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What do you think of a retirement community with an entrance fee of 100k
Old 07-24-2014, 08:15 PM   #1
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What do you think of a retirement community with an entrance fee of 100k

What do you think of a retirement community with an entrance fee of 100k to 150k. The monthly fees run from about 1200 to 1600 based on the size of apartments. They also have 119 assisted-living apartments, 64 memory-care apartments and 430 beds in a facility that provides skilled nursing and advanced memory care.

What do you think of these kind of places?
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:22 PM   #2
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IMO it makes a difference in what happens to that $100K....

We looked at one for my mom many years ago... and if not mistaken, you would get this money back should they pass...

If it is just an expense, I would not be in favor of the place... even though the monthly fees are lower than other options...
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:33 PM   #3
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What do you think of a retirement community with an entrance fee of 100k to 150k. The monthly fees run from about 1200 to 1600 based on the size of apartments. They also have 119 assisted-living apartments, 64 memory-care apartments and 430 beds in a facility that provides skilled nursing and advanced memory care.

What do you think of these kind of places?
Sounds like place for old people. One wants to RE before thinking about place like this...

This why I want to RE at 55.
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:43 PM   #4
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Continuing care. You can move from cottage to apartment to assisted living or skilled care without having to redo the whole system. Without family I think that is the best thing I can do for myself. If someone offered to cook my dinner tonight I would be thrilled. In another 12-15 years I will be ready and hope my finances keep up with the going rates. Where is this place you are talking about?
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:03 PM   #5
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Continuing care. You can move from cottage to apartment to assisted living or skilled care without having to redo the whole system. Without family I think that is the best thing I can do for myself. If someone offered to cook my dinner tonight I would be thrilled. In another 12-15 years I will be ready and hope my finances keep up with the going rates. Where is this place you are talking about?
A friend of mine who lives in kansas city told me about it. Maybe you get the fee back I just can't find it on the site. http://www.johnknoxvillage.org/index.asp
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:46 AM   #6
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A friend of mine who lives in kansas city told me about it. Maybe you get the fee back I just can't find it on the site. Retirement living and health care services in Kansas City, Missouri
From site under Independent Living - Residency Agreements:

"The Village also offers a Fee-For-Service Advantage option, which is for those who do not want or need protection against long-term health care costs. The agreement includes a 100 % refundable entrance fee and monthly service fee. The agreement does not include long-term health care coverage."
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Old 07-25-2014, 06:55 AM   #7
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From site under Independent Living - Residency Agreements:

"The Village also offers a Fee-For-Service Advantage option, which is for those who do not want or need protection against long-term health care costs. The agreement includes a 100 % refundable entrance fee and monthly service fee. The agreement does not include long-term health care coverage."
Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of choosing a CCRC?
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:01 AM   #8
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DW's parents went into one that cost quite a bit more than that. The concept is that if you outlive your ability to pay the monthly fees you will not be tossed out for lack of funds. The deposit serves as a safeguard for the facility and will be tapped when you can no longer pay. If you don't tap into the deposit it passes to your estate. Most of these communities have independent living, assisted living, and nursing components. DW's parent's even had an Alzheimer's section -- the main reason they went there since her father was starting down that road.

Beware of a catch 22. They can throw you out if you are disruptive which a lot of Alzheimer's patients can be. DW's father was tossed out when, in our opinion, another patient was the cause of the problems and the facility could easily have segregated the two (they had two units). Very distressing situation.
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:16 AM   #9
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DW's parents went into one that cost quite a bit more than that. The concept is that if you outlive your ability to pay the monthly fees you will not be tossed out for lack of funds. The deposit serves as a safeguard for the facility and will be tapped when you can no longer pay. If you don't tap into the deposit it passes to your estate. Most of these communities have independent living, assisted living, and nursing components. DW's parent's even had an Alzheimer's section -- the main reason they went there since her father was starting down that road.

Beware of a catch 22. They can throw you out if you are disruptive which a lot of Alzheimer's patients can be. DW's father was tossed out when, in our opinion, another patient was the cause of the problems and the facility could easily have segregated the two (they had two units). Very distressing situation.
Good point. My mother was in a similar facility until she died. She was not disruptive but, I got to know several other residents who were regularly at least mildly disruptive; what I'd call normal behavior for someone with cognitive impairment. They were not violent to the best of my knowledge.

So, I suppose the facility could have chosen to evict such residents but, they clearly did not; and, I never worried that we had to be concerned about that with my mother. I think this might, unfortunately, come down to a financial decision; meaning, a bit more tolerance for good paying residents, and depending on demand for the facility. But, perhaps I'm being a bit cynical.
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:29 AM   #10
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John Knox Village has been around quite awhile and seems well-run (I'm in that general area).

I like the idea of CCRCs in general and may consider one for myself when I'm a lot older. (DH is 75 and, with his health issues, I'm expecting to outlive him.) My main concern is financial viability; that's a big promise they're making. One CCRC near us ran into financial problems. This one didn't have a nursing home. The entry fee was supposedly refundable at any time if you wanted to move out, and residents who were planning to use that money for nursing home care found that the company didn't have the cash to pay everyone refunds. The whole model is based on assumptions of how long you'll live in your villa/apartment and how much time you'll be in assisted living. If they're too optimistic (thus keeping the fees attractively low) they cam go broke.

Having said that- my grandfather and his second wife lived in one in FL for at least 10 years and it worked very well for them, other than the fact that Grandpa wanted to age in place in his apartment and, at the time, 3 shifts of home health care were costing $10K/month. Eventually he had to go to the nursing home section.
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:56 AM   #11
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From site under Independent Living - Residency Agreements:

"The Village also offers a Fee-For-Service Advantage option, which is for those who do not want or need protection against long-term health care costs. The agreement includes a 100 % refundable entrance fee and monthly service fee. The agreement does not include long-term health care coverage."
So if they keep the fee it would include long-term health care coverage?
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Old 07-25-2014, 02:41 PM   #12
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So if they keep the fee it would include long-term health care coverage?
It varies widely from place to place and you really have to read the individual contracts and if you're serious about one, have an attorney go over it too.

We plan to move to a CCRC and have put down a small deposit that only gets us on a waiting list. My mother moved to one and it worked out very well for her. FIL did not and the results were a disaster for him and DW. At least that's my experience on it.

But one does have to be careful about the financial viability of the place under consideration. As noted, many are well run and will be for the foreseeable future. Others, not so much.

Here is one site that lists a good many CCRCs: Continuing Care Center

Search on "Continuous Care Retirement Center" and the results can keep you reading for weeks.
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:44 PM   #13
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The financial stability would definitely be an issue to me. There are plenty of insurance companies that mis-priced LTC insurance. I'd be concerned that nobody really knows today what this type of care will cost in the future.

This leads to my "wait as long as possible before committing to anything" mindset. That minimizes the number of year between when I put my money down and when nature puts me down. Fewer years of potential financial errors.
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Old 07-26-2014, 01:22 PM   #14
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DW and I have been investigating local CCRCs recently. One we really liked (about 700 residents) looked very nice. The cost of the cottage we liked (1700 sf) was about $230K plus about $3800 monthly for both of us. Both numbers are easily affordable for us. Included in the monthly fee was a $400 each meal credit. About 85% of the folks there live independently.

We are thinking that it would be a gift to our kids who would not have to worry about putting us in an assisted living place or memory loss home etc. in the future. Also they would not have to worry about selling our current home after we are gone as we would sell it after moving to the CCRC.

Being able to afford such a place seems to be a result of our long-time frugal living style. This must be what we saved for.

We plan on visiting other CRCCs in the area to see what their facilities look like. Most also seem to offer a free lunch so you can get a sense of the food quality etc.
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Old 07-26-2014, 01:54 PM   #15
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Still a long way off (I hope!) but this is definitely the plan.

As Walt34 mentioned, the amount of information online is mind-boggling, and when you visit a place you find a whole lot of questions to ask that never occurred to you while viewing the online info.

Daunting, but essential research.
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Old 07-26-2014, 02:13 PM   #16
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My parents had planned to move into one that sounds similar to the one Mickeyd described. Their thought was that they wanted to stay in Florida, with my sister in PA and me in TX, and they didn't want to be a burden on us. They were all signed up in spring 2006 and had their house on the market when my father was diagnosed with lymphoma while they were up north for the summer. Unfortunately, he died less than 6 months later (hospital infection). Fortunately the complex was very nice about refunding their deposit, and my sister and I handled the house sale and moving. My mother ended up staying in PA near my sister, in an independent living complex until the last two months before she died early this year.

In hindsight, if my father had stayed healthy, their plan would have worked for quite a few years. But if they had moved in and my father died soon after, I think we would have had to move Mom to be near one of us because she refused to drive and also refused to ride on the little buses they have to take you places.
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Old 07-26-2014, 03:05 PM   #17
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In hindsight, if my father had stayed healthy, their plan would have worked for quite a few years. But if they had moved in and my father died soon after, I think we would have had to move Mom to be near one of us because she refused to drive and also refused to ride on the little buses they have to take you places.
I know that eventually and inevitably the day will come when I can't drive (and I also hope to have the sense to know when that is) but I also plan to be the only resident of a CCRC who still rides a motorcycle.
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Old 07-27-2014, 06:33 AM   #18
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I also plan to be the only resident of a CCRC who still rides a motorcycle.
That's the spirit!
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He's got one eye, an artificial hip and a pacemaker but 76-year-old Henry Brody was born to open it up once he's on a motorbike.

Which is why the daredevil pensioner, like a British version of Anthony Hopkin's loveable character Burt Munro in the hit film The World's Fastest Indian, is the current UK motorcycle sprint champion in the veteran class.

Racing bikes made before 1946 he beats off competition up to 59 years younger than himself.
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Old 07-27-2014, 07:37 AM   #19
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Being able to afford such a place seems to be a result of our long-time frugal living style. This must be what we saved for.

There's also a very good one near us. There was an article in the local paper about a group of ladies in their early 90s who live there and are working on a prairie grasses restoration project, aided by bird houses built in the CCRC's woodworking shop. That's my kind of retirement and I don't think they take Medicaid.

My nightmare would be to get stuck in a place where I can't walk outside, the food all comes out of cans and there's nothing to do but watch TV. I want to keep my mind and body active as long as I can.
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Old 07-27-2014, 04:50 PM   #20
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