Inexpensive Retirement in Southeast Asia

[Nords]

I hate heat and especially humidity, I question if I could survive in that environment. I adjust to summer heat but I never can adjust to humidity in fact once the dew point hits 60 I wilt and find it oppressive to be outside. Summers here find the dew point always in the 60's and 70's is quite common, I hate summers but I do like winter. As I said I can adjust to heat especially dry heat. Is Thailand always humid, I'm sure it is always warm? Is a/c common or not?

Living in a tropical climate is different than living through a tropical season. Your body needs a year or two to adjust to the new conditions, and the changing seasons move too rapidly to let you adjust.

We see it here in Hawaii all the time. The first year people are complaining about the heat, the humidity, and the dehydration. The second year they're only complaining about how "cold" it gets in January.

I lived for much of my life in Pittsburgh (where I grew up), Annapolis, and Holy Loch, Scotland. I understand cold weather and I was pretty well adapted to it. But after living full-time in Hawaii for just four years, going to San Diego in August was sheer frigid torture. The next three years in SD got a little better every year, but when we moved back to Hawaii we went through another year of hot/humid/dehydration before we re-adjusted.

After living in Hawaii for 20 years, going to Grand Junction in December darn near killed me.

 

[LARS]

Great thread. Thanks to the OP for posting. While I doubt I’d every live fulltime in Thailand it is great to hear your experiences.

Still fondly remember my visit. Wonderful place.

 

[arebelspy]

The wife and I have been looking at retiring in Belize (central america). It's basically the Caribbean.

Tropical weather similar to Florida. Amazing scuba diving.

The biggest plus: they speak english. The only country in south america that does. Spanish as well, obviously, but their national language is in English, all signs are in english, it's taught in the schools, etc.

The biggest downside: it's not THAT much cheaper than parts of the US. Depending on how and where you live here and how and where you live there. But even a place right on the beach can be crazy cheap. (watch out for hurricanes.)

This is a good site with info: http://www.belizefirst.com/livehome.html

We've looked into retiring in a place like Thailand or the Philippines, but the draw of not having to learn a new language is pretty strong. Plus beachfront property in Belize would be a bit nicer, I'd imagine. Been reading some Belize books from the library, etc. Planning a trip there next summer. Belize city seems dangerous, the rest of the country seems good.

Worth looking into if you like the idea of retiring overseas but don't like the idea of language issues...

 

[Sandhog]

According to their posts, some of our members in the U.S. manage to live pleasantly on far less than either of the above. It doesn't cost much for a single person with a paid off home and retiree medical benefits to live in some parts of the midwest and south. Plus, in these regions English is spoken (well, more or less? )

But where can a single lonely old man can have a 30 something live in girlfriend attend to his every needs for less than $400/mo.?

 

[nun]

Great thread. Thanks to the OP for posting. While I doubt I’d every live fulltime in Thailand it is great to hear your experiences.

Still fondly remember my visit. Wonderful place.

Retiring abroad can be fun if you are healthy and no too old. Unless you really asimilate and get a new family I see most expat retirees running back home when they get ill or cannot get down the stairs anymore

 

[kcowan]

Plus, in these regions English is spoken (well, more or less? )

Do you know the difference between a Cajun and a Canajun? NA!

 

[youbet]

I see most expat retirees running back home when they get ill or cannot get down the stairs anymore

Running back home to who?

 

[kcowan]

The second year they're only complaining about how "cold" it gets in January.

We nearly froze December through March in PV this year. Daily highs were around 75 degrees but the killer was overnight temps in the range of 56 to 66 and high humidity (over 70%). Normally it is a dry cold with higher daytime temperatures.

 

[Enuff2Eat]

Have you seen any Asian or Black American retired in Thai

 

[Pete44]

Have you seen any Asian or Black American retired in Thai

I don't see many Americans...period! The place is lousy with Ozzies and Brits.

The Thais do like Americans, probably because of our scarcity and reputation from the entertainment business, we're #1. They think everyone from America should be big. I really do get favorable treatment from the ladies. (As if I need it being a handsome man. Then again we're all "handsome man".)

I have a black friend who visits. Chocolate man doesn't have any problems.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

I adjust to summer heat but I never can adjust to humidity in fact once the dew point hits 60 I wilt and find it oppressive to be outside.

I used to be a heat wimp who hated the humidity more than the heat. If I can adapt to the tropics, anybody can. Born and raised in Southern California within 2 miles of the Pacific where air conditioning was found only in cars. Most people thought 80 F was perfect summer day, I thought 70 F was perfect.

A month ago I joined a friend from home for part of his trip in Thailand. One day we walked about 150 yards at noon hauling carryon sized luggage. At the end he was literally dripping sweat while I just needed to grab the front of my shirt and pull it away from the body a few times to force the hot humid air out. Back home he tolerated heat much better than I did.

oops I just noticed the blog is someone elses.

And I think that's my blog you were referring to. I'd be happy to answer your list of question, if you wish.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

Have you seen any Asian or Black American retired in Thai

None, but where I live there are only a handful of Yanks.

 

[Sandhog]

Have you seen any Asian or Black American retired in Thai

In Bangkok, there is a large Japanese retirement community. I reckon it's cheaper to retire in Thailand than in Japan.

 

[nun]

Running back home to who?

Sons, daughters.........etc, old friends and Medicare.

I would hope that the expat retiree would fully integrate into their foreign home, but experience tells me that it seldom happens, particularly latter in life.

Also be aware that if you stop paying your Medicare Part B, if you return to the US the premium will be increased by 10% for every year you did not pay it.

 

[Enuff2Eat]

thanks guys for the bad news. Well, there goes of my dream to retire in Thai. If you don't see Asian American there then there is no hope for us. I guess we will stay here and enjoy Walmart, Targets and Mega Mall as part of our early retirement activities. :-(

 

[nun]

IMHO most expat retirees don't really grasp that they will be living in a foreign country. They see it as an extended vacation. Actually LIVING abroad takes a change in psychology that few make and it causes many to return after a few years or when health issues start.

 

[kevink]

Having actually lived as an expat for two years and facing the prospect of likely doing so again I disagree Nun.

Yes plenty of folks do end up returning for the reasons you mention, but plenty more are making the transition from visitors/snowbirds to full-time as the U.S. economy tanks and the health care and insurance debacle unwinds. I know a half-dozen couples at Lake Chapala in Mexico in their late 50's or early 60's whose spending on rent and food combined (in one of the most expensive parts of Mexico) are less than the health insurance or Medicare premiums they paid back home.

Insurance aside, as we get older many of us want or need to be in group living situations where varying levels of care and assistance are available. Unless you're wealthy, assisted living or nursing home care in the U.S. will wipe out your assets in short order, and I don't think we need to discuss the level of care or atmosphere of most such places. Meanwhile there are probably about a dozen such facilities at Lake Chapala alone offering 2-3 meals a day and access to skilled care for $1100-1400 a month inclusive, with a lake view, year-round highs in the high 70's to low 80's, lows in the 50's and bird song, orchids and bougainvillea all year.

Americans in general are incredibly phobic (and uninformed) about life in other countries and our media does a great job of fueling this with fear-mongering and misinformation. Of course 95% of us will stay put at home close to friends and family, but for those with financial limitations, a spirit of adventure or both, there are other options out there well worth looking at.

I really appreciate Pete and It Don't Mean a Thing sharing their adventures as I think more than a few of us Boomers are going to want to or need to explore the option of low-cost retirement outside the U.S. given what's happening at home.

 

[nun]

Having actually lived as an expat for two years and facing the prospect of likely doing so again I disagree Nun.

Yes plenty of folks do end up returning for the reasons you mention, but plenty more are making the transition from visitors/snowbirds to full-time as the U.S. economy tanks and the health care and insurance debacle unwinds.

I agree that some people make the transition well, but even amongst those that stay abroad there is often a feeling of "us and them" that prevents the expat from integrating into the local society and having a really fulfilling retirement. Getting involved with the local community makes life so much richer, I wonder how many US expats support their local Mexican soccer team.

I have been an expat for 25 years. I did it when I was young so I had an easier time integrating into US society and making friends, but that's the key.....you actually have to live in a society to be truly happy rather than just using it for inexpensive services.

 

[kevink]

I have a contrarian view on this issue based on our extensive travel and on talking with as many expats as possible. Rule number one for whether a retirement locale is going to be deeply fulfilling, it seems to me, is whether you (or both of you if a couple) have at least a few truly close friendships and a sense of community. That applies whether retired here or overseas.

Very few who ER overseas or move there at a more normal retirement age "go native." Exceptions are typically folks who were posted overseas on business and became fluent in the host country's language and culture, or who marry into it (the only Americans I know who speak Thai are married to Thai women!).

For the other 95% even if they learn the language (and very few do, even in Mexico which has an easy language to master and is very forgiving about mistakes) their common history and interests are with their fellow expats, and that's who they spend 80% of their time interacting with. That's why it makes all kinds of sense to move to a place with a large enough expat community that you have a good chance of finding a sub-community with deep common interests. Hopefully you learn enough of the host country's language to speak respectfully to vendors, negotiate the transit system and local bureaucracy but you're not likely to be discussing the book you just read or joking about what you just watched on English-language cable TV with you newly-made Thai (or Mexican) friends. The history is not there and they have far more complex and deep social obligations of their own to deal with.

This is even truer in cultures you might think less foreign. I've seen several people with the means to do it move to villages in Tuscany or the south of France and even with fluent language skills they have no chance of penetrating those cultures. Great places to visit, tough places to live. Mexico by comparison is easy, Thailand much harder but at least there you know from the outset that your skin color alone guarantees you'll never be anything but an outsider.

 

[haha]

I have a contrarian view on this issue based on our extensive travel and on talking with as many expats as possible. Rule number one for whether a retirement locale is going to be deeply fulfilling, it seems to me, is whether you (or both of you if a couple) have at least a few truly close friendships and a sense of community. That applies whether retired here or overseas.

Very few who ER overseas or move there at a more normal retirement age "go native." Exceptions are typically folks who were posted overseas on business and became fluent in the host country's language and culture, or who marry into it (the only Americans I know who speak Thai are married to Thai women!).

For the other 95% even if they learn the language (and very few do, even in Mexico which has an easy language to master and is very forgiving about mistakes) their common history and interests are with their fellow expats, and that's who they spend 80% of their time interacting with. That's why it makes all kinds of sense to move to a place with a large enough expat community that you have a good chance of finding a sub-community with deep common interests. Hopefully you learn enough of the host country's language to speak respectfully to vendors, negotiate the transit system and local bureaucracy but you're not likely to be discussing the book you just read or joking about what you just watched on English-language cable TV with you newly-made Thai (or Mexican) friends. The history is not there and they have far more complex and deep social obligations of their own to deal with.

This is even truer in cultures you might think less foreign. I've seen several people with the means to do it move to villages in Tuscany or the south of France and even with fluent language skills they have no chance of penetrating those cultures. Great places to visit, tough places to live. Mexico by comparison is easy, Thailand much harder but at least there you know from the outset that your skin color alone guarantees you'll never be anything but an outsider.

I have never tried to be an retired expat, but I have lived and worked in Latin America, and I think that you are largely correct. Men who understand the local customs and who are willing to get married may in a sense buy a family and in most places other than the US, the family is the axis around which other social connections revolve. In Latin America though, one reason you might have been attractive to a prospective marriage partner is that you can get her and perhaps over time her family into the US.

Less formal sexual relationships may suffice, I don't know because my time down there was too long ago, and things have changed greatly. One thing I do believe is still true, Americans are likely not to fully understand social and class and perhaps color distinctions of other cultures. And of course, American men are likely to be dismissive of such things, even if we did have a clue what they were.

This is not to say that becoming part of an expat community where these are large enough might not work fine for many. After all, that is what is going on in the US right now. We have Mexican communities, Cuban communities, Russian communities, Ukrainian communities, Chinese communities, Korean communities etc. Want to feel left out? Just be an unhyphenated American and move into one of these.

Ha

 

[nun]

I have a contrarian view on this issue based on our extensive travel and on talking with as many expats as possible. Rule number one for whether a retirement locale is going to be deeply fulfilling, it seems to me, is whether you (or both of you if a couple) have at least a few truly close friendships and a sense of community. That applies whether retired here or overseas.

Very few who ER overseas or move there at a more normal retirement age "go native." Exceptions are typically folks who were posted overseas on business and became fluent in the host country's language and culture, or who marry into it (the only Americans I know who speak Thai are married to Thai women!).

For the other 95% even if they learn the language (and very few do, even in Mexico which has an easy language to master and is very forgiving about mistakes) their common history and interests are with their fellow expats, and that's who they spend 80% of their time interacting with. That's why it makes all kinds of sense to move to a place with a large enough expat community that you have a good chance of finding a sub-community with deep common interests. Hopefully you learn enough of the host country's language to speak respectfully to vendors, negotiate the transit system and local bureaucracy but you're not likely to be discussing the book you just read or joking about what you just watched on English-language cable TV with you newly-made Thai (or Mexican) friends. The history is not there and they have far more complex and deep social obligations of their own to deal with.

This is even truer in cultures you might think less foreign. I've seen several people with the means to do it move to villages in Tuscany or the south of France and even with fluent language skills they have no chance of penetrating those cultures. Great places to visit, tough places to live. Mexico by comparison is easy, Thailand much harder but at least there you know from the outset that your skin color alone guarantees you'll never be anything but an outsider.

I think we can agree to disagree. The idea of living in a little expat ghetto strikes me as terrible.....and being forced to live with other retirees also gives me the creeps. I want my retirement to be spent living in a community that is diverse and not self selecting for nationality and time of life. Others will disagree. I will be leaving the US when I retire for many of the reasons you mention, healthcare being at the top of the list. But I'll be returning to the UK where I have friends and family and obviously a knowledge and affinity for the culture. However, I don't minimize the difficulty of adjusting. After 25 years in the States and becoming a US citizen I am neither wholly British or American.

 

[Nords]

I have a contrarian view on this issue based on our extensive travel and on talking with as many expats as possible. Rule number one for whether a retirement locale is going to be deeply fulfilling, it seems to me, is whether you (or both of you if a couple) have at least a few truly close friendships and a sense of community. That applies whether retired here or overseas.
This is even truer in cultures you might think less foreign. I've seen several people with the means to do it move to villages in Tuscany or the south of France and even with fluent language skills they have no chance of penetrating those cultures. Great places to visit, tough places to live. Mexico by comparison is easy, Thailand much harder but at least there you know from the outset that your skin color alone guarantees you'll never be anything but an outsider.

It might be appropriate to give the expats a bit of a break. Part of the issue with "going native" is that your new neighbors will always be a tad suspicious of your short-timer's carpet-bagger attitude and your possible lack of commitment. They have lots of family and local ties, while all of yours may be elsewhere. What's keeping you in their community? What if you have to care for your aging mother, or help out with your sister's kids?

We see it time & again in Hawaii. The most notorious example is McAfee, who made a big splash on Molokai with his promises to help the local community. A few years later he'd abandoned the island and his real estate was up for auction. (Admittedly his behavior was a bit extreme by anyone's standards.) Murdoch is not exactly making friends on Lanai with his tourism and alternate-energy plans. "Eccentric" Japanese billionaire Kawamoto continues to neglect his Kahala real estate, much to the frustration of his neighbors. Even "good guys" like Pierre Omidyar and Tom Fargo are viewed with caution due to their ability to influence the local politicians, businesses, and non-profits.

A submariner turned realtor who's been here since the 1970s told me that he prefers to hire veterans for his agency. They all swear that they want to spend the rest of their lives here, and some of them even retired from the military to stay here. Yet 10 or 20 years later they're moving to the Mainland to live near their grandkids or to take care of their aging parents.

I'm not sure why, but some musicians tend to blend in here quite well. Exhibits "A", "B", and "C" are Mick Fleetwood, Willie Nelson, and Jimmy Buffett. (True, they're not full-time.) But that doesn't work so well with all musicians. Maybe it's musical style, age, or gender.

Even after 20+ years here I may no longer be malihini but it's a stretch to consider that I'll ever be "local". I've lived in Hawaii longer than I've ever lived anywhere else but I'll never be kama'aina. Even now I have to occasionally think about where I'm going to be that day and what style of clothing I'm wearing so that I fit in. (I'll probably keep my ponytail as long as I can twist a scrunchie into it.) For example it's not a good idea to wear "Oahu" t-shirts on neighbor islands, and many old-timer North Shore surfers don't think there's anything funny about black shorts or "Da Hui". I don't wear military fashions like command t-shirts or Navy ballcaps. I only wear my USNA ring if I'm going to be in a roomful of ring-knockers.

Maybe starting a local business or charity would help expats reassure their new neighbors. Perhaps owning a home (where possible) and considering it their primary residence. I think the only way an expat could be truly accepted in the community would be marrying a local followed by sending their kids to local schools. Even then the local spouse would be viewed with a slightly skeptical attitude for their transgression of marrying an expat...

 

[Webzter]

This is even truer in cultures you might think less foreign. I've seen several people with the means to do it move to villages in Tuscany or the south of France and even with fluent language skills they have no chance of penetrating those cultures.

Heck, this is even true if you're born in the US and move to certain US states. Trading war stories with others who have moved to Minnesota, it's hard to forge deep friendships with anyone who was born and raised there. Friendly, but not friends. They have their own social network and family obligations and don't have a need to expand that.

Of course, I'd imagine that to be the case in many areas (although it's certainly less prevalent here in Michigan). If someone was born and raised in an area and all of their friends and family is there, why would the actively spend the energy on an outsider?

 

[haha]

If someone was born and raised in an area and all of their friends and family is there, why would the actively spend the energy on an outsider?

Absolutely true. As an outsider, what you need is lots of other outsiders, which describes almost any growing US city, especially one with hi-tech industries.

Ha

 

[FIREd]

Absolutely true. As an outsider, what you need is lots of other outsiders, which describes almost any growing US city, especially one with hi-tech industries.

Ha

I agree. After living in the US south for 15 years, not a single one of my friends is a true southerner. Most of my friends are, as I am, "imports" from other states or other countries. Thankfully, the imports probably outnumber the natives where I live (hi-tech industry center), so I never feel like the odd man out. It's just hard to break into the local social circles. I think the same could be said of many places in Europe.