Might be heading for divorce...

[FIREd]

24 replies already! I can't keep up.

Just a few points:
1) DW never showed any interest in our finances. I have been in charge of our finances the whole time and if she had tried to hide money, I'd have caught it.
2) I am not interested in hiding assets from her.
3) Yes, money is important. I may appear callous. But if I don't look after my own interest, nobody else will. My future is at stake.
4) Joint therapy is an option. For the time being, I just want to make sure that I am not overreacting.

 

[O2Bfree]

Let's choose a different day (or year) to criticize the OP for his financial concerns. He asked for our forbearance and kindness.

Personally, I have found that my mind always runs toward the practical in a crisis. Then I hate myself for "caring more about the money than about my dying sister" or whatever. It's an escape for the mind from the emotional pain. Different people handle emotional pain in different ways.

Maybe we could offer the benefit of the doubt? Just because it's the internet doesn't mean we can't be kind.

I second that. I may get pummeled for saying this, but partners seem more easily replaceable than retirement funds. I never believed there is only one Mr. or Mrs. right for each person. If my marriage were in a rough spot, my financial concerns would be running at least neck-and-neck with my desire to save the relationship.

 

[Red Badger]

The first thing you worry about is the dough?

Perhaps the first is the relationship. But if the marriage is potentially headed for the shoals, protecting the dough is a solid second on priority list. I should know. My freedom from my bridezilla cost me tens of thousands ( and didn't have to).

So, do the therapy thing, get a good lawyer, then lock down everything that is rightfully yours. My bridezilla did not want a divorce, so she sought every way to inflict pain upon me.

FWIW - DW and I are headed for year 29, it's been grand.

 

[FIREd]

Perhaps the first is the relationship. But if the marriage is potentially headed for the shoals, protecting the dough is a solid second on priority list. I should know. My freedom from my bridezilla cost me tens of thousands ( and didn't have to).

Yes, that's what I meant about money: if divorce is unavoidable, then "protecting my financial future is my utmost priority".

Saving the marriage is #1.

 

[Dreamer]

I am so sorry to hear this also. I truly hope it was an airing of grievances and that things can be worked out. I think that you are fortunate if this is your first rough patch that you have been through.

I have been married for 45 years (46 in Oct) and we have been through several rough patches. I normally travel with my friends, he travels with his friends and we travel together. I invited him to go on a cruise with some of my friends in the past few months. He then became so moody, that I took back the invitation. I am used to putting up with his moods, but did not want it to affect my friend's vacation. He suffers from anxiety and depression. He is going with his friends in August and then we need to plan something together later this fall. My cruise is not until the fall of 2019.

So, I would encourage you to do things together, but also let her do things separately too. I think it is great that you are going to counseling. I don't always think that the grass is greener on the other side. I hope that you are both able to work it out and have a good retirement.

Please feel free to vent anytime that you need to with your ER forum family.

 

[ivinsfan]

Let's choose a different day (or year) to criticize the OP for his financial concerns. He asked for our forbearance and kindness.

Personally, I have found that my mind always runs toward the practical in a crisis. Then I hate myself for "caring more about the money than about my dying sister" or whatever. It's an escape for the mind from the emotional pain. Different people handle emotional pain in different ways.

Maybe we could offer the benefit of the doubt? Just because it's the internet doesn't mean we can't be kind.

Perhaps deep down the OP thinks that it's over and he needs to figure out how to move on financially and emotionally.

In my experience long term partners are seldom blindsided by things like this.
Perhaps the spouse has talked about some dissatisfactions in the marriage and the other spouse hasn't taken it seriously enough or couldn't really comfortably make the desired changes.

Or, a spouse has simply checked out of the marriage and goes thru the motions until something or someone better comes along. I'm getting a little feeling that the OP thinks things are finished.

It's hard to separate the emotional from the financial but important to do so ASAP. I absolutely agree that if his spouse already has one foot out the door, she has thought about money and assets. In fact a spouse that has no interest in finances can be a nightmare to deal with in a divorce situation.


OP I hope you find some peace and some answers it's got to be such an upsetting time for you.

 

[ivinsfan]

Yes, that's what I meant about money: if divorce is unavoidable, then "protecting my financial future is my utmost priority".

Saving the marriage is #1.

It needs to be a marriage that works for you as well, don't forget that...In fact since you say this seems to be a sudden development, you might not be the problem and no matter what you do and/or give her to make her happy, it won't be enough.

Definitely do that counseling and self check that you aren't depressed or withdrawn which could be contributing to the issue.

 

[RunningBum]

Yes, that's what I meant about money: if divorce is unavoidable, then "protecting my financial future is my utmost priority".

Saving the marriage is #1.

That's totally understandable. Good luck.

 

[audreyh1]

Really sorry about this. Sounds like a lot of talking needs to happen. And plenty of time allowed for the talking. Couples counseling seems in order - I hope you can find a good person to help you both.

 

[Dash man]

I’m a little concerned on why you’re thinking divorce just because the two of you may be hitting a speed bump. It may not even have crossed her mind.
Get counseling, talk though the issues. If neither of you have given up on the marriage it can be saved.
I was divorced 25 years ago and it was bad. I would never suggest anyone go that route. I’m remarried and just celebrated our 19th anniversary. We’ve had our speed bumps too, but have worked through them without even considering divorce. Marriage is hard work, divorce is painful.

 

[Moemg]

So sorry to hear this .Hopefully counseling will help or at least help you understand the problem better. I hope it all works out for you .

 

[gindie]

To the OP, if you and your spouse are people of faith (even just a little bit), I can attest that a program called "Weekend to Remember" (weekendtoremember.com) provided extreme value to my marriage (which was very rocky for quite a period of time).

There have been many situations where the appointment had been made the following week to sign the divorce papers, but going to that weekend away at least gave the folks pause.

 

[Live And Learn]

A couple of people have said it, so I want to re-iterate. It is perfectly fine to do things separately. DH is very happy sitting home. I need more activity. We are both introverts, but I'm more of an explorer. There are many days when he is home and I am out and about (movie, museum, etc). There are also alot of things that we love to do together (fishing, sitting outside watching the birds and the butterflies). This is one of those cases where I do really believe you CAN have your cake and eat it too !

I am praying that this ends with a newfound appreciation for each other and a marriage even stronger than before.

 

[dvalley]

So after 17yrs together she single handidly changed the terms of your mariage and decided that she now wants to live a different lifestyle? Furthermore your services will no longer be required to provide security, stability and bringing home the dough, thanks I'll take half of everything and alimony for life. Sounds familiar! I was lucky I had time to recover but I learned my lesson the hard way.

I'll bite my tongue and stop here- I wish you the best of luck!

 

[haha]

Here is useful information from someone who understands that thing about your best friend may become your greatest enemy:

Real World Divorce: Custody, Child Support, and Alimony in the 50 States


At least you have left California. See the very best divorce attorney that you can find. If wife can be deemed to be the breadwinner, much of her leverage becomes your leverage. Also, if you can consult the real fish-gutters in your area, she will have to travel farther to see others, or settle for nice people. A nice divorce attorney is about as useful as a running back with a broken leg. My separation and divorce rank up with the worst crap that i have ever experienced. But not anywhere close to the really bad things that fate can come up with.

Man-woman relationships are absolutely necessary for most men, but care must be exercised. Realize that if all she wanted was some changes, she would very likely say that, with minimum drama.

Good luck,

Ha

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I hope things work out for you FIREd. If you both decide to want to work things out, I can recommend a couple of relationship resources I've found helpful in the past -

John Gottman - research based tips. Do a Google search for

john gottman making relationships work youtube

Prep Training - science based relationship training - https://www.preptoolbox.com/\

Some of our married friends have separate interests and activities by choice and some because one is disabled. The non-disabled /extrovert usually joins clubs and does volunteer work for a more active social life so it seems to workout.

 

[Scuba]

Sorry you are going through this, FIREd. I highly recommend couples counseling. Even if you end up splitting up, my experience is that couples counseling will make the split more amicable. One focus my ex and I had in our counseling was to identify and regularly talk about things we appreciated about each other. That was a really nice thing to do. In the end for us, it was too little, too late, but hopefully that won’t be the case for you and DW.

 

[donheff]

Sorry you are going through this, FIREd. I highly recommend couples counseling. Even if you end up splitting up, my experience is that couples counseling will make the split more amicable. One focus my ex and I had in our counseling was to identify and regularly talk about things we appreciated about each other. That was a really nice thing to do. In the end for us, it was too little, too late, but hopefully that won’t be the case for you and DW.

+1 Also, I didn't react negatively to OP's focus on finances. It is pretty clear that he thought they were on the same page and was blindsided by his wife's being in a completely different state of mind that she had never communicated to him. Not surprising that he saw this as putting divorce on the table albeit without saying the word. Once divorce is introduced, focusing on your financial future becomes pretty sensible.

 

[sheehs1]

I too am sorry to read this Fire'd and am hoping it is a "bump" in the remaining road you share.

A wise person once said to me, "People can not be held accountable for words they say in anger". I guess because it is supposedly the "anger" talking rather than the real person. Take this with a grain of salt, if you will because "words" do and can hurt. Words can do damage to our sense of peace and leave us feeling unbalanced.

Definitely sit down with her for a "heart to heart", determine how you both see your future together, see if there is any interest in couples counseling, etc.

Keep us posted and we are all cheering for your marriage.

 

[corn18]

now she wants a go-go fun life with friends

This concerns me the most.

 

[marko]

FIREd, sorry to hear this.

Having gone through it 30 years ago I know it's hell. Really.

My only suggestion is to try and take a longer view than perhaps your current (understandable) tunnel vision. It DOES get better.

Whether you stay together or part, things do eventually clear up and the sun comes back out. It really will.

Hang in there. Peace.

 

[Maenad]

I too am so sorry to hear this, FIREd. I hope things get better for you both.

I also recommend couples counseling. A professional can help each of you clarify what you need and see how both of you can get your needs met and make your marriage stronger.

Even if you end up splitting, I think it can help you understand each other better, and a neutral third party can diffuse the frustration and hurt that leads to adversarial thinking.

 

[97guns]

This concerns me the most.

But the go-go fun life might be his interpretation of what she wants, she may just want to be more social with friends

 

[pb4uski]

The good thing is that neither of you mentioned divorce. It seems to me that there are loads of possibilities short of divorce... a compromise where you each move closer to a middle position... a compromise where she does more of her thing and you do more of yours in peaceful co-existence... and other alternatives.

Most couples have activities that they do separately and others that they do together... you guys just need to figure them out. How about an occasional dinner and game night with some friends as a start? Dialing up a little any hobbies that you both enjoy? A little travel that you can both enjoy.

Meanwhile, plan for the best and prepare for the worst but focus your efforts on finding a mutually beneficial compromise.

 

[ivinsfan]

But the go-go fun life might be his interpretation of what she wants, she may just want to be more social with friends

This, your spouse is probably still adjusting to FIRE after a hard charging job. If I remember you were still in your 30's when you quit working and kind of made the life you wanted.

Now your spouse has retired, moved to the South and is looking for her own form of happy FIRE. Does she want to travel more or just be out and about more? In fact, she can do things on her own but it's certainly not unreasonable to expect your spouse to do social things with you.

During the 5 years she worked while you enjoyed the Bay Area, she probably thought more then a few times when I'm done working its my turn to do all the things I've put on hold.

She might have no intention of walking out, she might just be PO'd that you aren't making enough effort to do what she enjoys the most.

This is me 46 years in, living on a farm, realizing that my DH wants to crop farm, hang out with his brother and die on the farm. Me not so much, in fact we had one of the worst disagreements of our marriage when he turned 65 and I talked yet again about a possible relocation closer to an airport, kids and grandkids and just more things to do. I understand we have different views on what comes next, but my DH looked at me and said,"you don't need to tell me what you are going to do after I'm dead",IOW to him the subject of relocating isn't even open for discussion.


He's actually a good man and we'll be together until the end, but I'm not going to pretend that I don't resent him just blowing me off with the knowledge that if he goes first, I have to empty this huge farmhouse, find myself another place to live and try to start life solo.