Not the Retirement she was looking for

[haha]

Time to chime in...partially, from a child's point of view. I experienced profound emotional and spiritual support from being able to come home from school and have Mom or Grandma there. I remember them braiding my hair for school, ironing my clothes, fixing my lunch every single day - or giving me lunch money or milk money. I remember Grandma rubbing my back until I fell asleep when I was five years old. I remember Mom caring for my skinned knees, and she was always there to referee fights between my siblings and me. Those memories are priceless. They have nothing to do with money, but they certainly fed into the strengths I have today.

I believe that the archetypal feminine has, in our culture, been devalued - and, in other cultures as well. There is nothing that can take place of a functional mother. Men friends have told me that when soldiers die on the battlefield, they don't call out for "Dad," but rather, "Mom!"

That is not to say that I was only a stay-at-home Mom. During the years I have gone to school, worked, saved, worked in a professional field - and now my DH & I have a nice retirement partially due to my efforts. Plus, I was able to bandage our son's knee when he fell down - and give lots of love to my children in general.

I have found that there is a lot more that meets the eye in any story we hear about via popular media. Anyway, my $.02....

I think you are 100% correct, but IMO that horse is long out of the barn. Usually to have confidence in this, one needs an alternate value and support system, apart from US standard issue. Like a strong religious community, which to some degree enforces or supports the social requirements for stability in the situation you describe. Also, somehow prople need to be immunized against the corrosive effects of US popular culture- something more likely in alternate groups.

Ha

 

[antmary]

I think you are 100% correct, but IMO that horse is long out of the barn. Usually to have confidence in this, one needs an alternate value and support system, apart from US standard issue. Like a strong religious community, which to some degree enforces or supports the social requirements for stability in the situation you describe. Also, somehow prople need to be immunized against the corrosive effects of US popular culture- something more likely in alternate groups.

Ha

We aren't linked to any church - we do have good friends...my SO & I, throughout our marriage, have played leapfrog with supporting each other through our processes. In my opinion, I didn't have enough quality time with my children as they were growing up - I simply had to work.

I think you are right, Ha, about the horse already escaping from the barn. But, as an underlying current for us as human beings, I believe that we do need to re-claim the honoring of feminine principles. For me, the value of a society is how well they treat the very youngest - and the elderly.

 

[Bestwifeever]

True perhaps, but for example very few new MDs have any trouble getting women, when they might not have been able to get a phone conversation with one in their pre-MD days. ...

More new MDs are women than men. Just throwing that in.

 

[haha]

More new MDs are women than men. Just throwing that in.

They likely have no trouble getting women either, if they should so desire.

Yes, I know that that are more new female MDs then men. That really is not the thread here though.

Ha

 

[FUEGO]

You have no idea what admins earn or what is reasonable for an admin to earn. I'm an admin in CA and make over $70k ...which is good money but by no means a record.

Well clearly since $70k is what admins are paid, then this lady should keep holding out for that $70k figure to come along. Long term she will be best served by holding out for the salary she is owed.

You miss my point - admins are out there looking for work for jobs that pay 30-40k. Sure, some make $70k. I even work with one who makes that much. Maybe someone will get snapped up at that rate, but there are 100 more in line willing to accept much less. Maybe California is a magical land of extremely low unemployment and there is a drought of moderately qualified admin assts out there. Dunno - stranger things have happened.

 

[Rustward]

...
You miss my point - admins are out there looking for work for jobs that pay 30-40k. Sure, some make $70k. ...

I know one that works for a little over half of the low end of your range.

 

[grasshopper]

My name is grasshopper, and I was a kept man.

 

[Nords]

What I do not undertand is that many men would tell their wives that they could quit their work when they don't have children to take care of at home. I just don't get it.
One man has a wife whose back was hurting and also had gone through some bad work situations and she felt a bit burned out. He told her she could just stay home for a while, so she did.
Another guy who had a wife who was getting paid pretty well, but she just wasn't enjoying her work. She quit her work and he was doing free lance work at night to keep up with the same spending habit.

C'mon, what did you expect those guys to say?

"So then I told her! I stood in the doorway and I thundered at the top of my lungs, "WOMAN! Get up off your dead assets and go to work!!" 'Cuz after all, we both know who's in charge here!"

I think the working arrangements in a marriage are just that-- arrangements. They involve negotiation and compromise, but you can't exactly achieve consensus by pushing people out the door in the morning and dropping them off at their desk.

My spouse felt tremendous relief at leaving active duty for the Reserves, but there was also an element of guilt. However she managed to get over that part pretty quickly.

 

[Mulligan]

That is because a 20-year-old woman thinks a 35-year-old man is ancient, and a 40-year-old man is worm food. Naturally, her perspective changes as she ages.

It is sad to see the 40-year-old guys trying to flirt with the pretty newly-hired women at work. You can almost hear the women saying to themselves, "This is a workplace, so I have to be nice; he's not actually harassing me, so I can't report him...but oh, how I WISH he'd go away!"

(Not that your advice is bad; it isn't; youthful beauty does indeed carry a depreciating value).

Amethyst

That wasn't my experience, Amethyst. I got divorced in my early 30s, being off the market, I thought my marketability would be very limited. Boy, I was wrong, those young 20 somethings loved going out with older guys in my area, and they had no intentions of marrying either. I dated a bunch of them and the 21-25 year olds never brought it up the age difference. Fast forward a few years later, I went on a date with a nice lady. She asked how old I was, and I said 41. Surprised by my age she said never had went out with someone as old as I. I asked her how old she was. She said 30. I thought for a second and replied, we got something in common already, as I have never been on a date with a woman who was as old as you are. Luckily I finally grew up (or wore myself out) and have been in an over 5 year relationship with someone only a few years younger than me at 44.

 

[MDJO]

I suspect she may receive a few job offers as a result of the story.

 

[FUEGO]

I know one that works for a little over half of the low end of your range.

That is probably more common than the $70k+ admins. Although as the other helpful poster pointed out, we obviously don't know how much admins get paid (even though I have hired enough to know).

 

[audreyh1]

They likely have no trouble getting women either, if they should so desire.

Yes, I know that that are more new female MDs then men. That really is not the thread here though.

Ha

It does imply that a lot of young women have decided to BE the MD, rather than find one to marry. In that way it's quite relevant to the discussion.

 

[bubba]

I suspect she may receive a few job offers as a result of the story.

Which (imho) was the reason for agreeing to be interviewed for the story.

 

[Lsbcal]

I'm enjoying reading all the opposing views but am a bit confused on my position.

Have we reached a consensus yet? I want to be on the winning side.

 

[clifp]

I'm enjoying reading all the opposing views but am a bit confused on my position.

Have we reached a consensus yet? I want to be on the winning side.

Me too interesting discussion but confusing.

As far as consensus goes
LBYM
Index funds except for psst Wellesley
Vanguard, Costco, Penfed

 

[Vaca]

Well clearly since $70k is what admins are paid, then this lady should keep holding out for that $70k figure to come along. Long term she will be best served by holding out for the salary she is owed.

You miss my point - admins are out there looking for work for jobs that pay 30-40k. Sure, some make $70k. I even work with one who makes that much. Maybe someone will get snapped up at that rate, but there are 100 more in line willing to accept much less. Maybe California is a magical land of extremely low unemployment and there is a drought of moderately qualified admin assts out there. Dunno - stranger things have happened.

Since I know more than a few highly qualified unemployed people who had experience this, I can say for certain, somethimes it's not that the unemployed is holding out for their old or comparable salary, most I know were willing to take 20-40K paycut from their previous position but the potential employer won't consider them and believe they will leave at the first 'better" offer. You can't even convince the potential employer that you are willing to prove yourself and work your way up; they rather choose the less experience and second rate employee than take a chance than believe they luck out and got such a qualified candidate. I actually know a few people that removed qualifications, degrees and titles that they don't believe is relevant to the new position which they are applying for. That seem to worked for 2 of my unemployed collegues.

 

[rodi]

I told both guys that we (women) would never do for them. It wouldn't even enter in our mind as a possibility. OK, I can't speak for the rest of the womankind, but well, I did to those guys.

Hmmm. I'll be the exception to your rule.
I'm a woman and I urged my husband to quit his horrible job a few years ago. The stress was going to kill him. His blood pressure was through the roof and he was starting to have what I suspect were panic attacks. I did not hound him to get a new job... the market was pretty soft at the time. And we could make it on my salary. He did go back to work about 6 months later... on his own.

He was also really good about picking up the household duties during that time that previously fell on me when we were both working... We dropped the after school care during that time and he was a very hands on dad... working with the boys on their homework, making sure they got their piano practiced, etc... He did more housework and way more cooking. That shift (the cooking part) became our new normal, even when he went back to work.

We weren't able to bank as much savings during that time - but we still managed to bank some money.

I've told him that if his current job turns ugly, it's ok for him to quit.

I figure whatever works for a married couple is ok. If having a stay at home wife works for the couple - fine. Stay at home husband, fine. Stay at home parent, fine. As long as both parties are in agreement and they have a budget that works.

 

[ShortInSeattle]

However, in our household we see marriage as a partnership. Just because one of us goes to work and earns the money, that does not mean that person is successful due entirey to his own efforts. We are a team working towards a common goal. My husband has worked long hours for many years and believe me he has not interest in coming home and washing his clothes, cooking his meals and paying the bills.

Valuable perspective DangerMouse. I totally agree on the partnership mindset and finding the combination of contributions where both spouses are happy. Contributions are much more than financial, even if you don't have kids. My DH works super long hours too, and because my schedule is more flexible (I'm self employed and often work from home) I take on most of the housework and things like getting the oil changed in the car. When we both had traditional careers managing the household was a real stressor, and it brings me a lot of happiness to have the freedom to take some of that burden from him.

I was the big income earner early in our marriage and felt pretty guilty at first shifting to a career that is flexible and less lucrative. DH reminds me that we are each contributing to our life project in important ways.

More power to you sister.

SIS

 

[Frugalityisthenewblack]

Erin Moran is broke and living in Indiana trailer park | Irish Entertainment in Ireland and Around the World | IrishCentral Joannie Cunningham broke and living in a trailer park too.

 

[antmary]

Erin Moran is broke and living in Indiana trailer park | Irish Entertainment in Ireland and Around the World | IrishCentral Joannie Cunningham broke and living in a trailer park too.

Now, maybe Erin will get a call for work from Ron Howard. It is hard for me to understand how reasonable people can get into such a financial mess. How can they bypass common sense to such a level as to drown in debt! I think I must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed

 

[W2R]

Now, maybe Erin will get a call for work from Ron Howard. It is hard for me to understand how reasonable people can get into such a financial mess. How can they bypass common sense to such a level as to drown in debt! I think I must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed

And yet, AFAIK nobody really wants to end up like this. How sad. When I see this sort of thing, all I can assume is that the person does not have the practical sort of intelligence that you, I, and others here were blessed with. Some people just cannot seem to grasp simple concepts if math, budgeting, and so on. That is not meant negatively or in a catty way; after all, there are many skills and capabilities that I do not have, including acting. If someone realizes that they are taking the wrong fork in the road, financially speaking, they can correct it but otherwise not. I think this is another one of those "There but for the grace of G*d go I" situations and actually I feel sorry for her.

 

[haha]

During her big years she was a child; someone cheated her or at least did a very bad job of hanging on to her earnings for her. That show was in syndication forever. It may still be, somehere in the world.

I think her smile shows some real spunkiness. I wish her a lot of good fortune.

Ha

 

[nun]

Now, maybe Erin will get a call for work from Ron Howard. It is hard for me to understand how reasonable people can get into such a financial mess. How can they bypass common sense to such a level as to drown in debt! I think I must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed

Realize that most people are not as knowledgeable, lucky, wealthy, thrifty etc as the people who like to hang out in an ER forum. Sometimes there is a bit too much glee on here at the plight of people who are in tough circumstances and a desire to punish them rather than help

 

[ziggy29]

Realize that most people are not as knowledgeable, lucky, wealthy, thrifty etc as the people who like to hang out in an ER forum. Sometimes there is a bit too much glee on here at the plight of people who are in tough circumstances and a desire to punish them rather than help

I've been saying this, earlier in the thread. I think we hear so many stories like this that we collectively start suffering "compassion fatigue". And so many people seem to need our help that we start "weeding them out" by assessing how "irresponsible" (according to our own definitions of responsibility) they were, and declining to assist those who don't pass that test.

I personally think we'd be a better society if there was a little more humility, a little more "there but for the grace of God go I" feeling out there, that people would realize that very few people have 100% bulletproofed their own lives and finances, and that a bad break can undermine even the best laid plans. We need to stop pretending it can't happen to us, in other words. Try as we might, our preparation and decision-making isn't so perfect that we're immune.

 

[antmary]

Realize that most people are not as knowledgeable, lucky, wealthy, thrifty etc as the people who like to hang out in an ER forum. Sometimes there is a bit too much glee on here at the plight of people who are in tough circumstances and a desire to punish them rather than help

Not so much glee, but I feel the sort of frustration I felt when my kids acted out as teenagers. It pained me to see them do self-destructive actions! I have always loved them dearly, but at the same time I wanted to metaphorically turn them over my knee (not that I could!). Luckily, they both landed on their feet....