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Old 03-30-2014, 09:04 PM   #81
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OP here. The feelings have passed. They were a momentary insanity. I think part of what I was feeling was also just a sense of loss. Although work was been stressful and annoying, I was also more identified with it than I realized. It's going to be weird and sad to let it go. But it's also something I know I want to do. I am looking forward to downshifting and throwing off some of the stress, then eventually moving on to something else, somewhere else.

I will continue to work in a variety of ways, so the idea that "this is all I'll ever achieve" was ridiculous, really -- in fact, this will give me the chance to "achieve" things that matter more to me, like spiritual growth, spending time with loved ones, and exploring what comes next.
GOOD! I see you are on the right path now. Congratulations!
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:04 PM   #82
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+1. When your BS bucket is full, you will know it. I agree with Meadbh that you should continue working and periodically reevaluate your situation.

To people like Shawn who really have all the money they need and hate the work.

Although I don't have all I need but am hoping to make it in the next year or two, I have this little experience that I would like to share.

I'm a contract software guy that works for different companies depending upon who may need me. Last year I had some health problems that barely allowed me to work a 40'hr week. Well one Friday I got a call asking me to do a small job that would take the weekend. I felt like crap but well enough to do the work, but I felt that there was no way I was going work a long weekend the way I felt. The money would be about $2500. And I didn't really need the money, and the work would be hideously boring.

Then I had this idea... The weather was lousy and I would be home all weekend anyway, so why don't i do the work and just donate the money to charity. So I decided to do that.

Well the satisfaction I got from that very mundane weekend work was enormous. More than I've gotten in years. Every crappy hour turned into a happy hour because I was giving it away to someone in need. I sent the money to a local food bank, and I got a call from them saying it was one of their largest donations that year. Again, I felt great just hearing that.

So for people like Shawn, think of who most might need your extra money, may even be a family member, and give some of it away. Every day u go to a job u hate, decide that part of that days money goes to that person, charity etc. I think you will start to like your job again
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:43 PM   #83
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Loved that story about working the weekend and giving it to the Food Bank!

I am planning on retiring at age 54 and will have worked full-time for 34 years. I started saving to retire at age 22 and remember buying a book "How to Retire at 35" and other books like that. I did not make it at 35 but still consider 54 "pretty young" compared to many people I know who are planning on going to age 65.

My career goals were really how to get me to the retirement goal.

Now that I am within six months of pulling the plug, I had a thought, I wonder if people will think I am lazy? In my job I work 10-12 hour days and am beyond burned out. But since I have worked non-stop since age 16 and full-time since age 20 I have never known not working.

I am a female so it is not so much loss of identity, I am ready to ditch the business suits and wear comfortable clothes! But it hit me last week, I wonder if people will think I am lazy? Since I have been planning my retirement for 32 years and find early retirement a wonderful goal to achieve I was surprised I started thinking about the whole lazy thing.

Maybe it is guilt because most of my friends either can't or won't retire early. They want to put in more time to get a bigger pension, where I decided what is the minimum I need to have in savings and pension and hit the goal this year.
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:44 PM   #84
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I have no qualms about being a worthless layabout...

I never cured cancer, struck it rich, or became famous. I was pretty good at what I did, and was paid reasonably well, but as the years passed it was apparent that megaconglomocorp couldn't give a rat's ass about me. Fair enough, the feeling was mutual.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:15 PM   #85
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I just had a conversation with my 74 YO dad. He cannot quite wrap his head around the idea that I don't want another cube farm job. Since I have to go over this at a high level every so often it is getting more internalized. Even when I was busy saving the world for modern capitalism over the last 5 years, it was not worth the aggravation, burnout and time away from the family. So tell me again why I should expect fulfillment in yet another pointless job? I like having my time much better.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:43 PM   #86
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OP here. The feelings have passed. They were a momentary insanity. I think part of what I was feeling was also just a sense of loss. Although work was been stressful and annoying, I was also more identified with it than I realized. It's going to be weird and sad to let it go. But it's also something I know I want to do. I am looking forward to downshifting and throwing off some of the stress, then eventually moving on to something else, somewhere else.

I will continue to work in a variety of ways, so the idea that "this is all I'll ever achieve" was ridiculous, really -- in fact, this will give me the chance to "achieve" things that matter more to me, like spiritual growth, spending time with loved ones, and exploring what comes next.
Way to go! Enjoy your next challenges and adventures
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:30 AM   #87
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This was really brought home to me when I cleaned out a cubical of a fellow engineer that had left the company. All those meticulously indexed notebooks, stacks of CDs with data, photographs, reports and graphs - into the dumpster.
I've done that more times than I care to remember. While it made me feel like I was very much a survivor by outlasting so many, it also brings on the realization of at best being a single spoke of a very, very large wheel.

- exiting Megacorp in <80 working days
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:29 AM   #88
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OP here. The feelings have passed. They were a momentary insanity. I think part of what I was feeling was also just a sense of loss. Although work was been stressful and annoying, I was also more identified with it than I realized. It's going to be weird and sad to let it go. But it's also something I know I want to do. I am looking forward to downshifting and throwing off some of the stress, then eventually moving on to something else, somewhere else.

I will continue to work in a variety of ways, so the idea that "this is all I'll ever achieve" was ridiculous, really -- in fact, this will give me the chance to "achieve" things that matter more to me, like spiritual growth, spending time with loved ones, and exploring what comes next.
Glad that you came to your senses. You had us worried there for a minute.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:21 AM   #89
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I've done that more times than I care to remember. While it made me feel like I was very much a survivor by outlasting so many, it also brings on the realization of at best being a single spoke of a very, very large wheel.

- exiting Megacorp in <80 working days
Exactly. That's one reason why I feel the job I do is pointless, in the grand scheme of things, and I get no sense of satisfaction from my career.

Sitting in a cube all day writing code...pointless.
Going to meetings...pointless.
Version 2.0 of software comes out...pointless.

When I ER in hopefully a year, I will never work in an office, sit in a cube, stare at a computer, or work an IT job ever again.

Although these 4 years at a startup which will hopefully pay off financially for me should be the most rewarding time of my career, to me it's felt like a prison sentence. I'm going to take the bag of money and run, and never look back.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:39 AM   #90
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Have any of you felt that you were put on this earth to do something special with your skills and life, or contribute something really good to the world, but got side tracked along the way? That's the way I have felt all these years. I am now working on fixing that and getting on that road I should have been on decades ago. Retirement has now allowed me to focus on my core values without having to have the need for money cloud the way. I feel like I have now been given a second chance in my life...and this time, I'm not going to screw it up. It's about personal achievement.
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+1 to this ...

I really do think this is very common -- at least among my professional contemporaries, many of whom chose our profession out of (a) pressure from parents/family; or (b) need for a perceived stable, reliable source of income as opposed to a true calling. Those plus the dramatic changes that have taken place in the profession over the past 5-7 yrs or so make it a much less laudable way to go.

Not ER yet, but just about FI and the whole point, IMO, is to have the time to pursue other interests that have been set aside for 20+ yrs to pursue financial security for myself and my family.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:40 AM   #91
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I understand your feeling; I sometimes have the same feeling, however, I catch myself and say, 'Why do you have that feeling?´, and in my own case, it comes down to a slight sadness that that's it, that my life as FILTH (Failed In London, Tried Honshu), as a common unqualified 'English teacher' in Japan, is over, that that was it, that was my career. And it's only sad because I loved my job, I loved living in Japan, and I loved the fact that I wasn't living in the F.UK during my work years, and indeed, in the aftermath of those work years. So for me, it's not so much that I miss 'working', it's a realisation that that part of my life is over. For sure, I am young enough to go back into teaching, but I DON'T WANT TO. It is work, and I worked and saved so as to enable myself to be one of the few people out there my age, free, free years and years before I'm 'supposed' to be free, and that is the best thing about where I am now, it is far greater than the occasional twinges of sadness I get regarding the Japan years of my life being over.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:46 AM   #92
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I'm 3 weeks into ER and definitely have the feeling that I could be still contributing in my field.....I think it's related to the OMY syndrome which I think is as much about needing to feel necessary as it is the money.

I'm toying with doing some part time w*rk, but what it to be exciting and useful. Not just for the money....of course that reduces the number of opportunities. I could always just volunteer for something that is unrelated to my experience, but is worthwhile.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:33 AM   #93
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I think it's related to the OMY syndrome which I think is as much about needing to feel necessary as it is the money...
I feel necessary to myself. Others' opinions vary...
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:16 PM   #94
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I feel necessary to myself. Others' opinions vary...
Did you say something?
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:15 PM   #95
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So for people like Shawn, think of who most might need your extra money, may even be a family member, and give some of it away. Every day u go to a job u hate, decide that part of that days money goes to that person, charity etc. I think you will start to like your job again
These are very important considerations from a financial perspective. I have more than enough for myself. In part, this is due to my low personal expenses ($15K/yr not counting mortgage and normal charitable contributions).

But I am often faced with situations when family/friends need help. My cat required $35K in vet bills over a two year period. I gave $8K this year to my pet sitter for two of her cats ($5K is technically a loan). A year ago a situation developed that could have required me to buy a house for my mother (the situation resolved itself). A situation is developing such that I may loan a friend $200-$300K (or co-sign a loan) so she can buy a house before funds from an inheritance pass through probate. The niece of a friend from the Philippines is about to graduate high school, and I may end up paying her college costs here or in the Philippines (10-20% chance this will happen).

I can take these actions or offer this help because I have more than enough. And I can do so without second thoughts. But I do not know what the future will bring - either with me or with others I care about. My mother lives on $1K/month SS. I think my step-mother is OK but I am not sure. One of my brothers is close to destitute, but will not accept family assistance. At least not today.

So from a financial perspective, there is never enough.

I grew up well below the poverty level. It is not a good feeling. The poverty itself is not too bad. The bad part is the feeling of helplessness believing that nothing can be done ... not wanting to go to school because other students make fun of you for wearing the same clothes every day ... not wanting to go home because you do not know if you will need to call the police again due to violence in the home. I believe most people live their lives thinking or knowing that there always will be someone to help them out if things get tough. But it is not like this for many. There is no one. I want my family and friends - many of whom do not have much money - to know that they will be OK, at least financially. This is not an altruistic motive. It is a selfish motive. I feel good knowing that I can help them, if needed, and I feel good knowing that I can help myself.

So deciding whether I should retire today at 54 with a pension of $85K/yr, work another 5 years for a pension of $170K/yr (plus additional savings to an already decent portfolio), or do something in the middle is not trivial. Some people call this greed. Maybe it is. But life is life. I want to be prepared for the events that happen.
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:24 PM   #96
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These are very important considerations from a financial perspective. I have more than enough for myself. In part, this is due to my low personal expenses ($15K/yr not counting mortgage and normal charitable contributions).

But I am often faced with situations when family/friends need help. My cat required $35K in vet bills over a two year period. I gave $8K this year to my pet sitter for two of her cats ($5K is technically a loan). A year ago a situation developed that could have required me to buy a house for my mother (the situation resolved itself). A situation is developing such that I may loan a friend $200-$300K (or co-sign a loan) so she can buy a house before funds from an inheritance pass through probate. The niece of a friend from the Philippines is about to graduate high school, and I may end up paying her college costs here or in the Philippines (10-20% chance this will happen).

I can take these actions or offer this help because I have more than enough. And I can do so without second thoughts. But I do not know what the future will bring - either with me or with others I care about. My mother lives on $1K/month SS. I think my step-mother is OK but I am not sure. One of my brothers is close to destitute, but will not accept family assistance. At least not today.

So from a financial perspective, there is never enough.

I grew up well below the poverty level. It is not a good feeling. The poverty itself is not too bad. The bad part is the feeling of helplessness believing that nothing can be done ... not wanting to go to school because other students make fun of you for wearing the same clothes every day ... not wanting to go home because you do not know if you will need to call the police again due to violence in the home. I believe most people live their lives thinking or knowing that there always will be someone to help them out if things get tough. But it is not like this for many. There is no one. I want my family and friends - many of whom do not have much money - to know that they will be OK, at least financially. This is not an altruistic motive. It is a selfish motive. I feel good knowing that I can help them, if needed, and I feel good knowing that I can help myself.

So deciding whether I should retire today at 54 with a pension of $85K/yr, work another 5 years for a pension of $170K/yr (plus additional savings to an already decent portfolio), or do something in the middle is not trivial. Some people call this greed. Maybe it is. But life is life. I want to be prepared for the events that happen.

I understand this. Seems like you and I are walking a similar line. With a few words and number changes, you described my situation to a tee.
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:14 PM   #97
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These are very important considerations from a financial perspective. I have more than enough for myself. In part, this is due to my low personal expenses ($15K/yr not counting mortgage and normal charitable contributions).

But I am often faced with situations when family/friends need help.
……………………...

I grew up well below the poverty level. It is not a good feeling. The poverty itself is not too bad. The bad part is the feeling of helplessness believing that nothing can be done ... not wanting to go to school because other students make fun of you for wearing the same clothes every day ... not wanting to go home because you do not know if you will need to call the police again due to violence in the home. I believe most people live their lives thinking or knowing that there always will be someone to help them out if things get tough. But it is not like this for many. There is no one. I want my family and friends - many of whom do not have much money - to know that they will be OK, at least financially. This is not an altruistic motive. It is a selfish motive. I feel good knowing that I can help them, if needed, and I feel good knowing that I can help myself.

So deciding whether I should retire today at 54 with a pension of $85K/yr, work another 5 years for a pension of $170K/yr (plus additional savings to an already decent portfolio), or do something in the middle is not trivial. Some people call this greed. Maybe it is. But life is life. I want to be prepared for the events that happen.
Shawn, now that you have provided a more detailed explanation, I do not call it greed. It seems that you feel responsible for many family members and friends. I have worked with many people from the Phillipine community and they often do feel a strong obligation to help out family members. This is of course very laudable. I have often thought that it puts an unfair burden on those who do well in life.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:02 PM   #98
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I accept that the feelings are not rational - or better said, that they are not logical. Emotions tend to be rational even when they are not logical. But the feelings are quite common. Many people are hesitant to give up something built with a lifetime of effort (i.e., a career).

Spending fulfilling time in retirement is not even a minor concern. For me, much of the time will be spent doing more of what I already do ... athletic and outdoor activities (and preparing for such activities). It takes 5-6 months to hike the Pacific Crest Trail from Mexico to Canada, for example.

You are correct. Having 400 times expenses is not going to make one feel more financially secure than having 300 times expenses. But that is not the issue. I already feel financially secure. The issue is lost financial opportunity.

Would a typical early retiree go back to work for 1 day if their former boss offered them 1 million dollars? Of course they would. Almost anyone would. Even people with more than enough would not give up an opportunity to make that much money for only one day of time. Otherwise, they would regret the decision for the rest of their lives. While the example is absurd - it's never going to happen - the point is that even people with enough money do not hesitate to make more when the terms are right. Perhaps people shouldn't do this. But they do.

The difficulty is knowing when the terms are right. If I retire today at age 54 with a decent probability of living another ~40 years, my DB pension will provide me with about $85K/yr (COLA'ed). It goes up by over $1K/yr for every additional month of work. So if I work another 3 months - not that much time - I'll receive an additional $4K/yr for the rest of my life. If I work another 5 years - a sizable but not absurd amount of time - my lifetime COLA'ed pension will be about $170K/yr.

These differences are not trivial. The financial opportunity is huge. It's not easy to give up. It does not matter that the money is not needed. And I can give the money to others and feel good it. Yes, something may happen to my health and I may want those extra 3 months or 5 years back. But it's not a simple decision. It comes with both logic and emotions.
None of that will matter when you are dead. At 54 you are not a spring chicken. I feel sad for you that you are staying in a career you are not excited about just to "run up the score."

I hope you do keep your health well past the next 5 years so you can finally enjoy some of those athletic/outdoor activities.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:15 PM   #99
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It all comes down to "Your Money or Your Life." I know many of us have read that book. I am planning on going out this fall with a pension of $33,000 at age 53.75. Each quarter matters so I am back in Kindergarden. I am 53, 53 1/4, 53 1/2, 53 3/4. I am giving up $4,000 per year, every quarter adds a thousand to my pension. If you make it 55 they give you $3,600 per year toward health insurance, that is non-cola. The pension is cola.

My H.R. friend told me you are walking away from $280,000 by leaving at 53 3/4 vs. 55. If I worked to 65 that would be about 2 million more in pension if I live to 92, like my Mom did. Both calculations use age 92.

So I am walking away from between $280,000 to 2 million by going out early. But my life is worth more, I have saved since age 22 and am burned out. At least for me money really isn't everything. Not if it means putting up with the 10 - 12 hour days for the next 11 years. No thanks.

I have had cancer (melanoma) and I think stress is not good for cancer patients. I have had migraines for years only on work days. I can't see sticking it out and then dying of cancer or a stroke/heart attack before retiring. My Mom made it to 92, no guarantee I will.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:23 PM   #100
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It all comes down to "Your Money or Your Life." I know many of us have read that book. I am planning on going out this fall with a pension of $33,000 at age 53.75. Each quarter matters so I am back in Kindergarden. I am 53, 53 1/4, 53 1/2, 53 3/4. I am giving up $4,000 per year, every quarter adds a thousand to my pension. If you make it 55 they give you $3,600 per year toward health insurance, that is non-cola. The pension is cola.

My H.R. friend told me you are walking away from $280,000 by leaving at 53 3/4 vs. 55. If I worked to 65 that would be about 2 million more in pension if I live to 92, like my Mom did. Both calculations use age 92.
I took a year LOA. Right before I the year was up. I debating going back to work I calculated that if just worked another 3 years between stock options, salary, bonus and profit sharing I would have more than $1 million (although much less after taxes). It was hard walking away from that kind of money.

Well this was back in 2000, Intel stock immediately crashed, bonus and profit sharing were slashed. If I had gone back to work the stock options would have been worthless, I wouldn't have diversified my portfolio, and probably would have ended up with very small financial gains.

Of course pensions are much more secure than stock options, but stuff happens. More years in retirement is the bird in the hand.
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