Retirement, social life and loneliness

But it's difficult because so many of my interests are solitary, such as reading.

Tango, you remind me of myself. I've been planning for the time when SO might be gone, although I believe I will go first. I find when I try to get to know people with similar interests, their interest is always a little off from mine: I go to the opera to hear the orchestra, most people are more interested in the singing, however it is very important for me to be among people who love it. If you check out Literaturenetwork.com or the book club at Amazon.com, the discussions, IMO, are too shallow. It's rare to really click with anyone. My mom always said she visited people she didn't even like because she needed lots of people in her life. She was the one who would bring a cake over to new people in the neighborhood.

I meet two types of people on trains: those who really really want to be there and their SOs who want to fly everywhere. Lots of compromises.
 
I think that church does allow people to establish new friendships---problem is for us nonreligious types. Unitarian churches are very relaxed and don't specify a specific spiritual path---but at my local church, I found them to be very intellectual but not at all warm. All head, no heart.
Ditto your observation on Unitarian/Universalist, etc. Can be kind of excessively intellectual.

I also think a church would be excellent, but it does present problems for those of us who are or have become largely secular. I grew up in a pre-Vatican 2 Catholic parish, in a Catholic urban neighborhood in a largely Catholic city. The church and school and extended families and neighborhood all reinforced one another to create a solid feeling of belonging. Like many young men I drifted away after not long after puberty. When I tried to go back to the church, (not to the neighborhood as I had moved) it had undergone revolutionary changes. I had found it comforting and esthetically pleasing in Latin. Once I heard all that in English I wasn't so sure!

When I lived on the east coast long ago I regularly attended a big Afro-Am Baptist Church that I really liked. I might try that again, but I am not sure that the times haven't changed so much that I may not be welcome.

Every parish or congregation seems to be different, so it takes a while to visit a bunch of different churches in your neighborhood.

I do want a church that I might link up with to be within walking distance. I want to be able to join in fully, and to expect to make easy connections outside the church doors too. Nothing like proximity to enhance friendships.

Question- what is an acceptable pledge amount for a non-wealthy single person who joins a congregation?

Message to Tangomonster- Book clubs, creative writing clubs, even university or CC classes in literature or creative writing might be a fit for you. When I was 20 and a full time student at university I took a night class in 20th Century American novel. I did it because I couldn’t get a day class into my schedule. This was at an SEC school; the professor was a Jewish guy from Brooklyn who was wonderful. About 1/3 of the students were young college age, the rest all ages from the community. It was one of the best classes I ever had. These older people really had some idea about what life was about, whereas most of us youngsters were totally callow and clueless. I'll never forget the prof, or many of the older adult students. OTOH I have forgotten all the other kids in the class.

We went out for beers from time to time; it was definitely a quality social experience.

Ha
 
Joe, I appreciate the suggestion about literaturenetwork.com, but have you been on the site recently? It connects you to educationcentral (a for-profit trade school type thing, it appears). There is a good site all about books---readerville.com, but they want $8 a month to join, even just for lurking! And I enjoy the opera too---like you, I like the music more than the singing, as well as the theatre part of it. But you can't believe how many people (at least here in Atlanta, which tends to be on the superficial side in a lot of respects) are attending just as a gala dress-up night out and could care less about the music (so this extends to lots of talking and cell phone use during a performance. Once the overture started and a woman in front of us kept talking. We tried to shush her and she said "it hasn't started yet---it's JUST the orchestra!"). I do like cultural stuff very much, but it can be frightfully expensive (we started going to events at a local college where performances are free or low cost) and can be snobby (some people who are novices clap after every movement and the more experienced patrons snicker---okay, so you're not supposed to---but isn't it good that they are at least trying live performances out and supporting the arts?).

Ha, that night class sounds terrific! In terms of a pledge, all I can go by is Unitarian Universalist standards, where there isn't that 10% tithing expectation. Average annual pledge is about $1200, with some pledging much less and others much more. It seems to be a problem that people don't wind up giving as much as they pledged. Some people didn't join but were just considered "friends" and didn't make a pledge but just contributed what they wanted, when they wanted. You sound so open to all different types of worship---it must be nice to be like that and take the good from all types of traditions and practices. I just can't find any that I'm comfortable with. Buddhism intrigues me, but more to dabble in and be intrigued than to fully commit and practice it. The Unity church is flexible and open, but a bit too New Agey for me.

Maybe a generic senior center will be in the picture for me someday, but at 53, it would be a little premature (although I am considering high-energy water aerobic classes for seniors).
 
Tangomaster, Since I've had to regroup a few times in my life and find new friends I'll share what I found worked for me .I got a list of all the clubs in the area and circled all the possibilities .Some were instant losers but a few were winners . I joined an investment club , a computer club ,a newcomers club and the local Y . Even if I did not find friends something positive came from each club.
 
But you can't believe how many people (at least here in Atlanta, which tends to be on the superficial side in a lot of respects) are attending just as a gala dress-up night out and could care less about the music (so this extends to lots of talking and cell phone use during a performance. Once the overture started and a woman in front of us kept talking. We tried to shush her and she said "it hasn't started yet---it's JUST the orchestra!").
We have those people here on Oahu too. The eye candy is impressive, but they must do a lot of flying back & forth...
 
I empathize with Tangomonster! Joining clubs and organizations (which I currently don't have time to do) means taking on their culture, rituals and expectations. Some of them demand quite a high level of commitment. I'm not sure I'm ready for that. It sounds a bit too much like w*rk! Maybe the answer is to start your own club.
 
More odd adventures

This evening I was walking back up the hill from visiting the Public Market and enjoying a spectacular sunset over the bay. I was feeling good about things, as I had managed to do a good deed while out walking. An old black man was pushing his woman up a very steep hill in her wheelchair, and he was running out of steam. I asked if I might help him, he said sure, and even with two of us pushing it wasn't all that easy to get her safely to the top. Sometimes I really don't know how these people can cope, but they do.

About halfway home a small jazz club/gallery/wine bar I go to had a sign out "Tonight--Free Comedy Show". So I went on home and made dinner, showered and dressed and headed back down the hill to catch the show. I had hoped to get there a little early so I could sit on a couch up on the balcony and avoid ringside banter. No such luck. The place was full when I came in, and the MC says, "You sir, the old gentleman, come right up front." Great, but I guess if you are 30 years older than the next oldest you have to expect some flack. Fortunately, they grew tired of Viagra, Geritol and walker jokes at my expense, and spent most of their time annoying a woman sitting next to me with a very low cut dress and boobs about the size and shape of muskmelons.

Some of the comics were really good and I laughed a lot. Toward the end a heckler dressed in an East German Army Uniform showed up. It got zanier and zanier from there. A guy with a very fancy waxed moustache was introduced as the “2007 world champion free-style moustache contest winner, crowned in London England.”

When the show was over I happened to leave as he did, so we walked up the hill together. He talked about being the World Champion Free Style Moustache Champion. I could tell that this was a big win for him, maybe the high point of his life. I kept expecting that he would at least feign some sort of ironic distance, but it didn't happen. This would be about like Dr. Enders telling about how it felt to get the Nobel Prize for cultivating the polio virus. He said people took his picture every day. I could understand the appeal of this, as no one takes my picture. Then he told me that he was going to shave it off, even though he liked it very much. I asked why. He said because chicks don’t really like it. They just like to take pictures of it, but he feels that they don't really like it because they never want to kiss it. Right about then his path diverged from mine, and I was left with that kind of sad realization. Here is the World Champion Freestyle Moustache Man, and although he loves his achievement and his role, he is going to throw it over in hopes of winning a woman’s kiss.

We men are pitiful, but in a noble kind of way.

Ha
 
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Now ferco woulda said "get to the point"! ;) :rolleyes: :)

I helped a guy and a lady in a wheelchair. I went to a comedy show and I met a moustache champion. The end. Ha.

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I love this description of your exploits.. more please! You could be an excellent prof. writer and be published yourself if you wanted to put something together.. maybe short stories about men and life and loneliness. Or local "human interest" interviews. You really plucked my heartstrings with the Moustache Man.. I wanted to kiss his moustache for him! :-*
 
Re: church. The Catholic church DH and I started (for me re-)frequenting in the US didn't have any organized pledging. I think that would have turned me off. I usually gave $20-$25 everytime we showed up and a few hundred for some of the special collections; it probably worked out to $1200-1500 or so in all -- I never tracked it.. But I would have felt equally comfortable giving less if that's what my finances permitted. Except for the bigger checks 1x-2x/year I gave cash and it was anonymous. I liked that freedom. I don't think it's right to be sizing people up and reckoning what they "should" give. It has to come from the spontaneous desire to give as much as the means.. plus who knows what other charities people are supporting outside the church structure?

[We dislike the priest here and tend to avoid services.. and donate to other causes.]
 
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I love this description of your exploits.. more please! You could be an excellent prof. writer and be published yourself if you wanted to put something together.. maybe short stories about men and life and loneliness. Or local "human interest" interviews. You really plucked my heartstrings with the Moustache Man.. I wanted to kiss his moustache for him! :-*


I also love the stories . I never really appreciated how lonely guys can be . I thought since there are soo many more older woman than men that you'd be beating women off with a stick .
 
We've had terrific luck meeting lots of friends from the very simple (and low gear needs/low maintenance) past time of bird watching. In any community we show up, it means instant friends and instant depths of mutual experience to feed enjoyable conversations. The organizations that cater to bird watchers and nature lovers tend to be very open and easy to interact with. There is always a nature hike/bird walk scheduled somewhere we can join. When we were stuck in Albuquerque last Xmas, we attended a regular bird walk followed by the annual Xmas party - so even marooned we met several nice folks. We always make it a point to visit the local park naturalist when we are in a state/federal park. It helps that we give away our nature photos!

One interesting thing too is that we have developed a very close relationship with a bird watching/park naturalist volunteer couple that is our parents age, but the generation gap doesn't seem to be there at all. We really enjoy each others company. Besides being bird watchers, they have also been full time RVers and lived for 20 years in a sail boat. So it's really more several strong mutual interests bridge the age gap among other things.

There are several other people with whom we have close long term friendships that came out of bird watching or nature photographing interests. Some of these folks are quite famous in their field/community.

I guess I'm convinced that if you have a strong interest or two or three, pursuing/cultivating those interests and then reaching out to the community that shares those interests, you will find people whose company you really enjoy, and it will be mutual.

It's a lot easier to do that these days with the internet.

Personally, if I didn't have strong interests, I don't know how I would socialize, because I really don't enjoy socializing for it's own sake and never have. But when I have something in common with people, I enjoy it tremendously.

I also found out by doing group travel (small groups only), that if we traveled with a group of bird watchers, or nature photographers, or nature enthusiasts, we usually had a terrific time regardless of the disparate backgrounds of the attendees. Of course the tour leaders were experts in the area and that also made the trips very enjoyable. The ONE TIME we signed up for a more generic tour to a particular destination we were bored to tears with our fellow travelers and tour guide. We had absolutely nothing in common. NEVER AGAIN - I learned a very valuable lesson. If that had been the first group trip we had ever I probably would have never attempted another, but it being the 8th or so, I was able to look back and figure out the vast difference!

OK - long winded. But what the hay.....

Audrey
 
beard1_big.jpg
 
OK, this is great. Go to this

World Beard & Moustache Championships 2007 | The Winners

page down and find Keith Haubrich, aka Ghandi Jones. This is my man, the one who craves kisses.

He also told me about some beard competitors, including one who had London Bridge sculpted into his beard. :)

Ha

This is hilarious! How do these guys go to bed at night? Gives a new meaning to "bad hair day"!
 
Audrey, interesting observations on bird watching. Any web sites you'd recommend?

Today several quail hit our windows, probably due to the hawks that seem to be around here now. We have some streamers next to the windows but when they panic nothing seems to help. One quail didn't make it. When that happens I generally put their little bodies out on some rocks behind our house and some beasty (vulture, coyote, whatever) has a good meal.

Les
 
Streamers at the windows is probably the best you can do. There are also decals you can put on windows, but streamers should work even better. Anything to cut down the window reflection.

I follow "texbirds" - a list server for bird sightings in Texas. TEXBIRDS Archives - October 2007

Otherwise, bird watching is really a get out there and do it kind of thing. Contact your local Audubon Society or Nature Center to find our about guided bird walks, etc.

Audrey
 
There are also decals you can put on windows, but streamers should work even better. Anything to cut down the window reflection.
I've never used streamers, but our decal experience appears to indicate that you should go with the streamers.

I've put up the decals that are supposed to radiate in the UV, and we've had stupid @#$%ing zebra doves do faceplants right into the decals. At least the sparrows & mejiros have the grace to hit somewhere else on the pane.

Zebra doves must be born pregnant, because they seem awfully stupid to be able to survive long enough to complete an entire gestation cycle.
 
Not into bird-watching on a serious basis (but I do love having birds around). My old standbys were the usual East Coast robin/cardinal/finch etc. Here there are the giandaia (the "acorn-eaters" - seem like a kind of jay but I guess they are more a crow), the "merli", a sort of black-bodied yellow-beaked thrush/robin that is camped out seriously full-time and eats all our cherries, with great varying songs; what they call a 'pettirosso" (redbreast) but a different, much smaller, bird than an American robin, mini-chickadee type "blue" jays (probably a type of "tit"?).. It's all very complicated, especially when, sometimes, I ask a native "what kind of bird is that?" and they say "a bird."

We had a migrating African-based hoopoe come in our house. I was surprised, and honored, given how intriguingly patterned he/she was.

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On our inside windowsill.
They call it the hoo-poe.. because it goes "HOOO POOO"
 

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....church DH and I started (for me re-)frequenting in the US didn't have any organized pledging......
......I don't think it's right to be sizing people up and reckoning what they "should" give.

It has to come from the spontaneous desire to give as much as the means..........

How right you are on that point.

People shouldn't get the wrong idea about church, and should not think first off the bat "how much need I pledge" before they even think about going to church.

Go to church to find fellowship, to listen to the message, to study, to find ways to volunteer, to be a listener to someone who needs someone to talk to, to simply congregate with others, to meet people from your neighborhood and from the larger neighborhood of your area.

Don't worry about pledging going in. Those who welcome you in as a visitor won't be worrying or thinking about it. They will simply be glad to see your "new" face.

Pledging *is* a spontaneous thing. After time, as you are so moved, you can of your own accord donate your time, talents, and/or money as you feel appropriate.

I'd just say as to church, try it. Forget the money-pledging worries, since you will likely be the *only* one worrying about that topic.
 
Ladelfina, that is one strange (but beautiful) looking bird! I looked it up in Wikepedia which said: "They spend much time on the ground hunting insects and worms. That diet may have been among the reasons the Hoopoe is included on the Old Testament's list of unclean birds." I've never met an unclean bird :2funny: .

What general area of the world are you located in? Europe, Asia, Africa ...?
Just curious.
 
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