How to Afford Anything

[W2R]

It would be interesting to hear from some of the single guys .Do they always expect to pay for dates even if it is a long term relationship or would they be glad to share and if they were uncomfortable with going dutch would they want the woman to compensate in other (not that way ) ways such as having him over for dinner .Just wondering ?

Interesting sociology topic, I suppose, for those interested in sociology... would they feel comfortable if the woman insisted on driving, deciding where they would go, and paying exactly half the time? And what part of the country they live in and what age are they? And then there are the customs in foreign countries, where some of the single men on the board live. As someone who has lived (and dated) in many states and countries, I think I have seen a broad variety in dating customs and attitudes in different locations.

 

[Sandy]

Another woman point of view, one who had a long history of dating.

I was always more comfortable going dutch or taking turns, even when the relationship was serious. That included selecting where we would go/what we would do and how we would pay for it. I wanted a relationship that was a partnership. If someone wasn't comfortable with even-type sharing while dating, it certainly woudn't work long term.

Also, in the early stages of a relationship, keeping things even - feels like it eliminates any obligation for pay back - as previously noted.

 

[Moemg]

I As someone who has lived (and dated) in many states and countries, I think I have seen a broad variety in dating customs and attitudes in different locations.

Interesting so you can enlighten us about the other customs and attitudes .I've only lived and dated in New Jersey,Pa and Florida and they are pretty similar so I'm always interested in other customs and attitudes .

 

[Notmuchlonger]

I married. However if I was single and I asked a lady out I would expect to pay. If she asked me then I would expect her to pay. I figured if you keep seeing each other then it would eventually progress to going dutch. Fair is fair

 

[Lakedog]

It would be interesting to hear from some of the single guys .Do they always expect to pay for dates even if it is a long term relationship or would they be glad to share and if they were uncomfortable with going dutch would they want the woman to compensate in other (not that way ) ways such as having him over for dinner .Just wondering ?

As a single guy, I usually expect to pay when I ask someone out. When I have been in long-term relationships, I always felt like expenses should be shared (and usually that was the case). I have lived primarily in the South, but also spent a few years in the PNW. In my experience, southern women have been somewhat less comfortable sharing dating/relationship costs but that seems to be changing.

 

[megacorp-firee]

Frank is a gentleman in every sense of the word, which includes being basically a sweet guy. He can pretty much tell what places I like and don't like, from my reactions. Also, I tell him if I think a place is wonderful or not very good. Since we go together and have the same experiences at places, we tend to agree almost completely on which ones we like. So, most of the time he chooses places that I like. We both love food, which helps. He takes me to my favorite restaurants frequently.

But often he surprises me. He is a native New Orleanian, whereas I have only lived here I guess 12 years. He knows about hundreds of little hole-in-the-walls that are unknown gems, so to speak, and he is as likely as not to take me to a place that I've never heard of or been to, that turns out to be fabulous. The last time he did this we ended up at a restaurant with mostly gay clientele and staff, in a 200+ year old building in Faubourg Marigny with 16 foot ceilings and cypress floors, and plants everywhere. I had one of the best salads of my life there! It was amazing and the staff and environment were very pleasant. I like his surprises.

Sometimes we used to go to a cheap Italian place in a bad neighborhood that had the most incredible Italian salad (we have a different name for it here) and cost almost nothing, and the waitress had probably known him for 40 years. It was destroyed in the storm and never came back, but still I am glad he took me there. I would not have tried that place myself, had he not taken me there.

I don't often suggest a place unless we are starving and places are going to be jammed, like at Mardi Gras. Then when he suggests a place on the parade route, I gently tell him that is nuts and I suggest a place that might actually have room for us, for example. Right after the storm when it was hard or impossible to find any grocery stores or restaurants at all that were open, I did a lot of suggesting.

I think it is a generational thing as much as a locale thing. Being a 50'ish male, I (try to) behave much like Frank. You figure out what your 'date' likes and if they more or less match what you like, then it turns into a nice relationship. I think that women (and sorry if I am putting words in your mouths) of my generation like to be treat ... well like ladies.
I would be interested in knowing the ages of the responders to see if my theory holds. ... just curious ...

 

[megacorp-firee]

Nothing in particular bothered me about the post. I find it symptomatic of the larger issue, defined perspective.

I don't think he's the things that you attribute to him. I don't believe the he's a leech or mooch. I didn't see extensive evidence of that, nor do I truly believe that it's all that possible. My feeling is that if people willingly give you things, they're yours for the taking. What counts as "willingly"? Pretty much everything. Most people will complain about others living off them yet never address the issue. If the issue hasn't been addressed, I don't think it can be considered mooching.

But why is it "every once in a while" that you're willing to pick up the check? Is it only "every once in a while" that you want to be equal or take responsibility? To me, that at the least resides in the zip code next to mooching (per the definition that I've inferred from your posting) and is its co-habitation partner. How does mooching go? Does it only not count when it's up to any of us to pick up the check? How about for children not of legal age to have a job? Those of legal working age yet not yet old enough to be kicked out of the home?

I think it's about perspective. You say this isn't; I say that isn't. Really though, maybe 'this' equals 'that'.

Starter .. seems to me that when it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, ...likelihood of being a duck is pretty good.

 

[SecondCor521]

It would be interesting to hear from some of the single guys .Do they always expect to pay for dates even if it is a long term relationship or would they be glad to share and if they were uncomfortable with going dutch would they want the woman to compensate in other (not that way ) ways such as having him over for dinner .Just wondering ?

Single guy here.

I think many factors go into who pays:

1. Whomever asks has a greater obligation to pay.
2. Whomever chooses the restaurant or movie has a greater obligation to pay.
3. If there is a significant discrepancy in salaries or wealth, I think the wealthier or higher income, as a practical matter, has a greater obligation to pay.
4. I do have somewhat of a sexist bias in that I think all other things being equal the guy has a greater obligation to pay. But mostly this is a consequence of the previous three points more often indicating the guy.

Personally, I would really appreciate a woman who offers something, even if it's not 50/50. Like if she offers to get the tip, or if I bought dinner she pays for the movie, or if I pay for the movie she buys the popcorn or soda.

I also would prefer taking turns paying over going dutch all the time.

In a serious LTR, it seems reasonable for each to contribute at least very roughly according to their incomes. But that is not what I would expect or directly demand. I would take the approach of asking and paying for everything, hoping to see some initiative on her part to offer to pay or asking me out in return. If those two things didn't happen then there wouldn't end up being an LTR.

2Cor521

 

[W2R]

I think it is a generational thing as much as a locale thing. Being a 50'ish male, I (try to) behave much like Frank. You figure out what your 'date' likes and if they more or less match what you like, then it turns into a nice relationship. I think that women (and sorry if I am putting words in your mouths) of my generation like to be treat ... well like ladies.
I would be interested in knowing the ages of the responders to see if my theory holds. ... just curious ...

You aren't putting words in MY mouth... I enjoy being treated like a lady by the gentleman in my life. It shows mutual respect, which is a fine thing to be showing. We are 50'ish also (53 and 59). I always offer to pay, and he always declines but often lets me pay the tip, sometimes a little more. He earns 6 figures and I still only earn 5, though actually that is probably irrelevant for him.

Most gentlemen our age in this part of the country will open the door for me and walk on the street side of me on a sidewalk, though he only follows these customs erratically. It's confusing for guys who were raised to be Southern gentlemen, but who find out as adults that they might or might not offend someone by opening a door for her.

 

[Moemg]

I think it is a generational thing as much as a locale thing. Being a 50'ish male, I (try to) behave much like Frank. You figure out what your 'date' likes and if they more or less match what you like, then it turns into a nice relationship. I think that women (and sorry if I am putting words in your mouths) of my generation like to be treat ... well like ladies.
I would be interested in knowing the ages of the responders to see if my theory holds. ... just curious ...

Most of the men I've dated in my 50's heldthe door ,pay for the dates and do all the gentlemanly things which is really appreciated .I do think they all were pretty happy when I cooked them a nice meal in return or picked up tickets to a show .I live with someone now and we take turns paying for dinners out .I live in Florida which is south but not southern if you know what I mean .My So is a born and raised Florida cracker .I'd love to hear from some of our middle of the country people to find out the customs their .This is really interesting and eyeopening to me .

 

[TromboneAl]

walk on the street side of me on a sidewalk,

Back in the "How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?" "That's not funny!" days, I dated a [-]girl[/-] woman who, when she noticed that I usually maneuvered so as to have her walking on my left side, got angry. She accused me of being a male chauvinist pig because I was always having her on that side. I explained that I was blind in my right eye.

 

[figner]

Back in the "How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?" "That's not funny!" days, I dated a [-]girl[/-] woman who, when she noticed that I usually maneuvered so as to have her walking on my left side, got angry. She accused me of being a male chauvinist pig because I was always having her on that side. I explained that I was blind in my right eye.

Heh. Great example of why to beware assumptions!

As a 30-something datapoint, I much prefer to share things roughly equally - taking turns buying dinner and choosing the activities, that sort of thing. I might feel differently if one of a couple had consistently more expensive tastes than the other, or if there was a big income disparity.

I also appreciate the small chivalries like having doors opened or my jacket held. This is regardless of the person's gender, or whether they're a friend or date. Sometimes I hold doors open for people and get strange looks from the men. Women can enjoy being chivalrous too!

Does anyone know how the "man walks on the street side" custom got started? Is it because you're more likely to get splatters and dirt from the road?

 

[Moemg]

Back in the "How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?" "That's not funny!" days,

What that when we all burned our bras and later had to have breast lifts ?

 

[W2R]

I live in Florida which is south but not southern if you know what I mean

I know exactly what you mean! At least, South Florida has always seemed more like the northeastern U.S. than the South to me, in many ways. My brother says that is because a lot of people retire there from the northeast.

The Panhandle area seems different from South Florida, to me, and maybe more southern. Frank calls it "lower Alabama" for that reason.

Does anyone know how the "man walks on the street side" custom got started? Is it because you're more likely to get splatters and dirt from the road?

Yes, in the days of horses and buggies that was a big concern, and I think that is how it got started.

 

[Orchidflower]

Having lived in Chicago many years, I can tell you the custom there is the man always pays. The gals then, in turn, cook some dinners for the man or help him in other ways. But on a date, it would be considered ungentlemanly for the man not to pay and has always been that way.
But, in all honesty, the men in Chicago are pretty macho overall. Watch the Cops during a Thanksgiving parade in Chicago, and you will see what I mean: none of them have their legs closer than 2' together when they stand in that macho pose they do (it's a hoot!).
In Houston, I dated a Hispanic guy. That culture is so macho that, when his car had problems and was in the shop, he even INSISTED on driving my car. He acted like he would be embarrassed to be seen with me driving instead of him.
On the other hand, I know quite a few Hispanic guys who live off their girlfriends and wives there. Doesn't jibe, does it?
I admit that I an conservative and old fashioned enough to want the guy to pay my way at the beginning, anyway. It's custom, it's traditional and I would be uncomfortable--or, at the very least, question his true motives and nature--if I were expected to pay at the beginning of the relationship.
Heck, I had a date last year with a guy who used a coupon at a steakhouse for my dinner (which made mine free for him). Needless to say, any girlfriend I told about it said the same thing, "well, I guess you won't be going out with him again." It just comes off as cheap in most women's eyes. Fair or not, that is the way it is.
Once a relationship gets going then, heck, the woman should help with expenses--especially if this is a "serious" one headed for a long term commitment. Just my opinion. Does anyone disagree with this? I am open for other opinions, but I "think" that most men want and expect to pay for the lady at the beginning of a relationship. Right, guys?

And, starter82, Rockwall is a duck.

 

[W2R]

Heck, I had a date last year with a guy who used a coupon at a steakhouse for my dinner (which made mine free for him). Needless to say, any girlfriend I told about it said the same thing, "well, I guess you won't be going out with him again." It just comes off as cheap in most women's eyes. Fair or not, that is the way it is.

He did that on a first date? Now THAT guy has cojones, no doubt about it!! On the other hand, you'd know that he shares the same LBYM attitudes that most of us on the ER forum share, that's for sure.

I think that's a great story. Probably I would not have refused a second date if I had dated someone like that, but I would have been a little shocked and curious.

Once a relationship gets going then, heck, the woman should help with expenses--especially if this is a "serious" one headed for a long term commitment. Just my opinion. Does anyone disagree with this?

Frank and I seem to have worked things out. It's all in the give and take, I guess!! He has hardly ever taken me up on offers to pay for dinner, but on the other hand he often chooses restaurants that would seem pretty expensive to me. We have been together for about 8 years, committed and "going steady" for 7 years, and we have been through a lot together and have helped one another through some tough times and in practical ways, as well as emotional support.

Oops! Gotta go. He just called and is picking me up, to take me out to lunch. Ta ta, y'all....

 

[Moemg]

Once a relationship gets going then, heck, the woman should help with expenses--especially if this is a "serious" one headed for a long term commitment. Just my opinion. Does anyone disagree with this? I am open for other opinions, but I "think" that most men want and expect to pay for the lady at the beginning of a relationship. Right, guys?

And, starter82, Rockwall is a duck.

Once a relationship ship gets going you are usually spending a lot of time at each other's houses so even if the woman is not paying for dinners out she is usually cooking at least breakfast or am I wrong ?

PS If a guy pulled out a coupon on a first date I might be surprized but after that who cares .

 

[HFWR]

It's all so complicated...

Asking for relationship advice from me is like sending the goat to tend the cabbage...

 

[Orchidflower]

When I am free again, I cannot wait to meet a guy to date who loves to eat as I LOVE to cook... There is nothing more discouraging for someone who loves to cook than a picky eater, so that would eliminate him right away in my book.

 

[Orchidflower]

OK, I'll be honest...the guy had other faults that I couldn't stand either, so the coupon was just the dealbreaker, in other words. But it does look cheap to most women.
Hint: Don't use a coupon on a FIRST date, fellows. Just my 10 cent advice in case the gal doesn't admire your frugality with her.

 

[youbet]

Does anyone know how the "man walks on the street side" custom got started? Is it because you're more likely to get splatters and dirt from the road?

So the lady wouldn't get nipped by horses is the popular version around my neck of the woods.

 

[youbet]

It would be interesting to hear from some of the single guys .Do they always expect to pay for dates even if it is a long term relationship or would they be glad to share and if they were uncomfortable with going dutch would they want the woman to compensate in other (not that way ) ways such as having him over for dinner .Just wondering ?

I can't speak to this from personal experience, haven't been single for 37 years, but I do have three buddies who became single during the last few years. One is a widower, the other two divorced. All late 50's.

They all re-entered the "dating world" assuming they'd be picking up all expenses, but got over it very quickly. Now, all three have "special friends," whom they don't plan on marrying and who pay their own way on dates or while traveling. Seems to work fine.

In two cases, they split bills at the time they occur. In the other case, she's old fashioned and prefers the gentleman to handle bills when they're in social situations, etc., and just writes him a check to cover her share from time to time.

All the guys agree it's great to be able to afford to do much more, especially travel and expensive entertainment, with the lady paying her own way.

 

[starter82]

In a serious LTR, it seems reasonable for each to contribute at least very roughly according to their incomes.

Sounds a lot like socialistic dating.

 

[Zoocat]

OK, I'll be honest...the guy had other faults that I couldn't stand either, so the coupon was just the dealbreaker, in other words. But it does look cheap to most women.
Hint: Don't use a coupon on a FIRST date, fellows. Just my 10 cent advice in case the gal doesn't admire your frugality with her.

Yes, there are a few deal breakers on first dates, and one of them is using a coupon to pay for the meal. Another one is being demanding and/or borderline rude to the waiter or leaving a cheap tip. But those may be my own prejudices.

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

He has some ideas I totally agree with, but some I think are just over the top for me like the restaurant thing. I agree it can be a waste, but I am thinking quality of life...and I love to cook and to eat. He's probably thin and skinny, and isn't into food that much, anyway, I would guess.
I particularly loved the "live with your parents" idea. So, you mooch off your parents and let your girlfriends pay for their own things...mmmm, what a catch! (And I say that rolling my eyes sarcastically...)
But he does have some good ideas, and this was a good read. Thanks!

If he eats at fast foot restaurants, he may not be that health conscious. LOL, I said fast foot. Well, judging by how many burgers I dropped on the filthy floor and picked right up to serve the customers while I was working at McDonalds, fast foot isn't too far off.

BTW, he also tells others to not have kids but has a kid himself. Strange dude.

He also has some interesting ideas on being a crew. Man, that's like being a servant 24x7. Dealing with rich people (I'm not talking about the folks on this board. I'm talking Tom Perkins of Kleiner Perkins rich.) is about as close as you can get to serving modern kings and queens. No thanks. If you're a dude, fine, you'll just have to eat your humble pie because your $100,000 salary is what your employer's portfolio threw out in the last minute. If you're a hot chick, get ready for trouble.