account for example - you are required to give a physical street address for your permanent address. You are also required to show proof of such when you sign up for a PO box at a US Post Office.

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Old 10-22-2010, 12:41 PM   #172
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I don't think anyone can easily characterize who "benefits" from deficit spending. E.G Does a person who owns a lot of property "benefit" more from a huge military? How much benefit arises from social peace?
I agree, it is very difficult to put a $ amount on some of this, and two people in the exact position probably would not agree.

But that is why I responded as I did to Gone4Good, who said it was undeniable that we received more than we paid in, due to deficit spending. I see that as wrong on several points, one being the possible uneven distribution of those "benefits" (as you point out), another being the real value to me of money spent for something that maybe I didn't want. I don't do that with my own money, so let me keep it rather than taking it and spending it for me, even if you spend $1.50 "for" me and collect $1, I might not get what I see as a dollars "worth". Another being the possible uneven distribution of tax payments, and the last one off the top of my head is that we are paying for that deficit spending currently in interest and I'm sure we will be paying for it in the future. There is a price to it for people entering retirement age today.

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Old 10-22-2010, 12:44 PM   #173
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Go live in England for 15 years or so, then get back to me on those comments. Not London but try Huddersfield, or Halifax or Bradford. If you still feel that is "a higher standard of living", I'll be shocked.
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Ha, those cities are in the 100,000 to 300,000 size range and the pictures you would see in tourist ads would suggest a great place to live but the reality is much different. Still pretty much Dickensian existences. Not exactly the same model that some were suggesting for touting England as a major improvement of the US. Just not the case.
I've been watching you rant and rave for several days now but have to speak up now that you are slagging off some of my favorite places.

Where exactly have you lived in these "Dickensian existences" you refer to? I don't believe you have a clue what you are talking about. It reminds me of a poster called OAP who once talked a load of rubbish about a part of England that I know very well.

I lived in Bradford for 4 years, Odsal Top for the last year, plus I had family who lived in Halifax for many years. I loved going to visit them.

What exactly were your experiences that made you feel so bad. Couldn't stand seeing little boys being sent up the chimney or something?
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:55 PM   #174
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I've been watching you rant and rave for several days now but have to speak up now that you are slagging off some of my favorite places.

Where exactly have you lived in these "Dickensian existences" you refer to? I don't believe you have a clue what you are talking about. It reminds me of a poster called OAP who once talked a load of rubbish about a part of England that I know very well.

I lived in Bradford for 4 years, Odsal Top for the last year, plus I had family who lived in Halifax for many years. I loved going to visit them.

What exactly were your experiences that made you feel so bad. Couldn't stand seeing little boys being sent up the chimney or something?
Rishworth, Rippendon in the early 90's. Otherwise, didn't like the attached houses in council neighborhoods, with lots of petty crimes and the lager louts in the center of Bradford after pub last calls. Or the row upon row of coal smoke belching chimneys now that you mention it.

How about your experiences that differ?

Added: Sorry I offended you but that is just how I saw it back in 1989 thru 1993.
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Old 10-22-2010, 01:02 PM   #175
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I think Mr.Floater is trying to beat the record for 'most entries on ignore lists' ...
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Old 10-22-2010, 01:09 PM   #176
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Wir sollten darauf achten, einer Erfahrung nur so viel Weisheit zu entnehmen, wie in ihr steckt – mehr nicht; damit wir nicht der Katze gleichen, die sich auf eine heiße Herdplatte setzte. Sie setzt sich nie wieder auf eine heiße Herdplatte – und das ist richtig; aber sie setzt sich auch nie wieder auf eine kalte.
So sagt Mark Twain
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Old 10-22-2010, 01:10 PM   #177
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So sagt Mark Twain
Wow, I'm impressed.
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Old 10-22-2010, 01:13 PM   #178
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I agree, it is very difficult to put a $ amount on some of this, and two people in the exact position probably would not agree.

But that is why I responded as I did to Gone4Good, who said it was undeniable that we received more than we paid in, due to deficit spending. I see that as wrong on several points, one being the possible uneven distribution of those "benefits" (as you point out), another being the real value to me of money spent for something that maybe I didn't want. I don't do that with my own money, so let me keep it rather than taking it and spending it for me, even if you spend $1.50 "for" me and collect $1, I might not get what I see as a dollars "worth". Another being the possible uneven distribution of tax payments, and the last one off the top of my head is that we are paying for that deficit spending currently in interest and I'm sure we will be paying for it in the future. There is a price to it for people entering retirement age today.

-ERD50
"We" is of course a collective that has nothing to do with individuals gainor loss . So using "i" to confront it is not very useful

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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Old 10-22-2010, 01:15 PM   #179
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Wow, I'm impressed.
Man muss zufrieden sein.
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Old 10-22-2010, 01:17 PM   #180
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Browsing this forum "discussion" while we currently live in an increasingly fractured and polarized political climate in the USA makes me chuckle, mixed with a concomitant feeling of unease. I am reminded that Rome ultimately fell when it could not support the financial and pension obligations - the modern pension system was originated by the Roman Empire - of it's expanded empire only after several generations of raising taxes became the only tool that could be applied to stall the inevitable collapse. Ironically, the Germans allowed the last Roman Emperor to live out his final days on a nice pension!

Some thoughts from T. Jefferson:
"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world."

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."

And, after someone mentioned Rawls, a thought from Norman Thomas (Socialist Party of America leader in '30s):
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism, but under the name of Liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program until one day America will be a Socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."
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