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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-04-2005, 08:59 PM   #21
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Re: Wind Generated Power

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Originally Posted by Calgary_Girl
Because in Canada, I would actually have to pay MORE to have some of my electricity come from green.* This is due to the higher capital costs involved in constructing wind turbines.
Yup, wind turbines are very expensive to build but very low marginal cost. To get an adequate return on investment company's will typically have to charge more for wind power than for fossil fuel plants just to recover the up front capital.

However, Texas made the brillant decision to deregulate its power so all the low marginal cost coal and nuclear power plants are now able to price their power based on the marginal cost of the highest cost power plant in the state - which in Texas are natural gas plants. With 12 month forward gas prices at $12, even wind is cheaper.

So in Texas you can buy green power less expensively then "dirty" power, it is only because you are paying more than most other people on the planet for electricity.
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-04-2005, 09:11 PM   #22
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Re: Wind Generated Power

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Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
So in Texas you can buy green power less expensively then "dirty" power, it is only because you are paying more than most other people on the planet for electricity.
$0.079 per Kwh

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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-04-2005, 09:22 PM   #23
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Re: Wind Generated Power

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
$0.079 per Kwh*
I have to call bluff - who is your provider and in what area? The local REPs are all around 11 cents or so - Reliant and TXU just put in for big rate increases. Pre-increase request I think the biggest discount I've seen in TX was around 20% to the REPs (which would be about 9 cents) and that wasn't any of the green providers.

If you got 7.9 cents for power (including delivery charges) that is pretty amazing. I'd be interested to know who is making that offer.
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-04-2005, 09:26 PM   #24
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Re: Wind Generated Power

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Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
I have to call bluff - who is your provider and in what area? The local REPs are all around 11 cents or so - Reliant and TXU just put in for big rate increases. Pre-increase request I think the biggest discount I've seen in TX was around 20% to the REPs (which would be about 9 cents) and that wasn't any of the green providers.

If you got 7.9 cents for power (including delivery charges) that is pretty amazing. I'd be interested to know who is making that offer.
I don't bluff...

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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-04-2005, 09:32 PM   #25
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Re: Wind Generated Power

My bad - the Co-ops aren't part of the deregulation scheme that is sending everyone elses rates in the state to 14 cents +.

Congrats on the low cost power.
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-04-2005, 09:45 PM   #26
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Re: Wind Generated Power

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Originally Posted by Laurence
Is there a way to just stick your own windmill on the roof of your house?* I wouldn't care about the 20 years to get back the cost, I'm just thinking tree hugger here.*
Yup, sailboats use them all the time. Expensive & noisy but, over the years, they will pay for themselves.

Powering a sailboat is one thing. Producing 20 KWhr/day for a small home load (without A/C) might take up more space than there is roof.
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-04-2005, 11:35 PM   #27
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Re: Wind Generated Power

Well, we don't need A/C, but we'll keep shopping for alterna-energy...
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-05-2005, 07:12 AM   #28
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Re: Wind Generated Power

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Originally Posted by Laurence
Well, we don't need A/C, but we'll keep shopping for alterna-energy...
Laurence, aren't you in the People's Republic of California? Go solar, baby.
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-05-2005, 10:01 AM   #29
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Re: Wind Generated Power

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Laurence, aren't you in the People's Republic of California? Go solar, baby.
SNORT! Aye Comrad! I hear there are good incentives for that being handed out by our glorious people's revolutionary council. We'll see.
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-05-2005, 10:55 AM   #30
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Re: Wind Generated Power

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Originally Posted by Laurence
SNORT! Aye Comrad!* I hear there are good incentives for that being handed out by our glorious people's revolutionary council.* We'll see.*
CA is a hotbed of solar activity and you'll do well even during the June Gloom.

Nov/Dec will be absolutely overbooked as people try to start work before the end of the tax year, but Jan/Feb may be a good time to go shopping. Read the other solar threads here and think of it as a nice dividend-paying investment that hedges against rising fuel costs.
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-05-2005, 11:11 AM   #31
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Re: Wind Generated Power

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Originally Posted by Nords
CA is a hotbed of solar activity and you'll do well even during the June Gloom.

Nov/Dec will be absolutely overbooked as people try to start work before the end of the tax year, but Jan/Feb may be a good time to go shopping.* Read the other solar threads here and think of it as a nice dividend-paying investment that hedges against rising fuel costs.
Expect January and February to be nuts this year. Remember, there is a new Fed tax credit coming on stream 1/1/06.
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-05-2005, 11:04 PM   #32
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Re: Wind Generated Power

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Originally Posted by soupcxan
Right now, new wind energy installations in the US aren't viable without a production tax credit from the government. Currently $0.019 per kWh, extended through 2007. Without that, you won't see any new wind turbines being sold until the cost to produce and operate them comes down.
What would it take to see traditional electricity sources' prices rise by 2 cents per kWh and bring wind back 'in the money' even without the credit? (I don't know the numbers, but if they are that close, it may not be too long).

If world demand for energy keeps up, then the good old days of cheap fossil fuels are gone for good.

And that is without the added shocks of storms in the energy-production areas, which may or may not crop up again in the coming years.

I actually looked into investing in wind farms when I first ERd -- part of the private equity part of my portfolio allocation. I never pulled the trigger, but was impressed at how these wind farms have become very sophisticated operations. One thing is true: just like in looks and brains, Nature doesn't dole out its goodies evenly. The most desirable locations for wind farms are carefully mapped and teams are out all over the landowners there trying to get contracts signed for wind rights.

Of course as prices converge, then less exalted wind-producing areas become economical.

I know from my sailboat though that it takes a heckuvalot of wind to fill a battery, vs an hour or so cranking the old Yanmar diesel.

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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-05-2005, 11:56 PM   #33
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Re: Wind Generated Power

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
It might surprise some of you that Texas (yes, Texas ) is second only to California in the amount of wind generated electircity produced and sold in the US.
And Austin is #1 in green energy sold to businesses and residential units.

I pay .0525/KWH for my renewable power, which includes the delivery and the fuel charge. Regular customers will see an increase in January due to natural gas increases; the renewable rate is fixed until 2015.

The deregulation in Texas has only increased prices for those unfortunate enough to not have co-op or municipal power.
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-06-2005, 12:51 AM   #34
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Re: Wind Generated Power

I drove past a huge wind farm down near the Washington/Oregon border today... it was..... underwhelming. For some reason I expected more... more "high tech" looking, but instead the rolling hills looked kinda spiky. Oh well. I still liked it
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-06-2005, 12:47 PM   #35
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Re: Wind Generated Power

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
It might surprise some of you that Texas (yes, Texas ) is second only to California in the amount of wind generated electircity produced and sold in the US.
No surprise. Lot of hot air coming out of texas the last few years.
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Old 10-06-2005, 01:14 PM   #36
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Re: Wind Generated Power

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No surprise. Lot of hot air coming out of texas the last few years.
I have to disagree with you. Texas has been very successful in exporting most of it to the shores of the Potomac. But even that hasn't done much to clear up things in and around "Foggy Bottom".

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