Big mistakes in retirement

[haha]

I think nursing is a great career for a young person. But I'm not sure they really make this much money. Maybe in CA. I have two daughters that are 25 and they are both RN's. They make around $55-60K in Texas. Still pretty decent for a young person. Hard to believe CA can double it but maybe so.
Also, I'm not sure the salary growth potential over the years is there for nurses the way it is for business and other professionals. Lots of flexibility and security with nursing though.

The other thing about nursing is that it takes the right kind of person. I don't think the typical guy anyway can put down his beer and videogames and become a nurse. I've had the good luck to have known several female nurses well, and I like them. I regret that I never had the good sense to stay with one of them.

Ha

 

[robnplunder]

I have two daughters that are 25 and they are both RN's. They make around $55-60K in Texas. Still pretty decent for a young person. Hard to believe CA can double it but maybe so.

Experienced RNs in Northern CA are in hot demand. A person I know makes $150k but she works a lot of OT. Even without OT, I think many are making 6 figures easily. But RN job can be pretty stressful (DW was an RN).

 

[rodi]

The other thing about nursing is that it takes the right kind of person. I don't think the typical guy anyway can put down his beer and videogames and become a nurse. I've had the good luck to have known several female nurses well, and I like them. I regret that I never had the good sense to stay with one of them.

Ha

My cousin (female) is a nurse. She was making great money - more than her sheriff deputy husband. He looked around, realized he like the drama/intellectual issues that face an ER nurse - so he went to school and got his RN.

A few years later her brother was facing a career crisis. After 20 years as an engineer at a chip fab, rising through the ranks to middle management, but still doing hands on engineering, he was laid off. He had stopped liking his work years before - but it paid well. He took the opportunity to rethink things - and went back to school to become a nurse. He works primarily in the med-surg ICU. When he feels like he needs more money/challenge, he'll moonlight doing home visits for a hospice service.

Both my cousin-in law (husband) and my male cousin are about as manly as they come. As mentioned, one was law enforcement prior to be a nurse, the other lives on a ranch with livestock and horses, goes 4 wheelin' out in the desert backcountry, etc.

They were both drawn to the intellectual problem solving side of things - which happens in the ER, the ICU, and doing hospice. It helps that they are not skeeved out by blood, guts, protruding bones, etc.

 

[Culture]

Wow! One page into reading that, I think I would have been looking at the "used homes" for sale.

Oh, this is not for residential construction. Here I am talking about building a mid-rise office building.

 

[Meadbh]

My cousin (female) is a nurse. She was making great money - more than her sheriff deputy husband. He looked around, realized he like the drama/intellectual issues that face an ER nurse - so he went to school and got his RN.

A few years later her brother was facing a career crisis. After 20 years as an engineer at a chip fab, rising through the ranks to middle management, but still doing hands on engineering, he was laid off. He had stopped liking his work years before - but it paid well. He took the opportunity to rethink things - and went back to school to become a nurse. He works primarily in the med-surg ICU. When he feels like he needs more money/challenge, he'll moonlight doing home visits for a hospice service.

Both my cousin-in law (husband) and my male cousin are about as manly as they come. As mentioned, one was law enforcement prior to be a nurse, the other lives on a ranch with livestock and horses, goes 4 wheelin' out in the desert backcountry, etc.

were both drawn to the intellectual problem solving side of things - which happens in the ER, the ICU, and doing hospice. It helps that they are not skeeved out by blood, guts, protruding bones, etc.

I worked with many male nurses in the NICU. They were great guys, professionally and personally. One of them had tattoos dating back to his days in the merchant navy. I also know many senior nurses (in Canada) who earn more than $100k per annum. They are either managers with seniority at the top of the pay scale, or in advanced practice roles such as nurse practitioner. Most of them have higher degrees. Some general duty nurses can achieve this kind of income, if they do overtime. Given that hospital and public health nursing positions come with pensions, nursing can be rewarding both financially and personally, and will be in demand for the foreseeable future. Having said that, it is a very demanding profession.

 

[haha]

My cousin (female) is a nurse. She was making great money - more than her sheriff deputy husband. He looked around, realized he like the drama/intellectual issues that face an ER nurse - so he went to school and got his RN.

A few years later her brother was facing a career crisis. After 20 years as an engineer at a chip fab, rising through the ranks to middle management, but still doing hands on engineering, he was laid off. He had stopped liking his work years before - but it paid well. He took the opportunity to rethink things - and went back to school to become a nurse. He works primarily in the med-surg ICU. When he feels like he needs more money/challenge, he'll moonlight doing home visits for a hospice service.

Both my cousin-in law (husband) and my male cousin are about as manly as they come. As mentioned, one was law enforcement prior to be a nurse, the other lives on a ranch with livestock and horses, goes 4 wheelin' out in the desert backcountry, etc.

They were both drawn to the intellectual problem solving side of things - which happens in the ER, the ICU, and doing hospice. It helps that they are not skeeved out by blood, guts, protruding bones, etc.

I was certainly not trying to suggest that male nurses are not "manly". I just know more about female nurses, and mostly from some years back. I also was not talking about those specialized niches that you cite. Another one is anesthesia.

Ha

 

[Chuckanut]

I have had two experiences with nurse practitioners when help was needed, the doctor's office was closed and an emergency room was overkill.

One gave my injured knee an exam that an orthopedic surgeon would be proud of. Another, helped a friend and I was very impressed by his knowledge, professionalism and attitude. At the end, I noticed that his badge said 'Nurse Practitioner" instead of M.D. I was surprised.

They are worth every penny they are paid.

 

[Amethyst]

I don't think just anybody could be a nurse, period. I know I couldn't! Still, with patients getting bigger and bigger, it probably takes 2 burly male nurses to tend to some of them.

Amethyst

Obese patients sent to zoos after being deemed too fat for hospital | Metro News

The other thing about nursing is that it takes the right kind of person. I don't think the typical guy anyway can put down his beer and videogames and become a nurse.

Ha

 

[Walt34]

After reading this thread this headline - 31% of Americans have no retirement savings at all - should be no surprise:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/31-americans-no-retirement-savings-171100676.html

On nurses: One SIL is a retired nurse, a couple of DW's cousins are nurses. It is highly demanding both physically and mentally. Stupid people need not apply.

I had an interesting discussion with a nurse looking after me during my recent hospital stay. It seems the new ones just out of school can have a very hard time finding the first job. This was news to me! But it seems (at least around here anyway) that the first job is hard to get because there is some additional training/certification after nursing school that only the prospective employer can provide and that can cost the employer $60k-$100k depending on the specialty. So of course they want only experienced/currently certified people and only as an act of desperation will they hire one right out of nursing school.

Pay is highly dependent on area of specialty. Experienced in cardiac care can usually break $100k without much of a sweat but others are in the $50k-$70K range.

Now bear in mind too, that around here you can still buy a decent single-family home for just over six figures. It won't be luxurious and will be on the small side - two or three bedrooms, probably one bath, no garage - but still, not in a slum or high-crime area either.

 

[Huston55]

Here's a link to a story on this very subject, and it seems to reflect much of what's been posted thus far.

» Avoid These 6 Retirement-Wrecking Mistakes - Topretirements

 

[Katsmeow]

This is what I want to do; walk away and buy used. However, my wife want the cabinets/counters/tile that SHE wants, not that someone else wanted. She also wants a newly built house, not someone else's "dirty house." ......


We also have the problem that we want a modest (small) house in a very nice neighborhood. The house have planned is half the size of the other houses in the area (one to two mile radius). No houses like we want have come up for sale in over a year of looking.

As I read your post I was trying to figure out where you were building. My recollection from an earlier post of yours a few years ago was that you were playing for something in the area surrounding Houston. Thinking of that, even $160-180 SF is fairly expensive for the suburban counties and over $200 is really a lot.

Location is a big part of it to be sure. The house we were going to build was in Ft. Bend County. The land (1 acre) was very expensive due to the location. Had we built the house we were designing there, the cost per square foot of living space (not including garage and porches) would have been about $160 a SF. I am not a fan of having allowances for things like flooring, appliances, etc. We were working on a design build with a builder and I got lists of the exact flooring and stuff their prices were based upon. I was going to spend more for some items but I knew what they were so there would be no surprises.

The house we ended up buying instead was in Montgomery County, also an acre. The land cost was about half that of the Ft. Bend County house, but we paid only about $100 a SF. And, it is a very nice house about 5 years old when we bought it (I will buy used but want a newer used house).

We knew we would be putting some money into it immediately. After doing that, we ended up at about $110 a SF into it. House is nice with a lot of hardwood floors and great kitchen. We have a major bathroom remodel left and it will still be much less expensive than it would have been to build the other house (even if the land cost had been the same).

There was one house we almost bought that had a kitchen that I really hated and we got a quote before offering for what it would basically cost to gut the kitchen and redo it. It still would have been much less expensive than building new.

 

[Ally]

All these stories of mistakes convince me that our modest way of living is the way to go. My husband retired recently and I will in a little over a year. Our home is not new but we don't owe on it. Our vehicles are older, but nice. We spend money on travel and save a lot. Peace of mind is worth lbym.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[JoeWras]

Interesting discussion on nursing -- didn't expect that on this thread. But that's what I love about these forums. People share.

I knew one fellow who did make mistakes leading up to retirement age and had to start over in order to have any retirement hope. He started over in nursing, at age 45. It worked out very well for him.

And guess what? My cow*rker just quit this week in his early 40's. He's now ER. His wife loves her job and will now support the family. She's a nurse anesthetist. Very rigorous and expensive training after being a practicing nurse for a few years, but it pays very well now.

So, a few themes on things to be careful of in ER:
- don't gamble, day trading or otherwise
- be careful with your housing choices
- take care of yourself to avoid costly illness or death
- know the value of your money, especially if you get "a package" from your work. Will it last?
- stay the course in your investing plan. Be prepared for downturns. Don't panic and sell low, buy high.
- LBYM, LBYM, LBYM. Did I say LBYM?
- know the cost of divorce... if there's a chance, will you stay retired?
- don't count on inheritance

And there's another theme that creeps back before ER:
- Choose your career wisely with a long term view in mind
- Nursing as a career seems to have longevity, but it is not for everyone

 

[athena53]

If I could add one more item to prepare for ER: learn to invest. If it's not your thing, find an advisor you trust. If you make your mistakes early when the pile of money is small, you'll have time to recover. You're also less likely to make big mistakes by jumping into day trading after retirement.

 

[Culture]

As I read your post I was trying to figure out where you were building. My recollection from an earlier post of yours a few years ago was that you were playing for something in the area surrounding Houston. Thinking of that, even $160-180 SF is fairly expensive for the suburban counties and over $200 is really a lot.

We are building in Ft. Bend County. Our builder claims that new construction in the neighborhood is running $150 to $200 per square foot for the house only. We have talked to other people building in the neighborhood (owners) and this number is likely correct. We are currently at $153 for the house only. However, that is not the point, as I told the builder (also a design-build contractor) from day 1 my budget was $120/SF. He assured me we could meet that budget, but has not made any effort to help us meet it, or even let us know it was being exceeded until the design was completely done and all selections made.

At this point he says we can accomplish that, but it will have to be a square, bare, drywall box with a hardy plank exterior, apartment quality carpet floors, fiberglass showers and home depot prefab cabinets .

Interestingly, I tried to get the wife to consider Montgomery County, and we spent a day looking. However, she did not want to leave her community here, which I completely understand. We limited our search to withing 15 miles of our current house.

I apologize if I am ranting, this really has me upset. I also apologize for the partial thread jack.

 

[Amethyst]

Every contractor I've ever dealt with, has based estimates on the cheapest materials. They know that if they base estimates on better stuff, they'll likely lose the bid. The only exception was when we converted our countertops to granite - I took the time to exhaustively research granite prices and types in advance, and could tell the contractors exactly what to base their estimates on.

This year we had to refurbish our master bath in a hurry, due to badly needed shower repairs; I did not have weeks to research tile, grout, fixtures, etc. So naturally we went over budget because we didn't want to use the cheap materials on which all estimates were based. Fortunately we didn't go that much over budget - mostly for nicer tile.

When we had our house built in 1990, and were very naive buyers, the builder presented us with a few options for floors, cabinets, etc. and said "Pick." Turns out, they were all cheap options - on a not-cheap house. We weren't that familiar and didn't know we weren't getting better stuff. The costly landscaping package used the cheapest, crummiest trees and bushes - for example, a Golden Rain tree, which is now considered a weed tree. (All we were told was "you'll get X number of flowering trees" - so of course, we pictured weeping cherries and the like).

We saw what shrewd people do by observing our neighbors, where the wife was a real estate agent. They dickered to get the landscape "allowance" credited back to them, and planted their own landscaping, saving thousands.

Amethyst

We are building in Ft. Bend County. Our builder claims that new construction in the neighborhood is running $150 to $200 per square foot for the house only. We have talked to other people building in the neighborhood (owners) and this number is likely correct. We are currently at $153 for the house only. However, that is not the point, as I told the builder (also a design-build contractor) from day 1 my budget was $120/SF. He assured me we could meet that budget, but has not made any effort to help us meet it, or even let us know it was being exceeded until the design was completely done and all selections made.

At this point he says we can accomplish that, but it will have to be a square, bare, drywall box with a hardy plank exterior, apartment quality carpet floors, fiberglass showers and home depot prefab cabinets .

Interestingly, I tried to get the wife to consider Montgomery County, and we spent a day looking. However, she did not want to leave her community here, which I completely understand. We limited our search to withing 15 miles of our current house.

I apologize if I am ranting, this really has me upset. I also apologize for the partial thread jack.

 

[ERD50]

If I could add one more item to prepare for ER: learn to invest. If it's not your thing, find an advisor you trust. ...

Sounds good on the surface, but there's a Catch-22 aspect to that advice.

How do you determine if the advisor is any good, if you don't know anything about investing? It's been said many times here - once you know enough to evaluate an advisor, you know enough to DIY and avoid the fees and chances of being churned and/or put into inappropriate investments.

Being 'trustworthy' is not enough, I've known people that I felt I could 'trust', but they were totally incompetent in their line of work.

-ERD50

 

[daylatedollarshort]

On some recent repairs work on our house, we were kind of shocked at how dishonest some of the contractors were. A couple told us some areas of the house needed complete rebuilds where there was just minor dry rot. One told us we had termites in a place where there was chipped paint but no structural damage, and it wasn't even a part of the house made of wood. Another guy bid double what the winning bid was, then called back and said if we had a lower bid to let him know what that was and he could work with us. Um, gee thanks, but no, I'd rather go with someone who didn't try to rip me off in the first place, but thanks for calling.

In the end we found a great contractor and we tipped the crew a few hundred dollars extra, in part for offering to do a bunch of little extra stuff not even in the original bid and part simply for restoring our faith in humanity.

 

[athena53]

Sounds good on the surface, but there's a Catch-22 aspect to that advice.

How do you determine if the advisor is any good, if you don't know anything about investing? It's been said many times here - once you know enough to evaluate an advisor, you know enough to DIY and avoid the fees and chances of being churned and/or put into inappropriate investments.

I'd get referrals from someone who knows investments and is happy with theirs. Yes, I would fall into that category. Call me crazy, but most of my assets are at a major brokerage with an advisor. (I do have $400K in a "sandbox" at Fidelity that I manage myself.) I appreciate his viewpoints and his research. He's talked me off the wall a couple of times when I wanted to get out of something (he was right that I should stay in) and he prides himself on calling to touch base when the market is down.

And I do not consider "My niece who just got a degree in Art History and works at Ameriprise" to be a referral!

 

[hakuna matata]

We avoided a big mistake on a house as well. We own 5 acres nearby and as an Architect I designed a beautiful (in my humble opinion!) home for the property. This was in 2009-2010, so we figured we would get good pricing from subs, etc. The bid came in higher than we had anticipated but still within our range (albeit the top end), however the appraisal to get the construction loan was way low, which would have required us to come up with a much bigger downpayment. We opted to NOT build.

We both we pretty unhappy, but on a whim, we started just looking at houses for sale. Found our current house, which was very similar in design to the one I had designed--but a half the cost of it. What we didn't like about this house was all cosmetic, and once we sold our old home, we used part of the equity to bring this house to where we wanted it to be.

Funny thing is our Contractor that was going to build our new home, did the work on this house. After we finished he and I were sitting around and he told me I made the right decision. He said in that market he couldn't have built the house I purchased for what I had paid for it. So the smart move was to do buy and fix, rather than build new.

Looking back I am glad we didn't build that other house. We LOVE our house and our neighborhood and neighbors.

 

[Jack_Pine]

I don't see it as such, but some people think getting a puppy three years into retirement would be a mistake both for the cost and the restrictions on our ability to just take off.

Guess we are in trouble. We will enter RE with two and probably replace the GSD. That would be our last big dog though.

 

[ERD50]

I'd get referrals from someone who knows investments and is happy with theirs. ...

You are just pushing the problem out one degree and adding a variable and complication - how do you know that person knows investments?

Rather than just evaluating the advisor, now you have to evaluate the person evaluating the advisor, and you need to be right twice! I've seen a lot of people refer their advisor to others, because he/she is a 'nice' guy/gal. That doesn't cut the mustard.

Call me crazy, but most of my assets are at a major brokerage with an advisor. ... He's talked me off the wall a couple of times when I wanted to get out of something (he was right that I should stay in) and he prides himself on calling to touch base when the market is down.

Please do not take any offense in this, I am just making a general observation - but I would say that if you are ready to jump out of an investment at 'the wrong time', you have not yet learned enough about investing to DIY or to select an advisor.

DIY with a reasonable AA you are comfortable with and re-balancing (or not) solves all these issues for you. There is no decision to be made to get in/out, your AA determines that for you. And studies show it to be more productive than most advisors, due to drag of fees/commissions.

-ERD50

 

[rodi]

On some recent repairs work on our house, we were kind of shocked at how dishonest some of the contractors were. A couple told us some areas of the house needed complete rebuilds where there was just minor dry rot. One told us we had termites in a place where there was chipped paint but no structural damage, and it wasn't even a part of the house made of wood. Another guy bid double what the winning bid was, then called back and said if we had a lower bid to let him know what that was and he could work with us. Um, gee thanks, but no, I'd rather go with someone who didn't try to rip me off in the first place, but thanks for calling.

In the end we found a great contractor and we tipped the crew a few hundred dollars extra, in part for offering to do a bunch of little extra stuff not even in the original bid and part simply for restoring our faith in humanity.

I can relate to the first paragraph. We hired someone who then tried to jack up prices, get paid prior to work delivered (illegal in CA), and generally act in ways that freaked us out. It came to legal blows and he is no longer licensed.

The contractor that picked up where we left off stayed *just* this side of the law - but at the end slapped us with a lien for us NOT paying for work that was never delivered. (We refused to pay for something we didn't get - go figure.) Again, we had to get lawyers involved.

We've vowed to never hire a general contractor again. We've had good experience hiring subs ourselves, though. But we want to be involved in making sure that we pay the specialty subs ourselves - have the contract with them (not with an intermediary) so we have direct recourse if things are delivered that are in the contract... and so we can make sure that the money we pay goes to the subcontractor who does the work. (That was rumored to be an issue with one of our contractors for another client.)

I will say - the whole experience made me hyper aware that arbitration is not consumer friendly (if the opposing party refuses to pay their side of the fees you're left in the wind with little recourse), that you need to check, double check, triple check the licenses, court records, public records (do they slap a lot of mechanics liens) before ever hiring a contractor.

 

[aja8888]

When I lived in SoCal I contracted to have a pool installed by Blue Haven pools. Before the job was finished, an electrician slapped a lien on my house for non-payment by Blue Haven.

I went to the Blue Haven office and sat there waiting for the Blue Haven rep who was handling the install to show up (they wouldn't call him to let him know I was looking for him). When he finally showed up, I told him he needed to pay his electrician now or he "wished he would have". Once he paid him. I closed the contract and finished the pool using contractors I selected (gunnite, concrete decking, plumbing). So I got a new pool for 3/4 the price.

One thing I found out was that pool contractors are pretty low on the totem pole of contractors. Next house we bought, I installed the pool acting as my own GC.

Now we are at the point where a pool is an expense we don't need anymore but it was great when the kids were growing up.

 

[Chuckanut]

After we finished he and I were sitting around and he told me I made the right decision. He said in that market he couldn't have built the house I purchased for what I had paid for it.

On a similar note, I recently read an article on fire insurance for one's home. The writer (a consumer advocate type) was warning that one should not use the current value of the structure to estimate the amount of insurance needed to rebuild a home. In his opinion, the cost of rebuilding a structure is usually greater than what the structure would sell for in most markets. Part of that is rebuilding to the newer building codes, but much of it was just the cost of material and labor itself. In other words, insure for more than the sale price of the structure. YMMV.