Ecuador or Bust

[Zoocat]

Well, it sounds to me like you need to go directly to this website. Lots of info about reducing expenses here at home and also living in various countries. Plus, the website authors are a charming and friendly couple.
Retire Early Lifestyle

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

We spent some time a few years ago looking at eventually living in some other countries some day when we're old empty nesters. Hey Nords, bet you never thought about escaping to another country once your daughter went off to college?

We looked at several communities in several south american countries...what we found was that most of them werent much cheaper than well established places like Lake Chapala in Mexico. Focusing on that, it seemed that the quality and availability of goods and services, english language stuff, and in particular crime and its associated quality of life were potentially very big issues.

If you look around the US, you can easily find very low cost places to live with similar crime and QOL "issues", a short distance from major metropolitan areas, and you dont have to mess around with problems with insurance, taxes, residency requirements and so forth.

I think a lot of people who would never consider living in a crime ridden US locale where they're a 'minority' wipe a lot of that negativity away when they look at foreign countries using a cloth soaked in the romance of living in a foreign land. Remember that in a lot of these places you can be robbed by bandits if you drive too far from town, and its not unusual for the local cops to stop you for nothing and ask for a bribe to be on your way...

Heck, if you're looking for the feeling of living in a foreign country with a lot of people speaking other languages, you can get that too!

 

[Bestwifeever]

NOt to mention a little different kind of robbery--we lived in Central America for a few years while I was young and I remember my parents having to pay a little consideration a few times to officials for things such as licenses.... Not judging that, just thinking that could make life there either cheaper (pay an official who then waives the fee) or more expensive (pay an official plus pay the fee).

 

[Nords]

We spent some time a few years ago looking at eventually living in some other countries some day when we're old empty nesters. Hey Nords, bet you never thought about escaping to another country once your daughter went off to college?

You know we'd have to wait until the bunny went to his great reward before we'd truly be empty nesters! Either that or we'd have to find a long-term [-]bunny[/-]housesitter.

We've lived all over the world before becoming parents, and we're looking forward to doing it again afterward... under slightly better living & liberty conditions!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Need a recipe for rabbit stew?

 

[AlmostThere]

If you look around the US, you can easily find very low cost places to live with similar crime and QOL "issues", a short distance from major metropolitan areas, and you dont have to mess around with problems with insurance, taxes, residency requirements and so forth.

I think a lot of people who would never consider living in a crime ridden US locale where they're a 'minority' wipe a lot of that negativity away when they look at foreign countries using a cloth soaked in the romance of living in a foreign land. Remember that in a lot of these places you can be robbed by bandits if you drive too far from town, and its not unusual for the local cops to stop you for nothing and ask for a bribe to be on your way...

Heck, if you're looking for the feeling of living in a foreign country with a lot of people speaking other languages, you can get that too! [/QUOTE]

I'm sure you've read that the U.S. will be less than 50% white by 2050. May be sooner. If that's the trend, why not look elsewhere if that's what you can afford? I've lived all over the U.S. with my job. Some places considered highly desirable too such as Connecticut, Seattle, Santa Fe, Central Florida. Doesn't matter how wonderful a place is if you can't afford to do anything.

This forum is dedicated to being financially independent. Is that only for those who make alot of money and are young enough to enjoy it? Are you saying those with limited means should just accept their lot in life and work themselves into the ground to serve those more deserving of the good life?

I've found that any place in the American West that's desirable due to it's climate and/or scenery is too expensive to live in on my budget. I like Ecuador because it is affordable, with great scenery and weather. If safety was my major concern, then Argentina, Chile, and Uruguay have lower crime rates than the U.S.. Don't kid yourself, the U.S. has enough problems to make a number of countries viable alternatives.

Regards,
Wade

 

[Urchina]

Was this town named by a Spanish linguist?!?

Um, I think it was named by the same linguist who named Bath, England "Bath."

Banos is a natural-hot-springs town (and boy, I mean, HOT, like 120F hot). There's also a really pretty church there dedicated to the Virgin of... I forget, most of her miracles seemed to be saving people from falls into abyssal Andean canyons. There were also lots of kids pulling taffy at shops and plenty of guinea pig-on-a-stick (roasted, whole. We tried to get it chopped up, rabbit-style, but couldn't, so I can't tell you what it tastes like. Eating a largish rodent, whole, on a stick, was just too much for me. Especially since I had guinea pigs as pets as a kid).

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Are you saying those with limited means should just accept their lot in life and work themselves into the ground to serve those more deserving of the good life?

Wow, I dont think I said anything like that.

I said if you dont mind crime and living in a 2nd world country in exchange for low cost of living, you can get that right here. And still have the benefits of a 1st world country.

Crime stats are pretty funny things because you sort of need to weed out what you want.

What you want isnt what the crime rate is for an ecuadorean against another ecuadorean, you want the crime rates of the average ecuadorean vs a wealthy white american that just moved into town.

I've read plenty about people in the nicer americanized areas in mexico having their cars and homes regularly broken into, getting mugged and having to pay bribes with an unpleasant regularity. Sounds like some of the lousier areas near LA.

 

[haha]

What you want isnt what the crime rate is for an ecuadorean against another ecuadorean, you want the crime rates of the average ecuadorean vs a wealthy white american that just moved into town.

To anyone who has lived for an extended period in a third world country this would be obvious.

But what we have here is a guy who is reading and dreaming of escape; just as I read the Whole Earth Catalog in 1971 and dreamed of living in a house made of straw that I would build for $50. Little did I realize that living at Venice Beach in a bungalow made of concrete block was infinitely superior and with fewer mice.

It will likely work out fine for him, things usually do.

Ha

 

[AlmostThere]

Wow, I dont think I said anything like that.

I said if you dont mind crime and living in a 2nd world country in exchange for low cost of living, you can get that right here. And still have the benefits of a 1st world country.

Crime stats are pretty funny things because you sort of need to weed out what you want.

What you want isnt what the crime rate is for an ecuadorean against another ecuadorean, you want the crime rates of the average ecuadorean vs a wealthy white american that just moved into town.

I've read plenty about people in the nicer americanized areas in mexico having their cars and homes regularly broken into, getting mugged and having to pay bribes with an unpleasant regularity. Sounds like some of the lousier areas near LA.

What you seem to be saying is that living in poorer countries is the equivalent of living in crime infested areas of large American cities. As if no one from the U.S. can safely live there, especially if he's white. The State Department says there are currently 10,000 Americans living in Ecuador. Where are all the Americans fleeing in droves due to all the violence against them? Does violence happen? Sure, there was a murder of an American in Manta, Ecuador about a week ago. There are parts of Ecuador known for crime and violence. But not everywhere, and most of the Andes region is safer than the lowlands. I'm not looking thru rose colored glasses. But bottom line, living in the Andes is infinitely better than living in a city slum.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

What you seem to be saying is that living in poorer countries is the equivalent of living in crime infested areas of large American cities. As if no one from the U.S. can safely live there, especially if he's white.

I didnt say either of those things.

I think you're too effectively wired to counter criticism of the idea to accept the constructive aspects of it. Is there a point in asking for peoples perspective on your idea if you arent going to listen?

For the record, what I said is that there are plenty of inexpensive places to live in the US where you'd experience similar potential quality of life, both good and bad. And that a relatively well to do foreigner in south america might have a little more trouble with the locals than another local would. Which renders the usual crime stats irrelevant.

Good luck with your plan. It looks grossly undercapitalized even for low expectations in a cheap country. My expectation is that this wont work out very well for you.

 

[AlmostThere]

To anyone who has lived for an extended period in a third world country this would be obvious.

But what we have here is a guy who is reading and dreaming of escape; just as I read the Whole Earth Catalog in 1971 and dreamed of living in a house made of straw that I would build for $50. Little did I realize that living at Venice Beach in a bungalow made of concrete block was infinitely superior and with fewer mice.

It will likely work out fine for him, things usually do.

Ha

Well thanks for editing the Darwin remark. Did you know that Walmart and Sam's Club are all over Mexico, as well as most American fast food chains? In Guatemala City are many nice malls, and Quetzaltenango, Guatemala's 2nd largest city, has a mall with a 5 screen multiplex. Wendy's just opened there too. Ecuador has a chain of large supermarkets called Super-Maxi where you can get many American food products. Have you ever seen Panama City? More developed than Miami and an international banking center. Buenos Aires is called the most European city in the world outside of Europe and since their monetary collapse is probably the world's best big city bargain. High quality at low cost. While many Americans assume Latin Americans are mostly living in squalor, they've moved on. Sure, still plenty of poverty in many places. But the middle class is growing and life there is fine if you have enough income. When I'm in my solidly built home watching DirecTV and surfing the internet, I'll be thinking I could be doing this in the States for 3 times more money. And that'll be after watching the latest American blockbuster at the Cinemark multi-plex(American owned) and enjoying a nice restaurant meal for $15 for my wife and I.

 

[haha]

Well thanks for editing the Darwin remark. Did you know that Walmart and Sam's Club are all over Mexico, as well as most American fast food chains? In Guatemala City are many nice malls, and Quetzaltenango, Guatemala's 2nd largest city, has a mall with a 5 screen multiplex. Wendy's just opened there too. Ecuador has a chain of large supermarkets called Super-Maxi where you can get many American food products. Have you ever seen Panama City? More developed than Miami and an international banking center. Buenos Aires is called the most European city in the world outside of Europe and since their monetary collapse is probably the world's best big city bargain. High quality at low cost. While many Americans assume Latin Americans are mostly living in squalor, they've moved on. Sure, still plenty of poverty in many places. But the middle class is growing and life there is fine if you have enough income. When I'm in my solidly built home watching DirecTV and surfing the internet, I'll be thinking I could be doing this in the States for 3 times more money. And that'll be after watching the latest American blockbuster at the Cinemark multi-plex(American owned) and enjoying a nice restaurant meal for $15 for my wife and I.

Hey, have a ball.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Confirmation bias.

 

[Nords]

Need a recipe for rabbit stew?

... and plenty of guinea pig-on-a-stick (roasted, whole).

Thanks, I think I'm just going to try to adapt one...

 

[Urchina]

Well thanks for editing the Darwin remark. Did you know that Walmart and Sam's Club are all over Mexico, as well as most American fast food chains? In Guatemala City are many nice malls, and Quetzaltenango, Guatemala's 2nd largest city, has a mall with a 5 screen multiplex. Wendy's just opened there too. Ecuador has a chain of large supermarkets called Super-Maxi where you can get many American food products. Have you ever seen Panama City? More developed than Miami and an international banking center. Buenos Aires is called the most European city in the world outside of Europe and since their monetary collapse is probably the world's best big city bargain. High quality at low cost. While many Americans assume Latin Americans are mostly living in squalor, they've moved on. Sure, still plenty of poverty in many places. But the middle class is growing and life there is fine if you have enough income. When I'm in my solidly built home watching DirecTV and surfing the internet, I'll be thinking I could be doing this in the States for 3 times more money. And that'll be after watching the latest American blockbuster at the Cinemark multi-plex(American owned) and enjoying a nice restaurant meal for $15 for my wife and I.

AT, if what you're looking for is an American lifestyle at a cheaper price, I think you're doing yourself and your prospective host countries a disservice. Part of the joy of being an expat is adapting to the differences of your new home, and a lot of this will mean NOT living an American lifestyle. It will mean living more like the people in the country you select live. In Ecuador you can have a very comfortable middle-class lifestyle for much less than you can in the States, but remember that the Ecuadorean middle class is different in behavior, attitudes and expenditures than the American middle class. If you want a "rich" lifestyle, it'll cost you in Ecuador just as it does here, though differently (for example, you can be "rich" here and not feel OBLIGATED to have armed security guards at your home, which is encircled with a 7-foot masonry wall topped by broken glass and/or razor wire. You should see the fortresses some people live in in Quito, and not just in the dicey neighborhoods, either).

If the two worlds were the same, everyone would be moving to Ecuador, or Panama, or Buenos Aires to enjoy a U.S. lifestyle for less. Fact is, they aren't, and the lifestyles are different, too.

Just something to keep in mind as you prepare for leaving. Culture shock is real and can be very difficult to deal with. I'm especially concerned about your soon-to-be wife -- leaving her home in the Phillipines, getting married, and moving to a very different climate and country would be very difficult, and I don't know if there's a sizable Filipino expat community in Ecuador for her to bond with.

 

[AlmostThere]

AT, if what you're looking for is an American lifestyle at a cheaper price, I think you're doing yourself and your prospective host countries a disservice. Part of the joy of being an expat is adapting to the differences of your new home, and a lot of this will mean NOT living an American lifestyle. It will mean living more like the people in the country you select live. In Ecuador you can have a very comfortable middle-class lifestyle for much less than you can in the States, but remember that the Ecuadorean middle class is different in behavior, attitudes and expenditures than the American middle class. If you want a "rich" lifestyle, it'll cost you in Ecuador just as it does here, though differently (for example, you can be "rich" here and not feel OBLIGATED to have armed security guards at your home, which is encircled with a 7-foot masonry wall topped by broken glass and/or razor wire. You should see the fortresses some people live in in Quito, and not just in the dicey neighborhoods, either).

If the two worlds were the same, everyone would be moving to Ecuador, or Panama, or Buenos Aires to enjoy a U.S. lifestyle for less. Fact is, they aren't, and the lifestyles are different, too.

Just something to keep in mind as you prepare for leaving. Culture shock is real and can be very difficult to deal with. I'm especially concerned about your soon-to-be wife -- leaving her home in the Phillipines, getting married, and moving to a very different climate and country would be very difficult, and I don't know if there's a sizable Filipino expat community in Ecuador for her to bond with.

Just to give you an idea, I've looked at this from every angle for 10 years now. In preparation I've lived in several places on the Mexican border, taking advantage of my company's transfer policy. I've lived in small studio apartments, and currently live in a travel trailer in a RV park. In the last 10 years I've only owned a car for 2 of them. I've used 2 scooters for transportation, and for the last 2 months have used a bicycle exclusively. I have no intention of living an American luxury lifestyle, but by Ecuadorean standards I'll be comfortable. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, won't go "native". But I will be respectful, and learn local customs, and my income will be spent in their economy. Your points are well taken. Filipinas are all over the world working. Their lives in the Philippines are very difficult. It's my goal while I'm alive to get her set up for after I'm gone.

You're right, not everyone is moving to Latin America or Asia. I really didn't expect everyone to approve of my choices. But for the few reading this forum who know they can't do what many of you are doing but are open to other possibilities, living overseas is a viable alternative. The Kaderli's(spelling?) greatly enjoy Chiang Mai, Thailand. Many on the Thai Visa Forum worry that Chiang Mai is losing much of it's charm, and that Thailand is increasingly making it difficult to live there. In other words, things are fluid, what was great may be supplanted by up and coming cities elsewhere. Anyone considering this has to do their own research and to be successful has to be willing to compromise. I know those that have emphasised the safety aspects of living in places like Ecuador are showing genuine concern, but I have to weigh that against literally thousands of posts I've read of people who've lived and traveled there who never experienced more than a pickpocket. Bad things can and do happen, but it's not likely to with precautions. Besides, I'm 6'2", 275, and not fat!

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

certainly it is nobody's place to judge. while money (or pretty much anything--being white, being french, whatever) can turn even ordinary people into snobs, i do believe that there is a sense of adventure to many of the participants here and that their criticism, though perhaps taking on personality at times, merely seeks to find potential flaws for your consideration. it is for you to realize that people talk through their own eyes, not through yours.

i'm neither a snob socially nor shrewd financially. money to me was never about putting on airs or even luxuries themselves but about security. any comfort i get outside of secuity is just a bonus if that. those are my eyes. a $13k pension, even from a company as conservative an solid as my xemployer, plus $70k in savings would not make me feel secure. depositing or investing 35% of my reserve into a developing country of which i was not a citizen, where that money might not be assured and where i couldn’t even work on the books should that need arise, would make me nervous. but i scare easy so don’t go by me.


aside from that, you say that in 9 years you will have a $13,000/year pension but you also say that today ecuador requires you to show an income of $800/month now. i don't know how i could plan on those conditions remaining the same so far into the future, especially not when the world has changed so much just today. in any case, of course, good luck to you. i'm planning a similar adventure though perhaps a bit better funded. and even with that, i'm looking into going back to work now or otherwise reducing my expenditures so that when i am 55 i'll hopefully feel more secure.

 

[AlmostThere]

i'm neither a snob socially nor shrewd financially. money to me was never about putting on airs or even luxuries themselves but about security. any comfort i get outside of secuity is just a bonus if that. those are my eyes. a $13k pension, even from a company as conservative an solid as my xemployer, plus $70k in savings would not make me feel secure. depositing or investing 35% of my reserve into a developing country of which i was not a citizen, where that money might not be assured and where i couldn?t even work on the books should that need arise, would make me nervous. but i scare easy so don?t go by me.


aside from that, you say that in 9 years you will have a $13,000/year pension but you also say that today ecuador requires you to show an income of $800/month now. i don't know how i could plan on those conditions remaining the same so far into the future, especially not when the world has changed so much just today.

You're right, things may change. If I have to I'll have the option to return to the States and work. Social Security will start eventually. If it doesn't I'll be in the same boat as miliions of other Americans. But $13,000 a year is very good money in many countries. Supplemented with savings as needed I should be fine. If not, I'll keep working. You're right, everyone sees things thru their own eyes. With everyone's perspective here biased in terms of what it takes to live the independent life they want in the States, living on considerably less in a foreign country must be difficult to wrap their mind around. A different paradigm. I just hope folks realize that they don't need $70,000 a year to live well, or whatever number is considered ideal in the States. Regards, Wade

 

[haha]

You're right, things may change. If I have to I'll have the option to return to the States and work. Social Security will start eventually. If it doesn't I'll be in the same boat as miliions of other Americans. But $13,000 a year is very good money in many countries. Supplemented with savings as needed I should be fine. If not, I'll keep working. You're right, everyone sees things thru their own eyes. With everyone's perspective here biased in terms of what it takes to live the independent life they want in the States, living on considerably less in a foreign country must be difficult to wrap their mind around. A different paradigm. I just hope folks realize that they don't need $70,000 a year to live well, or whatever number is considered ideal in the States. Regards, Wade

Wade, I am wondering- if you are going to marry a Filipina, why not settle in the Philippines? She will know the language and can help you learn it; at least one of you will not be homesick and culture shocked; and most of all she can help you get integrated into a social network of family and locals. She will keep you out of trouble too.

Even if you know the local language, it can be like someone from Michigan moving into a mountain town in Eastern Kentucky. You might hear their words, but believe me you don't necessarily know what they are saying.

Ha

 

[AlmostThere]

Wade, I am wondering- if you are going to marry a Filipina, why not settle in the Philippines? She will know the language and can help you learn it; at least one of you will not be homesick and culture shocked; and most of all she can help you get integrated into a social network of family and locals. She will keep you out of trouble too.

Ha

I definitely looked at the Philippines. For several years actually. English is the language that ties the islands together. Most Filipinos speak it to some extent. And Filipinos are pro-american and Christian for the most part. And a quirk of their culture makes white skin highly desirable. While people here lay in the sun Filipinas use "whitening cream" to lighten their complexion. It's one of the very few places where middle aged white guys, no matter their looks, can find a young English speaking wife who considers herself lucky if he chooses her. Now before anyone attacks me do the research. Absolutely true.

The Philippines are a mess. And with the fastest growing population in Asia due to the strong Catholic influence, the problems will only get worse. There are huge Yahoo Groups dedicated to living there and many like it. But many more don't last very long. Everyone says the people are great. And a great place to find a wife. But red tape is a nightmare. Everything is patched together. Poverty is more than 70%. And the food is lousy. I finally started looking at Thailand and Malaysia and may ultimately live in one of those places. But Ecuador is much closer and makes it easy to live there. And I've always liked the Andes. If I had the money New Zealand would be my first choice but Ecuador will do.

Regards,
Wade

 

[Florida]

And Filipinos are pro-american and Christian for the most part. It's one of the very few places where middle aged white guys, no matter their looks, can find a young English speaking wife who considers herself lucky if he chooses her. Now before anyone attacks me do the research. Absolutely true.



Regards,
Wade

Wade, which part of the Phillipines did you find the pro American attitude?
Any safety issues?

 

[billman]

Wade, Check these out

IMMIGRATION DEPARTMENT OF MALAYSIA

Malaysia my second home program get second citizenship, retire, live in Malaysia


I hear it's an amazing place! good luck!

 

[AlmostThere]

Wade, which part of the Phillipines did you find the pro American attitude?
Any safety issues?

Most of the Phils actually. Filipinos are now the largest Asian ethnic group in the U.S.. Getting over here is the goal of millions. The southern island of Mindanao's western half has a large muslim population and there are some extremist groups there who've murdered Americans. Things flare up there from time to time but the military keeps a tight rein on it. The central islands, collectively called the Visayas, are where most expats live, especially in and around Cebu. The northern 3rd of the Phils are where most of the typhoons hit. The Visayas not so much, and rarely in the south. Physical violence against expats is pretty rare outside of that muslim area I mentioned but theft is epidemic. An exception that has gotten some expats hurt is telling a woman you'll marry her in order to get physical with her. If you then back out her male relatives will come after you for dishonoring her. A very serious thing there. The islands themselves are very beautiful but trash is everywhere. There are almost 100 million people living in a land area a little larger than Arizona. It's not all bad. Filipinos love malls, and several of the world's largest malls are in the Philippines. Seafood is excellent although alot of expats can't stand the way alot of it is prepared. I've read posts of guys who said they never knew what it's like to be a rock star until they walked thru a mall in the Philippines. As crazy as it sounds, you will constantly be approached by attractive young women who hope you will be interested in them. Even men will tell you they have a sister or niece they'd like you to meet. It's a completely different world there. Regards, Wade

 

[AlmostThere]

Wade, Check these out

IMMIGRATION DEPARTMENT OF MALAYSIA

Malaysia my second home program get second citizenship, retire, live in Malaysia


I hear it's an amazing place! good luck!

Borders has bookstores in Kuala Lumpur and Penang. Very tempting. Street food in Penang is supposed to be incredibly good too. If you are heading that way hope you let me know how you like it! I think I may take a trip to Malaysia and Thailand to make sure about where I'll retire. Regards, Wade