Choosing new warm, lower cost-of-living, place to move

[misshathaway]

I've been through the existing move / downsize threads but they seem to be focused on the move itself and afterward. I am wondering if anybody here has gone through the research process to move to a new location based on some criteria.

I am single. I don't have any relatives except in CA where the cost of living is actually higher than what I have now in MA. So I would be moving to an area with no ties. I plan to take the advice of renting first, and possibly renting my current house out as well.

Has anybody done what I am describing as a single person? I know there are tons of web resources on cost-of-living, quality-of-life, climate. I am more interested in how you narrowed down the list, picked one, and ultimately how happy you were with the result.

I am in the middle of reading "Thinking Fast and Slow" which is all about decision making and the tons of unconscious biases that can make it irrational. I think it is making me more deliberate about this decision.

 

[braumeister]

I would recommend doing a good bit of travel, if you haven't already.

Looking at those ranked lists of cities based on climate, COL, etc. I can very quickly determine their biases and fallacies based on my own (even very brief) visits to them.

 

[jabbahop]

Maybe visiting areas where old friends or relatives live might give you ideas on what feels better or worse. I know we found our spot when my wife visited a good friend. It would have never been on our list before the visit which changed a couple of our criteria.

 

[iac1003]

My friend moved here to the Austin area from NYC not knowing anyone but me. She moved to a suburb 45 minutes away and was not well-suited to it. Her house is now up for sale.

If you want warm, choose well. It gets pretty cold in Central Texas in the winter and brutally hot in the summer. We are headed for a warmer climate year-round now.

Try to find a place where you can meet people with similar interests, political views if that's important to you and a pleasant place that suits your needs. We found Austin to not be a very walkable city with little good public transportation and it is a young person's town although there are activities for older retired people through the University of Texas.

I would definitely visit a place several times and take some extended vacations before jumping in including renting via Homeaway or Airbnb to get a feel for different residential areas.

Good luck!


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[Sunset]

We are in this process of deciding, a bit on hold due to some obligations at the moment.
I view it as a long term thing, meaning if it takes two years to decide, that is fine as I certainly don't want to rush the decision and regret it later.
Even moving to a rental is a big chore so I really want to minimize my moves.

We have so far based our target spots on State taxes, then services (hospitals/healthcare) and weather.

We took a trip to FL where we have been before, but this time toured around some places to looking at living there. It made me realize we really need to travel to all the locations and even at that, it will be unlikely we will find the "best" place for us, as our choices/viewings will be so limited.

 

[AllDone]

For state taxes, don't forget to look at what is taxed. Is food taxed? Is social security taxed? Are pensions taxed? The comparison charts in Forbes, etc. always look at top income tax rate, but most retirees won't pay that. My parents moved to a "low tax" state and discovered that property taxes were higher, food was taxed at the grocery store, social security was taxed, home and car insurance was higher, and Medicare supplements were more expensive. It was a wash financially and the winters were cold.

 

[rodi]

Housing is the most expensive part of COL in CA... and it is based on location. Have you looked at inland areas of CA? For example - there's a big difference between living in La Jolla and living in Jamul. In the same county - but significantly different cost of livings.

Since you won't be tied to a job - you can pick someplace that is further out/inland - without worrying about the commute.

 

[photoguy]

I'm not a single but I am going through this process right now. We are visiting different cities/areas in the US on our list, staying for a longer time, and seeing if we like it. I'm not sure that being single changes much? maybe more weight on dating and no need to compromise with spouse.

Cost of living in CA is high but this is almost entirely due to cost of housing. If you control housing, CA is not necessarily more expensive than midwest. It's possible to find less expensive housing in CA but you will get "less for your money" than in other areas. Also CA state taxes are very progressive, so if your income is lower it can be better than other states.

Our big problem is analysis paralysis. We have so much choice available that it's hard to make a decision. I suspect we would be happy with any of our top choices but there's always a nagging feeling that we might make a wrong decision (or the other place would be better). Some locations we visited and we knew right away that we didn't like it even though it might seem good on paper.

In terms of narrowing down the list, we found some locations totally dominate others. E.g. for us, we decided the colorado front range dominates all other places from the mid-west to the pacific coast. But it's hard to choose between mountains and the beaches.

 

[AllDone]

Yes, housing is expensive in California, but property taxes are fixed. Gasoline is expensive, but heating and cooling expenses are low. Health insurance premiums in SoCal under the ACA rose by less than 2% this year. It's a very complex equation.

If it were up to me, I'd go to Portland, but the spouse says "no". You can always rent for a year or two (or more!) and see how you do.

Less expensive places to consider in SoCal; Ventura county, Temecula, Fallbrook, Valley Center.

 

[aaronc879]

If you don't want cold winters and you don't want CA then your choices are limited to southern Arizona, southern Texas, and mid to southern Florida. All of those places are extremely hot in the summer so make sure you visit in the summer to see if you can handle the heat before you commit to a long-term rental or purchase.

 

[kneehigh]

I would say take inventory of who you are. Do you like warm weather, outdoor activities like hiking, cultural diversity, social and group involvement such as church group or seniors' center, college environment, immersed in the middle of a metropolitan experience, proximity of shops, etc. I think it's more important to do an introspection and examine your likes and dislikes before checking into your environmental factors. It's kind of like planting the roses in the best possible spot, if you happen to be a rose. Then visit those possible places where you think you might bloom. Only you can ultimately judge what's right for you, because another person's "perfect dirt place" is not necessarily for you.

 

[Accidental Retiree]

Yes, housing is expensive in California, but property taxes are fixed. Gasoline is expensive, but heating and cooling expenses are low. Health insurance premiums in SoCal under the ACA rose by less than 2% this year. It's a very complex equation.

If it were up to me, I'd go to Portland, but the spouse says "no". You can always rent for a year or two (or more!) and see how you do.

Less expensive places to consider in SoCal; Ventura county, Temecula, Fallbrook, Valley Center.

Add to the Temecula area the cities of Murrieta and Menifee.


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[pb4uski]

Have you looked at Find Your Spot? You input info you your interests and desires and it provides a list of places for you to consider. A good first step.

 

[AllDone]

Also, you might want to look at Albuquerque. It's cold, but sunny in the winter, not as hot as AZ in the summer and cheap housing.

 

[38Chevy454]

Also, you might want to look at Albuquerque. It's cold, but sunny in the winter, not as hot as AZ in the summer and cheap housing.

Go further south if you want to stay warmer. ABQ may not get much snow in the city, but it does get below freezing a lot in winter. Nice thing though it does not get many days above 100 in summer either. Although 90's are pretty common summer temps, but with the low humidity most of the time it is a lot more tolerable than 90's in southeast. With the sun mentioned, even normal winter day in 40's is quite nice.

I look at it as just about anywhere you live will have 2-3 months of not so nice weather. Either summer is too hot, or winter is too cold. Only some areas of southern end of CA have good for most of the year. But then you have to put with liberal CA and all the gov't regulations and taxes, which is a personal choice.

Back to OP's question, some areas of AZ north of Phoenix, but south of Flagstaff in the mountains have a decent 4 season climate that is not too extreme in any season. AZ has some decent retiree benefits for taxes.

 

[Options]

I've lived in CA most of my life and don't recommend it. I disagree the COL in CA is due simply to housing. Everything is more expensive here: food, sales tax, gasoline. If you travel anywhere within CA from the cities mentioned above you will live your life around traffic, even if you're only trying to drive out of CA. All the major freeway arteries in CA are jammed, even at off peak hours. Crime is way up in CA, particularly in the major cities. In certain areas of Los Angeles--even the "good" parts--FBI Part I crimes have taken off.

I intend to leave here within the next five years and will never return except to visit family who don't have the sense to leave the Bay Area. I personally think people live in CA, get used to it, and don't realize a better quality of life exists elsewhere. YMMV.

 

[RAE]

I look at it as just about anywhere you live will have 2-3 months of not so nice weather. Either summer is too hot, or winter is too cold.

Yep, exactly right. Which is why we choose to live most of the year in the Midwest, but snowbird to the Gulf coast for a few months each winter. That is the best solution to the weather issue for us. We rent the house on the Gulf coast, which works well, as the cost is very reasonable and we are not necessarily tied to going back to the same spot every winter, if we find another location we want to try.

 

[W2R]

I would say take inventory of who you are. Do you like warm weather, outdoor activities like hiking, cultural diversity, social and group involvement such as church group or seniors' center, college environment, immersed in the middle of a metropolitan experience, proximity of shops, etc. I think it's more important to do an introspection and examine your likes and dislikes before checking into your environmental factors. It's kind of like planting the roses in the best possible spot, if you happen to be a rose. Then visit those possible places where you think you might bloom. Only you can ultimately judge what's right for you, because another person's "perfect dirt place" is not necessarily for you.

What a great post! I was going to say something along these lines, but you said it so beautifully. I'll just say, "+1".

 

[irishgal]

I've lived in CA most of my life and don't recommend it. I disagree the COL in CA is due simply to housing. Everything is more expensive here: food, sales tax, gasoline. If you travel anywhere within CA from the cities mentioned above you will live your life around traffic, even if you're only trying to drive out of CA. All the major freeway arteries in CA are jammed, even at off peak hours. Crime is way up in CA, particularly in the major cities. In certain areas of Los Angeles--even the "good" parts--FBI Part I crimes have taken off.

I intend to leave here within the next five years and will never return except to visit family who don't have the sense to leave the Bay Area. I personally think people live in CA, get used to it, and don't realize a better quality of life exists elsewhere. YMMV.

I totally agree with you. I was born and raised in Newport Beach and lived most of my life in Orange County.
IMO the inland areas are an armpit, and I've known a few people who moved to Riverside or San Bernardino counties thinking they would be better than the east coast cold- only to bail out a couple of years later back to their previous location.
But- some people still love living there and swear they will never leave despite the traffic, crowding, taxes etc.

Good luck OP!


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[Accidental Retiree]

I totally agree with you. I was born and raised in Newport Beach and lived most of my life in Orange County.
IMO the inland areas are an armpit, and I've known a few people who moved to Riverside or San Bernardino counties thinking they would be better than the east coast cold- only to bail out a couple of years later back to their previous location.
But- some people still love living there and swear they will never leave despite the traffic, crowding, taxes etc.

Good luck OP!


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I live in SW Riverside County, and it doesn't look or feel very armpitty to me,
but it's not Newport or OC, that's for certain.

I have lived in and seen other places in other states that are way worse than anyplace
I've seen out here in this area.

However, those places are home to some people, so I try not to disparage those places.
No place is perfect.




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[photoguy]

I've lived in CA most of my life and don't recommend it. I disagree the COL in CA is due simply to housing. Everything is more expensive here: food, sales tax, gasoline.

In the past 2 years, I've done a fair amount of food shopping in various mid-west and western states and haven't found any significant differences in food (grocery) prices from CA.

Sales Tax is high in CA (8-10%) but lots of other states have rates that are close. I paid ~7% in Iowa, 8-9% in Colorado, 8% in santa fe. It came as a total shock to me, but I actually had to pay sales tax on groceries in Colorado.

Gasoline is indeed very expensive in CA. I just did a CA to Iowa drive and prices were running $2.50 gal in CA (at costco) when I left to a low of $1.60 (somewhere in missouri as I recall). The most I paid in CA recently was over $4/gallon but this was in a remote area (not on an interstate).

If you travel anywhere within CA from the cities mentioned above you will live your life around traffic, even if you're only trying to drive out of CA. All the major freeway arteries in CA are jammed, even at off peak hours.

I never really had a problem off peak hours in the bay area, orange county, or san diego. Yes you can run into traffic at all times but it is mostly a minor issue in my experience (outside of rush hour). LA however is a different story (worst traffic in US/Canada) and I have run into bad jams (due to volume not accidents) at all times including at midnight, 5AM, weekends, etc. LA is the only city in CA where the traffic is bad enough that I consider it a strong negative (as a retiree who can run errands during the off-peak hours).

I intend to leave here within the next five years and will never return except to visit family who don't have the sense to leave the Bay Area. I personally think people live in CA, get used to it, and don't realize a better quality of life exists elsewhere. YMMV.

Better quality of life is so subjective. I think it's more probable that the people who live in CA and like it just have a different set of criteria.

 

[Options]

In the past 2 years, I've done a fair amount of food shopping in various mid-west and western states and haven't found any significant differences in food (grocery) prices from CA.

Sales Tax is high in CA (8-10%) but lots of other states have rates that are close. I paid ~7% in Iowa, 8-9% in Colorado, 8% in santa fe. It came as a total shock to me, but I actually had to pay sales tax on groceries in Colorado.

Gasoline is indeed very expensive in CA. I just did a CA to Iowa drive and prices were running $2.50 gal in CA (at costco) when I left to a low of $1.60 (somewhere in missouri as I recall). The most I paid in CA recently was over $4/gallon but this was in a remote area (not on an interstate).

I never really had a problem off peak hours in the bay area, orange county, or san diego. Yes you can run into traffic at all times but it is mostly a minor issue in my experience (outside of rush hour). LA however is a different story (worst traffic in US/Canada) and I have run into bad jams (due to volume not accidents) at all times including at midnight, 5AM, weekends, etc. LA is the only city in CA where the traffic is bad enough that I consider it a strong negative (as a retiree who can run errands during the off-peak hours).

Better quality of life is so subjective. I think it's more probable that the people who live in CA and like it just have a different set of criteria.

This is incorrect and provides quite the wrong impression, IMO. Traffic: in and out of San Diego is a nightmare (the 8, I believe). The 5 through all the way up the center of the state can be a quagmire; the 99 in and out of the central valley is a mess; the 15 in and out of CA into NV is another mess; the 5 into Orange County is a horror to drive, and the 405 has been called a parking lot for at least 20 years. The 101 in the Bay Area has traffic even worse than SoCal, and the 280 there is no longer safe from traffic. These are all major arteries within CA and I've only touched on a few (I've driven them all). Driving is always measured in time, never distance.

There is no such thing as off-peak hours in Los Angeles. Many people here "work" in entertainment and all stores are crowded regardless of the time of day (one of my biggest surprises/disappointments since retirement). The density factor in much of this state is unreal. Try going to Disneyland between Xmas and New Year's to get an idea of the degree of overpopulation in CA.

Gas prices for all grades were over $4 in Los Angeles last year with Premium leading the pack at over $4.50 per gallon. Sales tax is over 10% in parts of LA County, not 8%. Yes, property taxes are capped, but all other taxes more than make up for any advantages.

I agree quality of life is subjective, but I've yet to come up with a good reason for any sane retiree to locate to CA. YMMV.

 

[Midpack]

I am wondering if anybody here has gone through the research process to move to a new location based on some criteria.

I plan to take the advice of renting first, and possibly renting my current house out as well.

I know there are tons of web resources on cost-of-living, quality-of-life, climate. I am more interested in how you narrowed down the list, picked one, and ultimately how happy you were with the result.

I'm not sure what the question is, you've identified all the resources I used, so your issue is just making the decision?

• Using online and library resources, we generated a list of 10-20 based on COL and climate, but also city size/proximity, cultural activities, airports, health care resources, outdoor activities/distance to water, crie/safety, religion/politics, education, economic/jib growth, and taxes.
• We reviewed each carefully to narrow the list to the 3-5 that best fit our criteria.
• Researched the short list further but talking at length with locals online.
• Then we visited our top choice(s) to make a final decision, picking the worst time(s) of year.
• Even then we plan to rent for 6-12 months, before selling out home, to make sure.

As for making a decision, we just took as long as needed to satisfy ourselves at each step.

 

[Turn_the_Page]

What do you consider cold? You live in MA, right? I'm going to argue that some of the posts about cold are a bit off-base.

I live in South Texas, but have also lived in the upper midwest. What the natives in both areas consider cold is a LOT different.

I'm a Texan, so I'll only comment on what I know. Central Texas is hot and it's also somewhat cold. Not that cold for a MA person, I would argue. I grew up in Waco and yes it might get down to 15 degrees for a few nights a year. Snow maybe every 5 years.

I'd suggest that you really nail down the climate that works for you.

For us, much of the discussion is around "how much do we want to drive to do things". Austin is great, but no way am I living 30-40 minutes out in the suburbs and then driving to the University to attend something. Not an option for anything other than a really special event.

"Analysis Paralysis" is a problem for us. We've always moved for work and this 'forced our hand' so to speak. Now we can live anywhere. Wow, what a concept.

 

[zinger1457]

If you don't want cold winters and you don't want CA then your choices are limited to southern Arizona, southern Texas, and mid to southern Florida. All of those places are extremely hot in the summer so make sure you visit in the summer to see if you can handle the heat before you commit to a long-term rental or purchase.

I wouldn't say 'all of them' are extremely hot in the summer. Unless your desire is to live in a big city (Tucson or Phoenix) there are areas in Arizona at higher elevations where the temperatures rarely reach 100 during the summer time.