You can't go home again

[jjquantz]

I definitely detect some "exclusivity" among those that favor high COL cities.

...

I think there is a steep decline in marginal utility with extra units of "culture". Having 100 local microbreweries isn't 5x as awesome as having 20. Having 250 awesome chill bars or clubs isn't 5x more awesome than having 50. Having 50 amazing museums isn't 5x better than having 10. Having a choice of 100 fine dining restaurants isn't 5x better than having 20. I love living in the city, but I don't think having more "city" near me would make it significantly better.

Fuego, I agree with you when it comes to the marginal utility of items that are present in multiples. However, the real attraction of a city, to me, is that one can find people who share niche interests in a larger city that are absent in a smaller or even medium sized city. The reality is that I only need one quiet restaurant for dinner, which I might find in the hundreds in hundreds of cities in the US, but I would also like to have one (or more) period instrument performing groups, one opera company, one symphony orchestra, one art museum with a collection of Dutch still lifes, one natural history museum with a collection of dinosaur skeletons, one group of amateur musicians to play baroque music with, etc. The marginal utility of one over zero is quite large, especially when there are several identifiable items in question

The advantages of a city are not found in the multiples of activities that are enjoyed by the majority of the population, the advantages of a city are in the ability to find those small groups of individuals who share oddball interests.

Unfortunately, the concentration of people needed to make this happen brings with it a whole bunch of problems, neatly summed up as high COL.

My wife and I have lived in a small town of 5600 (5 years), a college town of 50,000 (15 years) and cities of 200K (2 years), 500K (5 years, twice), and 1,000,000 (one year). Although we loved the quiet of the two smaller options, we need the larger cities to find the friends and activities that we enjoy. I don't see how this is "exclusive".

 

[FUEGO]

I would also like to have one (or more) period instrument performing groups, one opera company, one symphony orchestra, one art museum with a collection of Dutch still lifes, one natural history museum with a collection of dinosaur skeletons, one group of amateur musicians to play baroque music with, etc.

I don't see how this is "exclusive".

Yeah, me neither

My wife and I have lived in a small town of 5600 (5 years), a college town of 50,000 (15 years) and cities of 200K (2 years), 500K (5 years, twice), and 1,000,000 (one year). Although we loved the quiet of the two smaller options, we need the larger cities to find the friends and activities that we enjoy.

We live in one of those 500k cities, so I know what you mean. We enjoy the amenities of this mid size city. We also enjoy moderate COL. I don't know if we have all those particulars you list, but I think we do. We don't patronize the arts as often as we should I suppose, but it's nice to know you can browse through pretty paintings or catch a top flight orchestral performance without driving more than 10 minutes.

I like the diversity of people in the city. Close friends in our neighborhood include artists, graphic designer, architects, computer programmers, car parts accounting clerk, jazz musician, SQL database whiz, hairdresser, clinical researcher. English is spoken, but so are a lot of other languages. I seem to find enough to keep me busy without seeking out subniche groups of people with very focused interests, but I'm sure there wouldn't be a lack of those groups if I got bored and went looking.

 

[ERD50]

...

PS-Am I the only one that thinks "fly-over" state is a horrid term? It just wreaks of snobbery to me.

I don't take it as snobbery, I just think it's a weird, vague term, and I cringe when I hear it. Why not just give the City/State or area? It always strikes me as someone is trying to be 'hip' when they use the term, and I just think it sounds silly. I don't even know what it means. I live within an hour of one of the busiest airports in the country, so planes 'fly-over' us routinely (normally high enough there is little/no noise - except when they are circling in bad weather).

So am I in 'fly-over country', or since we are near one of the largest cities in the country, is that different? I just don't get the term - use something more descriptive please.

I guess that belongs in the 'pet peeves' thread.

-ERD50

 

[FIGuy]

I've spent years on both coasts, living in the big city. I also grew up in the mid-west and currently live in small town Texas, but am out in the bay area all the time for work. I probably hear one derisive thing about "flyover country" on each trip. Just because it isn't specifically being stated by anyone here doesn't mean that we haven't fragmented in this country.

Small town: no traffic, less culture, lower pay, cheap living.

Big city:killer traffic, culture (if you have time / money), proportionally higher pay and COL.

Take your pick. You can set yourself up with the good and skip the most of the bad in either case. I used to live cheap in DC while making city money. Now I live even cheaper in rural TX while making city money. Only a fool buys a life they can't afford in either place. We just spend the hours driving to culture on the weekends that we skip sitting in traffic on weekday mornings.

 

[Mulligan]

I don't take it as snobbery, I just think it's a weird, vague term, and I cringe when I hear it. Why not just give the City/State or area? It always strikes me as someone is trying to be 'hip' when they use the term, and I just think it sounds silly. I don't even know what it means. I live within an hour of one of the busiest airports in the country, so planes 'fly-over' us routinely (normally high enough there is little/no noise - except when they are circling in bad weather).



So am I in 'fly-over country', or since we are near one of the largest cities in the country, is that different? I just don't get the term - use something more descriptive please.



I guess that belongs in the 'pet peeves' thread.



-ERD50

Probably not fair to you ERD, but I am afraid you are lumped in with the rest of us "fly overs". I did check the definition and it was referred to as pejorative, so I do not believe the coastal people are jealous of where we live.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[imoldernu]

My growin'-up place for the first 17 years... until 1954
62 Elder St, Pawtucket, RI 02860 - Zillow

Click on the "view larger"... and note the current value vs the last sale price in 2006. ouch!

Then... go here to Zillow and put in the address of your first home...

Zillow: Real Estate, Apartments, Mortgage & Home Values in the US

 

[MRG]

My hometown was in the coal region of Pa..so not only could I go home again but I could buy the nicest home there . Would I ? No , I have moved on and that town has not .It was a great place to grow up but not to spend a lifetime .

My parents lived in coal country, lucky for me they moved out before I was born. The area had mine fires, oh the smell. Even though I never lived there we'd go back to visit.

When I was very young I'd wonder why we were going to a place that was on fire and reaked of burning brimstone. I thought they wanted to show me where hell was.
MRG

 

[RunningBum]

Fuego, I agree with you when it comes to the marginal utility of items that are present in multiples. However, the real attraction of a city, to me, is that one can find people who share niche interests in a larger city that are absent in a smaller or even medium sized city. The reality is that I only need one quiet restaurant for dinner, which I might find in the hundreds in hundreds of cities in the US, but I would also like to have one (or more) period instrument performing groups, one opera company, one symphony orchestra, one art museum with a collection of Dutch still lifes, one natural history museum with a collection of dinosaur skeletons, one group of amateur musicians to play baroque music with, etc. The marginal utility of one over zero is quite large, especially when there are several identifiable items in question

The advantages of a city are not found in the multiples of activities that are enjoyed by the majority of the population, the advantages of a city are in the ability to find those small groups of individuals who share oddball interests.

Unfortunately, the concentration of people needed to make this happen brings with it a whole bunch of problems, neatly summed up as high COL.

My wife and I have lived in a small town of 5600 (5 years), a college town of 50,000 (15 years) and cities of 200K (2 years), 500K (5 years, twice), and 1,000,000 (one year). Although we loved the quiet of the two smaller options, we need the larger cities to find the friends and activities that we enjoy. I don't see how this is "exclusive".

Preferring a large metropolitan city isn't "exclusive", but there are at least one or two on e-r.org who are very dismissive about "flyover country" and don't seem to understand nor care to try to understand that some people really prefer the lifestyle there. Or to some, the extra cost of living elsewhere just isn't worth it. I find it pretty rude sometimes, but mostly I shake my head at their ignorance.

I understand how the big cities play well into your interests, but the marginal utility of one over zero is negligible for those things one doesn't care about. I really care very little about the things you mentioned. Most of the things I care about (hiking, skiing, trail running or any kind of running free from most traffic, etc) is not found in those cities, at least not to the degree I prefer. The city isn't for everyone, and not just because of cost.

 

[jjquantz]

My growin'-up place for the first 17 years... until 1954
62 Elder St, Pawtucket, RI 02860 - Zillow

Click on the "view larger"... and note the current value vs the last sale price in 2006. ouch!

Then... go here to Zillow and put in the address of your first home...

Zillow: Real Estate, Apartments, Mortgage & Home Values in the US

Did that a few days ago. Parents bought house in 1964 for $13K and houses in the old neighborhood are listed for about $85K, excluding the foreclosures. Didn't even keep up with the CPI over the last 50 years.

This thread reminds me that I really need to go visit my sister but I just can't stand how depressing it is when I go visit. Run down houses, every other family member on disability, just one sad story after another.

 

[jjquantz]

Preferring a large metropolitan city isn't "exclusive", but there are at least one or two on e-r.org who are very dismissive about "flyover country" and don't seem to understand nor care to try to understand that some people really prefer the lifestyle there....

Most of the things I care about (hiking, skiing, trail running or any kind of running free from most traffic, etc) is not found in those cities, at least not to the degree I prefer. The city isn't for everyone, and not just because of cost.

I guess I haven't been around these parts long enough to have caught onto some of the attitudes.

We've lived in a variety of settings and are still looking for perfection - it's not going to happen. But I recognize that everyone's definition of perfection is different and how each of us determines the trade-offs that we must live with is what makes us unique.

 

[jjquantz]

...
Take your pick. You can set yourself up with the good and skip the most of the bad in either case. I used to live cheap in DC while making city money. Now I live even cheaper in rural TX while making city money. Only a fool buys a life they can't afford in either place. We just spend the hours driving to culture on the weekends that we skip sitting in traffic on weekday mornings.

Been there, done that. We got tired of 8 weekends each year driving 200+ miles to see an opera or a concert. However, at the time it was an acceptable trade-off because we loved raising our daughters in the college town environment.

I have found that, for us, the larger city has been a better fit as we enter retirement. We definitely we would not have been happy raising kids and w*rking in a larger city. But being retired in a city allows you to minimize many of the aggravations while taking advantage of the amenities. Of course, they have to be the amenities that you care about.

 

[Mulligan]

I guess I haven't been around these parts long enough to have caught onto some of the attitudes.

We've lived in a variety of settings and are still looking for perfection - it's not going to happen. But I recognize that everyone's definition of perfection is different and how each of us determines the trade-offs that we must live with is what makes us unique.

And then you another complete different issue of what rural and city is to some people who have not read the official definition of it. My friends and relatives from my home town refer to "the city" that is one about 40 miles away and has 75,000 people in it. Rural to them means the only thing you can see from your house are crops and livestock.


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[rodi]

My growin'-up place for the first 17 years... until 1954
62 Elder St, Pawtucket, RI 02860 - Zillow

Click on the "view larger"... and note the current value vs the last sale price in 2006. ouch!

Then... go here to Zillow and put in the address of your first home...

Zillow: Real Estate, Apartments, Mortgage & Home Values in the US

I did that for the house I lived in till I was 4. 1326 sf... backing up to high voltage power lines (which hurts resale). Zillow says it's worth over $500k. My dad had trouble selling it when we moved to the bigger house - so he had it as a rental. I think he got about $28k for it in the late 60's.

The house he bought (which I now own) was a foreclosure when my dad bought - he assumed the first loan, with no down payment, and the bank wrote off the 2nd loan and the down payment. I think assumed a mortgage of 29k. He sold it to me 11 years ago for $600k - which was current market rate. (I benefited from the prop 13 rate inheritance... not the price.)

Ironically the house he bought was considered to be in the boonies - the very edge of the city of San Diego. Now it's sought after because it's "central". (Fortunately central enough to be well south of the fires this week.)

 

[Accidental Retiree]

Rodi, I am glad to know you're out of the fires area.