Others reactions to your Financial Independence

[Golden sunsets]

Wow. I love the various responses to this topic. I posted the link and have not had a chance to check back since due to travel. In my own situation we, like most of the responders, never discuss our NW with anyone, but as several have mentioned, it sometimes becomes obvious by virtue of the way in which we live (not an opulent lifestyle, but one of a certain amount of affluence nevertheless). I think my reasons for posting the article, is I feel a certain amount of guilt for being in the situation that we are in, not because we don't deserve it, or didn't work hard - just because -well we seemed to always be in the right place at the right time, didn't stumble along the way and now have the great good fortune to not have to worry about finances. Lord knows there is enough to worry about in this world!

Your responses have been insightful and are the reason that I love this board. I'm a bit addicted to it.

 

[NW-Bound]

There's one more reason why I think people do not envy us. It's perhaps because they do not know our NW. Surely, they might wonder how we finance our expenses, but most people underestimate what we spend, and overestimate what we can get from investment.

For example, many naively think that one can spend 10%/yr of his investments, so that if one can have decent living for $50K/yr - which is true, but as frugal as we are, we spend more than that - then he would need only $500K.

Even my own children do not know how much we have. Though they are young adults in their mid 20s, they have not been around enough to know as we do. So, the other day, I asked them how much they thought we spent a year. Their answer came in at 50% of our actual expenses. In order to break them in slowly, I sent them a short itemized list of our actual expenses to show them that we are spending more than their gross income, and they are professionally employed college graduate and post-graduate. Small things add up!

PS. I tried to encourage my children to save for their ER, and also hinted that as much as we spend, there might not be a lot left for them. I do not think the latter will be true, but do not want them to set expectations.

 

[FIREd]

We have not shared our NW with anyone. Our lifestyle looks pretty unremarkable to the outsider, in true millionaire-next-door fashion. As long as DW continues working, nobody has any reason to believe that we are financially independent.

 

[Papa bear]

As I was reading through this thread, I'm having a hard time wondering why everyone is so secretive and closed about their financial situation.

I've always known a more open environment when it comes to money. I know what my parents have, what they made, how much their pensions and SS are since I was in college. I was taught from a young age to LBYM. To this day my brother and I are transparent in our financial goals as they are similar.

I find that as I talk about FIRE with friends, I get a lot of people who are not only intrigued, but have made lifestyle changes to catch up and achieve the goal as well.

Why not share your success and teach others??

 

[rodi]

As I was reading through this thread, I'm having a hard time wondering why everyone is so secretive and closed about their financial situation.

I've always known a more open environment when it comes to money. I know what my parents have, what they made, how much their pensions and SS are since I was in college. I was taught from a young age to LBYM. To this day my brother and I are transparent in our financial goals as they are similar.

I find that as I talk about FIRE with friends, I get a lot of people who are not only intrigued, but have made lifestyle changes to catch up and achieve the goal as well.

Why not share your success and teach others??

I tend to agree with this - to an extent.

I'm also surprised by the number of folks who don't tell their children about their net worth. I consider it part of their financial education to understand about savings/compounding/index fund investing and LBYM. But talking about what our incomes are and how we make it a priority to save, they're learning financial values. My kids are 10 and 12. Just today, driving my middle schooler to school we had a conversation about starting to invest sooner will get you to the goal sooner. But also that the earlier you retire, the bigger the nest egg you need. (It's a 20 minute drive and he's a math driven kid - so we even touched on life expectancies, withdrawal rates, etc.)

Our kids will NOT learn this is school - so it's up to parents to teach them. And the best way to teach is to show them real life... like their household.

That said - I'm also clear in talking to them that PARENTS determine spending levels. The money earned by the parents is OWNED by the parents, not the kids. And we need the money we've got set aside to retire early... not to buy them video games. They've come to accept this.

 

[NW-Bound]

When talking about financial matters, one must know the audience. To my close friend who is also doing well, I would exchange ideas about investing and saving. To people less knowledgeable, I would tell them about simpler ideas of stock investing, such as not chasing latest fads, not trying to get rich with a hot stock scheme, etc... No point in talking about things that are above their head. Some are not the delayed-gratification type, and want to have it now. What is there to talk to them about?

And when it comes to children, it depends on their financial maturity. Mine have to be broken in slowly. Once they became self-supporting adults who had their own finance to manage, they understood things a bit more. Some people never understand financial matters, no matter their age.

 

[truenorth418]

I find that as I talk about FIRE with friends, I get a lot of people who are not only intrigued, but have made lifestyle changes to catch up and achieve the goal as well.

Why not share your success and teach others??

I would be happy to share my FIRE experiences with others if they asked me. But of those who are aware of my situation, only one person has asked me how I achieved it or how I would advise others to do it. Instead, I typically encounter bewilderment, jealousy, a little hostility, or a combination of these things. The only person who asked me how I did it was my current girlfriend, who I met AFTER retiring.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I guess I really do not want to know any details about others' financial status, so I don't think they would want to know mine. I do not know what our adult children's household income is and although they had an idea what ours was and is, they don't seem to want or need to know ours (we are very close otherwise ). Why would you want to share this information?

 

[FIREd]

I grew up in an environment where talking about money was gauche and where real wealth remained unseen and untold. And I like it that way.

 

[tinlizzy]

Not FI yet but working on it.....

A couple guys I work with who are religious savers know how much money I have saved but neither one gets the nuts and bolts of how to make it last. One thinks the $350,000 he has in his 401K will be $2 million when he retires in 10 years. I told him $1 million was probably more realistic and he looked at me like I was his enemy and has been kind of peeved at me ever since. They both think that I will have it made.

My son on the other hand who also knows how much money I have, knows that I'll have a pension, still frets about me retiring early and I had to break out FireCalc and show him that I wasn't just guessing.

 

[braumeister]

The fact that I live over 1000 miles away from any other family member makes it easier.

+1
I've always felt that this is the key to happiness in this regard.

 

[pb4uski]

We have not shared our NW with anyone. Our lifestyle looks pretty unremarkable to the outsider, in true millionaire-next-door fashion. ....

+1 including DW. (She has never asked and I have never volunteered). She is blissfully ignorant.

Her and the kids know we are doing well, but not the details. Same as me with Dad - until I became his accountant.

 

[Danmar]

I think it is a very different thing disclosing your NW to your kids vs your friends or other family numbers. My daughter will inherit most if our NW. It makes sense to disclose the amount to her. Dislosing our NW to our friends or other family members would only cause envy.

 

[Gumby]

I think it is a very different thing disclosing your NW to your kids vs your friends or other family numbers. My daughter will inherit most if our NW. It makes sense to disclose the amount to her. Dislosing our NW to our friends or other family members would only cause envy.

Just so long as she doesn't end up like this girl.

Reviled 'rich girl' calls critics 'idiots'

 

[MBAustin]

I've been surprised at how few questions we get about it. I think part of it is that DH retired on disability (MS) a few years before me, and they can understand that I would want to retire as soon after that as possible so we can enjoy doing things we enjoy together while he is still able.

Our kids (24 and 21) have a general idea of our net worth but not specifics. We have told them that because their dad may need a long period of expensive long-term care, and we do not want to be a burden on them, we have invested for that purpose. We don't want them to worry about us.

 

[Walt34]

I find that as I talk about FIRE with friends, I get a lot of people who are not only intrigued, but have made lifestyle changes to catch up and achieve the goal as well.

Why not share your success and teach others??

In general, they don't want to hear it. My sisters probably could guess pretty close, but to others the idea of LBYM beyond understanding. A few years ago when I was working the last job DW let it slip to the Spendarina SIL that we were putting away a bit over $2k/month. There was a long pause as SIL tried to comprehend this very foreign concept.

Clearly it didn't take because she just bought another new car as soon as she could make the payments.

 

[Sea Kayaker]

I am likely to stop working next year at 42 years old. Many I know are destined to work until they are physically unable to do so - I am in the construction industry, and so are most of my family and acquaintances... once the body starts to fail, it is over. I have let it slip casually here and there of my intent to "retire" at 42. I generally receive some good natured ribbing about it - quite honestly, nobody believes it, and I haven't really pushed it any further.

When I voluntarily enter unemployed status (2014) I think I will receive the most flak over the fact that my wife will continue to work for an as of yet undetermined amount of years. There will undoubtedly be snickers about being a "kept man" etc... perhaps I will tell anyone who is interested that for the past dozen years my wife and I have been saving 70% of our income and building a income producing portfolio that has essentially replaced my salary.

Gauging the reactions will be interesting, to say the least.

 

[Sea Kayaker]

In general, they don't want to hear it. My sisters probably could guess pretty close, but to others the idea of LBYM beyond understanding. A few years ago when I was working the last job DW let it slip to the Spendarina SIL that we were putting away a bit over $2k/month. There was a long pause as SIL tried to comprehend this very foreign concept.

Clearly it didn't take because she just bought another new car as soon as she could make the payments.

Walt, if I let it be known that my wife and I are currently saving 9k every month as we ramp up for my ER... I think the sound of jaws hitting floor would be epic. The very thought that you don't have to spend all the money you bring in is a foreign concept in my circles.

 

[pb4uski]

....I am in the construction industry, and so are most of my family and acquaintances... once the body starts to fail, it is over. ...

The guy pouring the slab for my new garage tomorrow morning is 69 and still going gangbusters. Different strokes....

 

[Calico]

As I was reading through this thread, I'm having a hard time wondering why everyone is so secretive and closed about their financial situation.

I've always known a more open environment when it comes to money. I know what my parents have, what they made, how much their pensions and SS are since I was in college. I was taught from a young age to LBYM. To this day my brother and I are transparent in our financial goals as they are similar.

I find that as I talk about FIRE with friends, I get a lot of people who are not only intrigued, but have made lifestyle changes to catch up and achieve the goal as well.

Why not share your success and teach others??

Let me introduce you to my siblings, the "What's Yours is Mine Twins"

 

[jollystomper]

Why not share your success and teach others??

To teach others requires at least three things of the others:

1) Desire to learn
2) Willingness to make changes
3) Patience to give the changes time

I find a good number of people want the "lottery approach" - something that will quickly turns things around for them with little or no effort on their part. That is one reason why so many fall for "get rich quick" scams.

The other phenomenon I run across is some folks thinking they do not need to seek FI because *you* are FI and therefore are available to help them with their desires. For example, we recently gave a niece a nice monetary wedding gift. When her mother, One of DW's sisters, found out about the gift, she was mad. Why? Her attitude was "if they can afford to give you that much money why aren't they helping me out?" BTW, this is after providing her assistance in various ways, such as procuring free legal representation for this SIL to get her out of problematic situations.

 

[citrine]

I tend to agree with this - to an extent.

I'm also surprised by the number of folks who don't tell their children about their net worth. I consider it part of their financial education to understand about savings/compounding/index fund investing and LBYM. But talking about what our incomes are and how we make it a priority to save, they're learning financial values. My kids are 10 and 12. Just today, driving my middle schooler to school we had a conversation about starting to invest sooner will get you to the goal sooner. But also that the earlier you retire, the bigger the nest egg you need. (It's a 20 minute drive and he's a math driven kid - so we even touched on life expectancies, withdrawal rates, etc.)

Our kids will NOT learn this is school - so it's up to parents to teach them. And the best way to teach is to show them real life... like their household.

That said - I'm also clear in talking to them that PARENTS determine spending levels. The money earned by the parents is OWNED by the parents, not the kids. And we need the money we've got set aside to retire early... not to buy them video games. They've come to accept this.

I agree with you too Rodi...I wish my parents had been more open about money when I was in my teens rather than in my thirties! The only thing my Dad was adamant about was that I start my IRA's and 401K in my early 20's. It is awesome that you are having the conversations now with your children. As for DH and I with his children...it is a little touchy now since we have the ex to deal with too. However, they do know that we are catching up saving for retirement so we will not be a burden on them later. We will be transparent with them later, once the ex is out of the financial payment picture (college and child support).

 

[pb4uski]

....Why not share your success and teach others??

Sharing our approach and teaching each other is part of what this forum is all about.

In the real world, I'm also glad to share - to those who ask - but I don't want to even try to impose on others unless they express an interest. In the past 12 months I have help a good friend frame a retirement plan and helped my BIL's mom sort through what to do with a VA she owned.

 

[Sea Kayaker]

The guy pouring the slab for my new garage tomorrow morning is 69 and still going gangbusters. Different strokes....

True. We have 50 year olds whose knees are pretty much gone and a 70 year old who can out work pretty much anyone. My plan is to be out of the industry young enough just in case my body is an early-breakdown model.

 

[RitaR551]

My family has the stance that money matters are private and it's extremely rude to actually ask someone how much they make/live on. Also bragging if you volunteer the info.
I was shocked when DH and I were first married and FIL asked how much we made.

Coming from two different family views, we prefer not to let it be known how we have been able to retire nor our NW. DD is our executor and in time, we will go over things with her.

Have experienced some envy from a friend who has had a very hard life. Some through her own fault, some not. My DB has periods of seeing himself as a victim and though he doesn't know our NW, he can see we are doing OK. A divorce, legal problems, and mental health issues have pretty much kept him in the red.

I like just keeping my mouth shut. If someone asks for financial advice, I direct them to Seeking Alpha where they can do the research work just like I did.