Solving problems at work rather than RE

[firenow]

I took off this week from work and am trying the early retirement life. I always hated work and even school. I love the learning and growing part of school and problem solving and being productive parts of work. But I dislike two things mainly both about school and work;

- The fact that my freedom / time is in someones hands. E.g., That I have to be there at 9 am in an office setting
- Dealing with aggressive colleagues and bosses

I was always frugal and also loved accumulating money and hate losing it by stopping working. This one week so far I am realizing that instead of sitting and browsing all day, I am liking more to go out and drive uber. It feels like free money and my greed is telling me "go out and get some more". I also like the fact that I can hang up or do it on my wish. Nobody is there to tell me that I have to be there by a certain time.

This made me realize I actually don't dislike work by itself. It is my time being in someone else's control and dealing with people aspects that make me want to RE.

I guess these problems are common to other people too. How to solve these problems and make working better instead of thinking about RE?

 

[stepford]

There's a reason they call it "work". If it was really fun you'd do it for free. Certainly, if you can find something to do that you truly love - and pays you a decent amount - then it takes a lot of the sting out of working.



However, every job I've ever seen involves having to care about what other people think about your performance, a factor I grew to tolerate less and less well as I grew older. Hopefully you can find a job with enough enjoyable aspects to stave off this intolerance for a few more years.

 

[braumeister]

Six months ago you said you were making $280K in Silicon Valley.

Now you're excited about the money you make driving for Uber.

Why should we think you're not a troll?

 

[REWahoo]

I dislike two things mainly both about school and work;

- The fact that my freedom / time is in someones hands. E.g., That I have to be there at 9 am in an office setting
- Dealing with aggressive colleagues and bosses

Whenever I read a "poor me" post like this one, two things come to mind:

#1 - TROLL!

#2 - Mandatory military service at age 18 might be something the US needs to give serious consideration to implementing. Firenow would really benefit from spending a couple of years in the USMC.

 

[firenow]

If you think I'm a troll, then stop responding to my threads; I don't have time to deal with people like you who keep trolling my threads. If you don't have anything useful to add, stay out. FYI, I have reported both of your posts. Mods, please take care of this unnecessary and repeated personal attacks. One of them is already a moderator, shame on him.

 

[REWahoo]

 

[RunningBum]

It's kind of surprising you have a set starting time in Silicon Valley. I thought that culture was pretty flexible. Long hours, but not specific hours. I guess $280K/yr brings more demands, and also more competitiveness with co-workers and bosses. Maybe look for something less rigorous and stressful? When I was FI and ready to leave anytime, any aggressive co-workers didn't bother me. I'd say and do what I wanted, and if they wanted to let me go, fine. I wasn't going to play their game, and I wasn't going to get trampled on. I think most people realized I wasn't a threat so they just left me alone.

My brother tried driving for Uber when he left a very stressful job. He said it wasn't worth what little money he made. I don't remember other specifics. You may be different. He did find a part-time job he really likes.

 

[braumeister]

If you think I'm a troll, then stop responding to my threads; I don't have time to deal with people like you who keep trolling my threads.

I beg your pardon, good sir.

But I would appreciate an answer to the question I raised.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Can we please make space for people that need to sort out this work/life stuff. I’ve been FI since 2009 due to a combo of my own savings and my dad’s (inheritance). Tried RE a couple of times. Ready to do it again, but want to do this

Firenow’s story is much like mine.I’ve hated having to go to work and deal with being insulted by for my dedication to ethics and not the almighty $ in medicine. I love the problem-solving but am so done with the lack of control of my time. I hated coming home at midnight from Hawaii on 12/23 and bring told I must work and be on call the next two days because it’s too busy and someone else, (male and senior) said they need the holiday off.

I’ve enjoyed helping my colleagues navigate the new EMR and make it work for them and not against them.

If I didn’t have the fear of lawsuits, I would embrace my contribution to something larger than myself. This is not a troll post. This is somebody stressing over job responsibility, which I’be done my entire career.

Please don’t call this OP a troll. Let him vent and figure stuff out here.

I get you OP. I hated most days going to work. Still do. But I’ve saved two children’s lives in the last week. Literally. It’s really hard to walk away from that.

Yes I would love a less responsible line of work. It is what it is.

 

[COcheesehead]

Six months ago you said you were making $280K in Silicon Valley.

Now you're excited about the money you make driving for Uber.

Why should we think you're not a troll?

Wait a minute, people lie and exaggerate on here?

 

[aja8888]

I smell pork or some time off.

 

[firenow]

Thanks Eastwestgal.

I see a poor practice in this forum. Not everyone but a group of people who are insecure about being trolled. It is so unfortunate. As eastwestgal has pointed out, I am frustrated and I love to talk about this stuff. I can keep opening a thread everyday as I am continuously thinking about this stuff and want to share with like minded people. I came back from driving uber and wanted to open this thread sharing my thoughts and frustration about working in general. How is it a troll? Am I harrassing someone? Am I causing any discomfort to anyone? If you are so insecure about being trolled, please ignore my threads.

This is a bad trend in this forum. Especially this is happening to new folks. I start a topic and if you have thoughts about the topic then contribute to the topic. This is not about discussing about who I am or digging up my past posts trying to imagine a story and calling me troll. What's wrong with someone making 280k wanting to drive uber on weekends? You can live in your own world where things have to happen a certain way. I'm not going to respond to questions like that. Learn to be supportive and if you cannot be, please stay out.

There have been a lot of supportive and useful people here as well but a few bad apples. I am not talking about braumesiter alone here. He did make some useful posts earlier. This is more of a general reply to all those kind of troll insecure people

 

[Aerides]

I think the general concern is there are some gaps in the story, and we do, sadly, have many great stories that end up being just that. This community has repeatedly been asked to help solve problems, only to find it was for a blog or some other total fake person.

So, to you. If I take your story on face value:

Despite hating the structure and politics of a workplace, you have a very high salary. More than 98% of us here ever did I'd wager. Expert Architect, VP of engineering, start up founder, major ad man, that sort of thing. That sort of salary is unusual for someone who has your issues, and your desires to just chill and surf and lie in the pool all day (as you posted). The kind of person who can't wait to get to the office at 7, vs. complaining about 9.

Contrast that with your joy for uber (still... have to show up at the rider's request, be somewhat personable, $30 an hour on a good day?) it seems odd to me.

There's miles of daylight in between those two options. Have you talked with a career counselor? Or a therapist? That's my honest advice on where to start.

Many of us exited the work force due to similar frustrations, but with 5, 10, 15 year plans. At 35 I could not imagine how I was going to last till 50. But I just kept showing up every day, and enjoying the parts I did, and ER'd before that. If you banked even 50% of your income over the next 5 years, you'd be in a very realistic place to downsize and cut back.

 

[firenow]

I think the general concern is there are some gaps in the story, and we do, sadly, have many great stories that end up being just that. This community has repeatedly been asked to help solve problems, only to find it was for a blog or some other total fake person.

So, to you. If I take your story on face value:

Despite hating the structure and politics of a workplace, you have a very high salary. More than 98% of us here ever did I'd wager. Expert Architect, VP of engineering, start up founder, major ad man, that sort of thing. That sort of salary is unusual for someone who has your issues, and your desires to just chill and surf and lie in the pool all day (as you posted). The kind of person who can't wait to get to the office at 7, vs. complaining about 9.

Contrast that with your joy for uber (still... have to show up at the rider's request, be somewhat personable, $30 an hour on a good day?) it seems odd to me.

There's miles of daylight in between those two options. Have you talked with a career counselor? Or a therapist? That's my honest advice on where to start.

Many of us exited the work force due to similar frustrations, but with 5, 10, 15 year plans. At 35 I could not imagine how I was going to last till 50. But I just kept showing up every day, and enjoying the parts I did, and ER'd before that. If you banked even 50% of your income over the next 5 years, you'd be in a very realistic place to downsize and cut back.

Aerides, Thanks. I see where the problem is. I neither have a blog nor make anything out of this. I love talking about this stuff. This work stuff bothers me day and night. I keep thinking about it all the time. I love sharing it with like minded people that I see here. The threads I start are not always "seeking help" category. I can see some imaginary thing like "If you have 600k by 50 years, you can retire" and start a thread about it. These are invitations for people to discuss. Infact if anything they are positive (increase the activity in the forum) rather than negative (hurting someone, blog, monetary purpose etc). Let me clarify that part out.

I am not a VP of engineering nor in any kind of management. I am a senior engineer good at problem solving and my salary is not abnormal for a senior engineer in Silicon Valley. Infact if I wanted to lead a team I could be making anywhere from 330 - 450k; It may be uncommon for someone making my salary but wanting to drive uber but it is not impossible and neither should it be the topic of my threads repeatedly. To all those people, as I have stated staying out is better than trolling my threads. FYI, in silicon valley you make 18-22$ per hour and if you drive in San Francisco in nights and peak hours you can make 40-60$ per hour. I live cheap and I love every dollar that I can make. I drove for 3 hours and made like 55 bucks today. So much fun. Nothing wrong with that. Nobody should be judged about it.

Coming to the topic of the thread (which is not by the way a problem for myself but in general problems that most ppl face), I am thinking a WFH job would greatly solve my problem #1. It is not easy to find them though. If I don't need to get ready, commute to work every day, then that itself is a big stress reliever.

I don't think there is an easy way to solve #2.

But in general if a company or business takes these common problems of people and offers solutions like below, I am sure there will be a great demand for it

- Work is given in chunks of time periods (2-4 hour blocks). You pick up the work when you want to and finish and sign off. You get paid for what you did
- Everyone works from home unless they want to come to office; minimal people interactions or bossiness. You get rated though so that there is some accountability.
- People who want to choose long term, can choose 8 hour blocks and work whole day

 

[cathy63]

There are many software engineering jobs where you can work from home as long as you are productive. In my last job, I was in California and half the group I managed were people who were working from their homes in Texas, Wisconsin, DC ... one engineer even went with her husband to Dubai and worked while he was on a contract there. We did have regular meetings and people did have to call in for those, but in between, I didn't care if they were working all night and sleeping during the day. They had to track time so we could bill the government, so 40 hours/week was expected, but as long as they got the work done and didn't hold up their teammates, that's all that was really important. Government contracting doesn't pay $280K, but it does tend to have a lot less stress than a Silicon Valley startup.

You can find wfh jobs by going to indeed.com and putting in "remote" for the location. There are various other job boards that focus specifically on wfh, but they tend to be more like telephone customer support or proofreading. I think Indeed is generally the best board for tech jobs.

Another possibility, if what you're really craving is variety, is to sign on with an agency like TEKSystems or Robert Half and take multiple short assignments. You could even go out on your own as a consultant, but you have to be willing to market yourself and that's often difficult for engineers.

 

[W2R]

If you think I'm a troll, then stop responding to my threads; I don't have time to deal with people like you who keep trolling my threads. If you don't have anything useful to add, stay out. FYI, I have reported both of your posts. Mods, please take care of this unnecessary and repeated personal attacks. One of them is already a moderator, shame on him.

Actually he is doing a wonderful job IMO. Also, REWahoo was a moderator and admin on this board for many, many years as well and is very knowledgeable about our moderation practices. He wrote a great thread about the history of the Early Retirement forum that you might enjoy reading: http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f32/the-history-of-early-retirement-org-53657.html

After 10 years as a volunteer Admin here, I resigned a couple of months ago. We have a great volunteer mod/admin team here and they work very hard and do an admirable job of keeping this forum pleasant and readable.

Anyway, I'm glad I resigned because I don't have to read this sort of thread any more. W2R over and out...

 

[firenow]

There are many software engineering jobs where you can work from home as long as you are productive. In my last job, I was in California and half the group I managed were people who were working from their homes in Texas, Wisconsin, DC ... one engineer even went with her husband to Dubai and worked while he was on a contract there. We did have regular meetings and people did have to call in for those, but in between, I didn't care if they were working all night and sleeping during the day. They had to track time so we could bill the government, so 40 hours/week was expected, but as long as they got the work done and didn't hold up their teammates, that's all that was really important. Government contracting doesn't pay $280K, but it does tend to have a lot less stress than a Silicon Valley startup.

You can find wfh jobs by going to indeed.com and putting in "remote" for the location. There are various other job boards that focus specifically on wfh, but they tend to be more like telephone customer support or proofreading. I think Indeed is generally the best board for tech jobs.

Another possibility, if what you're really craving is variety, is to sign on with an agency like TEKSystems or Robert Half and take multiple short assignments. You could even go out on your own as a consultant, but you have to be willing to market yourself and that's often difficult for engineers.

I just searched and found a couple of sites (bountify.co, koder.com) that are attempting "uber style" crowdsourced coding jobs but I guess they don't have a lot of traffic yet. May be in the future this will take on.

 

[googily]

Um, wow.

 

[MichaelB]

<mod hat on>

Why doesn’t everyone step back, take a deep breath, and then get back to the thread topic.

Just to remind folks, moderators are members first and moderators second, posting and participating like everyone else.

<mod hat off>

 

[CaptTom]

I think driving for Uber would be fun, too. No real money or future in it, but that's sort of the nature of post-RE jobs, isn't it?

As for remote-work gig sites for coding (or just about anything else,) I think the economics are against you. Too much supply, not enough demand, and coders have become a commodity. You never get rich retailing a commodity. You'll always be competing with bright people who happen to live in exceptionally low COL areas (by Western standards, never mind by Silicon Valley standards!)

So, choices are, (1) keep working and stashing away cash until you reach a point where you'd be comfortable FIRE'ing, or (2) choose a totally new career path in a field you think you'd enjoy.

As one who chose the first path, I'd probably recommend the second. Yeah, I did OK, but I know people who took a chance, and were successful and happy.

Probably the biggest deciding factor is how long you could live with a very low (or no) income. If you have commitments (mortgages, family, loans, etc.) that may force your choice. And if you don't like that idea, think about which of those you could reduce.

 

[JoeWras]

I'm on the cusp of ER (4 weeks), so this question hits home. As an engineer, I'll be looking for new problems to solve on my own terms. I have many ideas and problems outside of work that need solving, so I'm not too worried.

But I'll be FI. Sounds like the OP still needs some dough to blow. I don't know what to say except that silicon valley won't relax. It will only continue to ramp up.

And on that subject, to those doubting OP's need to be at work by 9AM. I think some people think tech jobs are completely wide open. They are not and should not be. I need to interact with people. It drives me crazy when someone thinks they can work night shift because they just feel like it. And guess what? 9AM Pacific time is one of those hours that works for Asia, Europe and N. America. Yeah, it stinks to get up "early" on the west coast, but think of the poor sucker in India ready to go to bed. The point is, 9AM Pacific is my megacorp's most popular meeting time. And that's my lunch time, damnit!

 

[CaptTom]

The point is, 9AM Pacific is my megacorp's most popular meeting time. And that's my lunch time, damnit!

At least they have an excuse. Folks at my MegaCorp home office, in the same time zone as me, would schedule noon meetings because they'd see everyone had free time in their calendars then.

I finally got wise and scheduled my own daily noon event, so I'd show up as "not available." Had to do the same for the end of the day when they started scheduling things right up to, or even after, quitting time. Most of them rolled into the office late anyway, so I never had to worry about them scheduling things too early.

 

[Clone]

Our standard day was from 7:30 to 4:00, with a half hour lunch. The factory ran 7:00 to 3:30 for first shift. After many years, they began to allow 'flex time'. You could start anywhere between 6:00 and 9:00. When I was working closely with the engineers in India, we would have intensive program review meetings from something like 10pm to 6am. That was an extra scoop of fun, but we only did that a couple times per year. It was a better compromise than going to India for a couple weeks.

 

[Crewer]

I get soul-sucking, well-paying jobs. DH had one and I got very tired of the complaints, stress and sleepless nights, etc. It was so much worse for him, of course.

He started a consulting business at age 40 with the thought that the experience would probably leave him in better position to get another job in his field should that be necessary. It hasn't been.

10 years later I took a huge severance package to work at home with him part time while kids were at home. We've loved it and it's been such a great lifestyle for us. We long ago reached FI and are past retirement age. He cherry picks jobs and is partially retired but he can't bring himself to completely retire - too much fun working and too many opportunities for international travel over the past 10+ years - just when we want to do it.

It eventually paid so,so much better than Uber ever can. All those years ago we never thought about where it would go in the long term and certainly didn't have the imagination to envision how great it's been.

You have skills beyond being able to drive. What are you waiting for?

 

[HillCountry]

Well, I will never get excited going from making $140 per hour to minimum wage. But I agree people are different.