Is our attitude toward work different than general population?

ScaredtoQuit

Recycles dryer sheets
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Yet another article on how people WANT to work after reaching retirement age. (Or at least that's what people who aren't ready financially try to convince themselves of.)

Appeal of early retirement fades, and industries take note - MarketWatch

This article got me thinking though. I suspect that the people on this Board are some of the most work-adverse folk I have ever encountered. Do you think we are typical of the general population in this respect? I don't mean our willingness to sacrifice to achieve FI. I mean our desire to not want to work at all... sometimes to the point of giving up not just the "fluffy" material things but sometimes cutting into the "meaty" ones.
 
When I mention RE and get all excited about not having to work people look at me like I am some circus side show.

One thing I am certain of is I don't want to work another day in my life which is a bit difficult as I am still employed. Seems like a waste of a perfectly good day to me as I have so many other things I would like to spend my time doing.
 
Yes, people seem to think I am an alien for planning my retirement for 50 or 55! I have even been asked why I don't want to work to continue making $$$. Hmmm, and I am doing "what" now? And why? (I am sure this philosophy goes for all the w*orking board members) :)
 
Work just gets in the way of what I really want to be doing.

I took a breather between college and employment for six months. I can tell you I was so busy doing things that I could not get all I wanted to do in the day. I am ready for that freedom again. Just 8 1/2 years to go!
 
I don't know. I do many things that people would consider work, such as gardening, taking care of ten acres, cutting up trees, mowing pasture, etc. I don't mind work (physical or mental). I think I'm more Being-Told-What-To-Do-averse than I am work-averse. I just want to be able to do what I want, when I want. I have a great job, I work from home, and my boss appreciates me. But I still don't like that my schedule is dictated by someone else. That is what bothers me more than anything, I think, and is the reason I want to FIRE as soon as possible.
 
It seems that all of these articles are written about ex-CEOs or VPs that leave their globe-trotting responsibilities to either start a Napa winery or raise horses.... just your typical people......

I think these articles are written by those that want people to continue to strive for a higher lifestyle ( I mean, we're all destined to be VPs at least... if only we'd work harder!).... and continue the consumerism that's good for the economy.

I put these articles in the same category as the Ameriprise ads that show that we want a "new type" of retirement... that includes spending tons of money... because "we haven't given up yet".

The proof to me that it's all bull is that many of these articles tout how companies are afraid of losing employees and therefore are setting up part-time jobs to keep older people.
I regularly search on Craig's List for part-time ( I wouldn't mind something 10-15 hours a week if it were challenging and fun).
.. and, except for McJobs, they mostly aren't there.

If you can do a financial plan, have enough to live reasonably, and have learned that buying crap doesn't make you happier... and you learn to find happiness within yourself, why would anyone do any one thing for 40 hours a week (minimum!)... unless you really love it??

Full time jobs that people love I'm sure exist (especially for small business owners).... but it seems are rare.

Just be happy if someone who reads these articles is motivated to strive or spend more.... it's great for the rate of return on your nest egg!
 
Speaking for a guy in his 14th year of 'doing nothing in particular' they have their opinion and I have mine.

Mine counts!

heh heh heh heh - :D
 
I don't know. I do many things that people would consider work, such as gardening, taking care of ten acres, cutting up trees, mowing pasture, etc. I don't mind work (physical or mental). I think I'm more Being-Told-What-To-Do-averse than I am work-averse. I just want to be able to do what I want, when I want. I have a great job, I work from home, and my boss appreciates me. But I still don't like that my schedule is dictated by someone else. That is what bothers me more than anything, I think, and is the reason I want to FIRE as soon as possible.

My sentiments exactly! It is the idea I can't blow off work, however rewarding it may be, to do something else if the fancy took me! Well said GatorBuzz!

But I think we are in the minority in the US, those making the dream of ER a reality, because so many people lack the imagination to dream of what they would do if they weren't working. It is all they know...

Sarah
 
I enjoy the feeling of a good days work. Unfortunately, that feeling is extremely rare, almost non-existent, here in paid-employment-paper-pushing-justify-my-existence-hell..............

I can find innumerable things to work on outside of a j-o-b.
 
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This article got me thinking though. I suspect that the people on this Board are some of the most work-adverse folk I have ever encountered. Do you think we are typical of the general population in this respect? I don't mean our willingness to sacrifice to achieve FI. I mean our desire to not want to work at all...

I don't know. I do many things that people would consider work, such as gardening, taking care of ten acres, cutting up trees, mowing pasture, etc. I don't mind work (physical or mental). I think I'm more Being-Told-What-To-Do-averse than I am work-averse. I just want to be able to do what I want, when I want.

I'm not "work-adverse" at all! I'm like GatorBuzz.....I have all of my gardens and homestead to tend to, and I love it! It's stimulating and relaxing at the same time! And also like Gator, I'm very "Being-Told-What-To-Do-adverse"! Heck, I was told what to do since birth! NO MORE!!! I do what I want...when I want.......and HOW I want......IF I want to!!! :cool:

As far as the "general population" goes, almost everybody that I interact with, that aren't already retired, are quite envious of my ER lifestyle. They're looking forward to the day that they can pull the plug on their j*b.
 
I don't know. I do many things that people would consider work, such as gardening, taking care of ten acres, cutting up trees, mowing pasture, etc. I don't mind work (physical or mental). I think I'm more Being-Told-What-To-Do-averse than I am work-averse. I just want to be able to do what I want, when I want. I have a great job, I work from home, and my boss appreciates me. But I still don't like that my schedule is dictated by someone else. That is what bothers me more than anything, I think, and is the reason I want to FIRE as soon as possible.

This is my sentiment also. I have and do enjoy my job, though I'm less enthusiastic about it after 25+ years. Like Gbuzz, I get increasing enjoyment from tending to the "estate" grounds, cutting wood, and other physical things (my job is a desk job). Also, I am totally adverse to being told what/when/how to do things. My job is mostly unsupervised so that works to my advantage, but I still have to be there getting it done.

I also agree that many or most folks don't see FIRE as an attainable or feasible goal. Many people are too buried with day to day work/family issues and often over-consumption, and they can't (or often don't even try to) see the forest for the trees. They don't take the time to really think about what it might take to reduce/eliminate the need for earning so many $$$, and how they could get to FI and possibly RE. They see it as totally unattainable and futile, perhaps tending to view us FIRE types as dreamers, or even lazy, or they wonder if we won the lotto to have "that kind of money". I wish there were some way to convince them that it's worth the effort to research FIRE, make a plan, and spend a little less to attain FIRE. But I haven't had much luck with the few friends/relatives I've broached it with. To each his own.

Thanks for starting a great thread.

-AJ
 
At a college graduation commencement a few years ago I heard a speaker quote someone:

"Find the right job and you won't have to work a day in your life."

My career has been filled with the "right job" and I'm still at it. I'd like to think, however, that there is a difference between slowing the pace down and retiring. When I decide to flip the retirement switch I'd like to find the "right job" on more of my terms.
 
Another vote here for being NOT work-adverse. When I retire in a year, I'll keep working: preparing for full-time volunteer church service (refining my Spanish and piano skills), training to run the Boston Marathon again, continuing my freelance writing, doing genealogical research, enjoying my hobbies of painting and photography, and many other things.

I don't even have an aversion to my current full-time job. As a university professor, I have flexibility, freedom, enjoyable social interaction with students and colleagues, and excellent work conditions. I'm just ready to move onto another phase of my life.
 
I think the west coast attitude that we work to live rather than live to work is good preparation for ER. The notion that retirement involves sitting on the front porch in a rocker waiting to die is still hanging around even though it is far from the truth.

I always have a huge list of things to do but they get done according to my schedule not someone else's.
 
I'm BS averse. I love working and spend a good 4-5 hours a day doing stuff around the house. But I cant imagine sitting in another meeting where we argue over whose name we should use for a program. I cant imagine spending another minute working for someone who is a closet moron that cant stay in the closet. I cant imagine spending half my time dealing with [-]bullshit egos and stupid personal agendas[/-] office politics.

A lot of these folks are slow boiled frogs. They need a little time in some cool water to realize what they're up to their necks in.
 
I don't even have an aversion to my current full-time job... ...I have flexibility, freedom, enjoyable social interaction with students and colleagues, and excellent work conditions. I'm just ready to move onto another phase of my life.

Exactly. I enjoy my work and working conditions, but I have other interests on which I increasingly want to spend more time. Another phase of life as you say. And having the FI to pursue it is a great feeling.

A friend once told me "it's better to be running toward something than away from something". That seems to be a good thing to keep in mind when considering this type of decision.
 
I'm BS averse........... I cant imagine spending another minute working for someone who is a closet moron that cant stay in the closet.

The last couple of years that I w*rked, my boss started coming out of that closet.....little by little. Toward the end of my [-]sentence[/-] stay there, he was 'out' where most everyone could see. They tell me that now he's really struttin' his stuff!! :D
 
A friend once told me "it's better to be running toward something than away from something". That seems to be a good thing to keep in mind when considering this type of decision.

So true! That's why I was running to the FIRE!!! :D
 
People I know think it's pretty weird to be even considering it especially at 21. I get the awkward glances from people my age and people older then me. Talk about being the meat in a w*rk sandwich. Rancid.
 
i'm a lazy good for nothing bum but i'm ok with that. i was quick to learn that after you do what you have to do you can then, without harming others, do pretty much what you want to do.

i never took to someone telling me what to do and i never cared much for telling others what they should do. i make for a bad leader and a worse follower. though it sometimes amuses me to show people what they are doing, especially when they don't seem all too conscious of their own efforts or when they don't seem to be, say, motivated by the greater good. i try to entertain myself with humor or at least humility in that. but sometimes, to get the attention of someone running off, sometimes you have to just stick out your foot.

i could probably do all that for a living, but somehow, taking money seems to cheapen the experience for me. i'd rather trip up others voluntarily. i consider it my altruistic contribution to humanity.
 
I think we're going to be deluged in the coming years (it's really started already) with ads and articles about how boomers aren't going to sit in rocking chairs and retire, let alone ER, but how they are going to continue to work on their own terms. This is all very well and fine in theory, but I can't be the only boomer who can't write her own ticket. I've always been an employee, at the bottom of the totem pole (a sweat hog, as my boss was known to refer to us---worthy of only the cheap wine and beer, while the managers were served the good hard stuff at Christmas parties!). While a so-called professional with a master's degree in a health/human service field, I wasn't treated with any more respect at 52 with 30 years of service than I would have been as a 22 year old (in fact, even though I produced three to four times what my younger co-workers did, the managers still liked the idea of hiring younger, "energetic" workers---I still can't see that all these employers are chomping at the bit to hire older workers). So it's not work per se that I'm adverse to. It's the way workers are treated and the inhumanity of the work world (in most situations). And at a salary in the low forties, there wasn't such a strong financial incentive to stay.

The article that was linked at the beginning of the thread started off with a paragraph about Jack Welch---how in his seventies, he doesn't want to retire and is still giving speeches and writing books. Well, yeah, if I was Jack Welch, I wouldn't have escaped either. But giving speeches and writing books isn't quite a full-time job either, so that's a little misleading. And for people who have been very successful and are extremely wealthy, I can understand the temptation to continue to work in some capacity, especially if it's a fun thing like starting your own winery (although how much actual work is put into this and how much is farmed out to underlings remains to be seen). But for people to whom the work world wasn't too kind, being FIREd was my golden parachute!

I realize I'm an anomaly because most people at my salary level either have to or want to live up to every cent and don't strive towards FIRE. So you will see us less than successful boomers continue to work because there may not be a choice. And those who have been very successful may well want to continue because the rewards (high salary, respect, ego fulfillment) are much higher than the costs (may be able to cut their hours, not have much stress, etc.).

And I actually don't think many people on this board started out being work-adverse. I think most were very hard workers who burnt out or just couldn't reap any more satisfaction from working. The co-workers who I left behind may not be work-adverse in that they will work until 65 or later, but if you could have seen them in action (or nonaction, as the case may be), you wouldn't consider them very pro-work either since they weren't working a full eight hours of the day and were very good about conserving their energy (you know the type---who could spend an hour telling you why they were too busy for a ten minute task!).
 
Thread answer must be yes. The very nature of this board is people trying, and succeeding to get out "early" as we have variously defined it. It stands to reason that we as a group have a different outlook on the whole work thing. The time in life that we "GET IT" seems to be a highly variable factor. Clearly we've got members that are very young that are seeing the benefits of planning now for a early exit from the workforce. I would expect the subset we represent is inversely proportional to age.

My story began at age 43, when DW and I had the epiphany, "we don't have to work forever, we can begin planning now and retire with reasonable income (enough to cover all living expenses, HC, and a bit left over for "fun stuff") in seven years. That was nine years ago. I more than a year into this new life, I'm totally digging it dudes and dudettes!

It was very clear to the two of us that we weren't defined by our jobs, and in fact would much prefer to get along nicely without them, even though we both had important job functions that had great effect on thousands of people. We know we did well, made a positive impact on society, but we'd done enough of that. We wanted to be free, and now we are. I worked in a pretty large building housing about 1000 coworkers. I found the concept of ER to be quite foreign to the majority. I was able to convert only a limited few to the dark side, a Dozen or so, out of many, many, coworkers I talked to about this very subject.

I got and still get some of DangerMouse circus side show looks, but in the end my few successes have been very rewarding. Showing someone how they can get out of the ratrace a few years sooner is very rewarding, and the thanks the few have given me offered up some great feeling of well-being. Well far to busy to write anymore, I have a bottle of Syrah calling my name... Gots to go.


46804_Bogle_Petite_Sirah
 
Personality

I think a lot of extroverts would have problems not having a place to go each day. Many people need it to provide themselves with purpose and direction and otherwise occupy their time. I still receive job listings and toy with the idea of returning, but than I think about what it was like :p. It wasn't the work; I usually enjoyed that. It was the companies and the people. Some companies are great, some people too, but then there are also a lot of bad ones, ones that do stupid things, shortsighted ones, lost ones, incompetent ones, failing ones, disrespectful ones, etc.
 
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