The new way of calculating a restaurant tip

[FUEGO]

I don't really give a crap about the waitstaff. If they have an issue with their compensation, then they, like most, will probably move on to pursue more rewarding endeavors. Or possibly suggest to their employer that the pay structure reliant on tips is adequate. Not really my business (it's literally their business and the restaurant's business).

That's not saying I wish them ill, it's just that they aren't a strong consideration when I leave a tip. I can't recall punishing bad service with a bad tip in my adult life, and can't recall receiving such exceptional service that I felt like tipping more than custom demands.

To me, custom demands 15%. I'm usually not thinking too hard about the tax so I tip based on the after tax amount. Tax here is 7.75% on restaurants, so I'm tipping an effective ~16% (but I get water, so maybe I'm tipping 14% if you include a phantom value for my imputed beverage utility - sooooo complicated!!). Recently on a 2 week vacation in Toronto, I noticed tax is 13% so I ended up tipping 17%. Lucky folks there - they squeezed an extra loonie or toonie out of me.

I'll also note that we rarely dine out, and as often as not we get take out or dine at places with counter service that don't require tip (fast casual, fast food, buffets without waitstaff).

 

[ziggy29]

But if the country went to a full no tipping format, we'll be paying for service we may or may not get anyway.

Let's face it, we're going to pay one way or the other.

I agree. But isn't that the case with almost every other business anyway? Either the staff gives you satisfactory service or they don't. And if they don't, you go to the manager. Why should this one industry be any different?

 

[ziggy29]

To me, custom demands 15%. I'm usually not thinking too hard about the tax so I tip based on the after tax amount. Tax here is 7.75% on restaurants, so I'm tipping an effective ~16% (but I get water, so maybe I'm tipping 14% if you include a phantom value for my imputed beverage utility - sooooo complicated!!). Recently on a 2 week vacation in Toronto, I noticed tax is 13% so I ended up tipping 17%. Lucky folks there - they squeezed an extra loonie or toonie out of me.

The thing is, the "hourly wage" the waitstaff gets hasn't been adjusted for inflation since forever. In many states I think it's something like $2.15 per hour. So even with inflation on the menu, $2.15 per hour plus 15% a decade ago lags behind $2.15 per hour plus 15% today.

I would much rather see the staff get paid a dignified wage by their employer and relieve the customer the obligation of considering the tipping game. But unless that happens, 15% today is not the same as 15% 5-10 years ago in terms of total compensation, since the base rate they are paid hasn't been moved in a long time.

I see no justification for paying any legitimate worker less than the minimum wage. Do you?

 

[Big_Hitter]

I agree. But isn't that the case with almost every other business anyway? Either the staff gives you satisfactory service or they don't. And if they don't, you go to the manager. Why should this one industry be any different?

it's not one industry, I tip

bag guy at the club
curb check guys at the airport
bag guys at the hotel
doorman at hotel (sometimes)
cab drivers
movers
barbers
the guy that cooks my food at the mongolian place

there are lots of people that get tipped

 

[ziggy29]

it's not one industry, I tip

bag guy at the club
curb check guys at the airport
bag guys at the hotel
doorman at hotel (sometimes)
cab drivers
movers
barbers
the guy that cooks my food at the mongolian place

there are lots of people that get tipped

Fair enough. But it is the 800-pound gorilla in the room. The point remains, if they were paid a decent wage to begin with, no one would need to tip them; it would be optional, not a social requirement.

 

[Big_Hitter]

crap I forgot the beverage cart person - she gets tipped too, sometimes

 

[RetireAge50]

Usually at the zoo they say don't feed the animals so I never tip the gorilla.

 

[Sunset]

I was surprised at the support for tipping from servers on a recent call in show. They seemed to think a straight wage would be an automatic pay cut.

I see 2 reasons:
- Since in reality a significant part of tips is tax free income, a salary of the same amount would be fully taxed and therefore less in the pocket.

- As examples given above with tips a person can earn $25/hr, what employer is going to pay someone that much when they can get folks to line up for $15-$17/hr, since the skill level is: read & write a bit, and don't trip while carrying food, and don't drool..

 

[Sunset]

.....
To me, custom demands 15%. I'm usually not thinking too hard about the tax so I tip based on the after tax amount. Tax here is 7.75% on restaurants, so I'm tipping an effective ~16% (but I get water, so maybe I'm tipping 14% if you include a phantom value for my imputed beverage utility - sooooo complicated!!). Recently on a 2 week vacation in Toronto, I noticed tax is 13% so I ended up tipping 17%. Lucky folks there - they squeezed an extra loonie or toonie out of me.
.....

Since in Ontario the minimum wage is: 11.25 / hr. for waitress, same as for the ditch digger outside, I'll bet they LOVED that extra 13% tip.

ps - did you tip all the other minimum wage workers in Ontario as well ?
That is part of the issue with tipping.

 

[Music Lover]

The thing is, the "hourly wage" the waitstaff gets hasn't been adjusted for inflation since forever. In many states I think it's something like $2.15 per hour. So even with inflation on the menu, $2.15 per hour plus 15% a decade ago lags behind $2.15 per hour plus 15% today.

True, but the total bill has gone up which makes up a lot of the difference.

I see no justification for paying any legitimate worker less than the minimum wage. Do you?

I agree.

 

[FI by 2024]

I've seen this more and more, and now I look for it (at expensive places anyway) before I sit down, and I will not eat at a place that does this. It is highly presumptive, it assumes that you will get good, if not very good service (my def of 18% tip) before you even sit down. I have gotten up from a table and left after being handed a menu and reading that at the bottom.

And this past March spent a few days in Miami and was surprised to find almost every place we went did this, for any size party.

I certainly can't say this is true for every restaurant, but the two restaurants I served at both said this on the menu and never enforced it. At most restaurants all you have to do is say "I'd rather choose my own tip amount" and they will take it off the bill (or not add it if you say something before they print the bill).

One of the restaurants I worked at listed that rule on the menu, but as a server I was almost never allowed to actually add the automatic gratuity. We had to specially request permission to do so from the owner, and then only when we had evidence that they wouldn't likely tip (i.e., repeat customers with a history of not tipping). In two years working there I was only allowed to add an automatic gratuity three times.

Something to keep in mind the next time you see that. Honestly, just ask - much better for everyone because you get to eat where you want and they keep the customer.

 

[RobbieB]

I go 20% on the whole check and round up. Cash.

I'm a regular at the places I frequent and they just love me. Take good care of me too.

There are lots of other places I've been to once. Yup, I don't complain to the management I just never ever go there again.

 

[FUEGO]

Since in Ontario the minimum wage is: 11.25 / hr. for waitress, same as for the ditch digger outside, I'll bet they LOVED that extra 13% tip.

ps - did you tip all the other minimum wage workers in Ontario as well ?
That is part of the issue with tipping.

Is tipping not customarily 15% in Ontario? I think I googled it beforehand and Canadian tipping guidelines for restaurants were roughly what it is in the US Maybe it was 15-18% there, while I've seen 18-20% suggested here in the US (though the autocalculate receipts usually have a 15%, 18%, and 20% autocalculate on the receipt).

 

[FUEGO]

I see no justification for paying any legitimate worker less than the minimum wage. Do you?

I go to restaurants to eat food and have a good time with family and friends. Big picture stuff like minimum wage policy or deciding what is "fair" compensation for an employee just don't cross my mind when I'm busy eating, relaxing, and having a good time. If I wanted to deal financial policies, compensation, fairness, managing a workforce, etc., I'd probably go back to full time work. Until then, I'll keep eating at the occasional restaurant with waitstaff and keep leaving 15% (or is it 16% since I usually tip on the tax?).

I figure employees would care enough about those issues to take care of themselves and their own interests.

 

[pb4uski]

I like the wings myself...

I'm more of a breast man...

 

[marko]

My 87 year old mom eats out 5 nights a week.

To the dismay of her eventual heirs (my brother and me), she tips anywhere from 20%-50% depending on the personality of the server--how friendly they are.

I told her about this thread and she said: "Tell your friends that if they have to think about how much to tip, they should stay home!" (harumpf!!)

Just passing it on. Don't kill the messenger.

 

[travelover]

My 87 year old mom eats out 5 nights a week.

To the dismay of her eventual heirs (my brother and me), she tips anywhere from 20%-50% depending on the personality of the server--how friendly they are.

I told her about this thread and she said: "Tell your friends that if they have to think about how much to tip, they should stay home!" (harumpf!!)

Just passing it on. Don't kill the messenger.

I'll bet that she gets great service and enjoys her meals out.

 

[FI by 2024]

My 87 year old mom eats out 5 nights a week.



To the dismay of her eventual heirs (my brother and me), she tips anywhere from 20%-50% depending on the personality of the server--how friendly they are.



I told her about this thread and she said: "Tell your friends that if they have to think about how much to tip, they should stay home!" (harumpf!!)



Just passing it on. Don't kill the messenger.

Tell your mother she sounds very wise and like she is having a lot of fun!

 

[marko]

Tell your mother she sounds very wise and like she is having a lot of fun!

I will, as soon as she sobers up later this morning.

 

[zedd]

I'll tip up to 20% of the pre-tax amount when the service is excellent.

DW is and always has been a fast eater. So she'll finish the main course well before me. The wait staff must be trained to descend on our table with a dessert menu in hand the minute she puts her fork down. I find it really annoying to be pestered with a dessert offering when I'm still eating the main course.

Come to think of it, I (we) rarely have dessert when eating out.

 

[Sunset]

Is tipping not customarily 15% in Ontario? I think I googled it beforehand and Canadian tipping guidelines for restaurants were roughly what it is in the US Maybe it was 15-18% there, while I've seen 18-20% suggested here in the US (though the autocalculate receipts usually have a 15%, 18%, and 20% autocalculate on the receipt).

It is, but I was simply pointing out how the staff already make minimum wage, and tips are on top of that. So a full time waiter in Ontario has a base salary of $22,500 plus free medical.

So they are, of course, happy to accept tips as well.
This is a pretty good income, considering you don't need to finish high school for that job.

Compare that to US where base could be $2.95 and no medical. Here tips are needed due to low pay.

I think this is simply something picked up from the US, and Canadian's don't realize they overpay for it, just like they don't realize they over pay for Autos (even ones made in Canada are up to 10K cheaper in US). Clothes (GAP charges 15% extra after accounting for exchange and taxes in Canada than US).

 

[RobbieB]

Yeah, I'm with Marko's Ma, she knows how to live! I bet they all want to serve her well and make her happy.

 

[Bestwifeever]

My 87 year old mom eats out 5 nights a week.

To the dismay of her eventual heirs (my brother and me), she tips anywhere from 20%-50% depending on the personality of the server--how friendly they are.

I told her about this thread and she said: "Tell your friends that if they have to think about how much to tip, they should stay home!" (harumpf!!)

Just passing it on. Don't kill the messenger.

I love your mom. I bet she is a happy person.

 

[robertf57]

Although I am late to the party, I can't help but comment on some of the statements and sentiments in this thread. I personally much prefer the European approach, where a tip is an extra expression of gratitude for good service and not an expected fraction of normal compensation.

Several early posters mention Tipping-out and tip pools where cooks and others received a part of the servers' tips.... In order to be a legal tip pool, only people interacting directly with the customer and routinely tipped can participate. Managers, cooks, etc participating can invalidate the tip pool and lead to substantial liability to the restaurant (both to the government as well as backpay to the servers). This is because the restaurant takes a credit for the tips to true-up the wages they pay to the minimum wage amount.

Also, a mandatory charge is NOT a tip. Using such a charge as part of tip pool will also make it illegal and could lead to backpay and penalties. (1)

I say get rid of this weird process of separating payment for the service component of a product from its stated price. Charge me an appropriate price to begin with.. Just my $.02

(1) Ahmed, Rebecca, "Legal regulations of tip pooling and tip sharing in the United States hospitality industry" (2009). UNLV Theses/
Dissertations/Professional Papers/Capstones. Paper 593.

 

[FUEGO]

I say get rid of this weird process of separating payment for the service component of a product from its stated price. Charge me an appropriate price to begin with.. Just my $.02

That's why I spend virtually no time thinking about it and stick 15% on there when it's obvious you're supposed to tip.

I do spend more time thinking about tipping at the places where I'm not sure if you're supposed to tip or not. Most recently it was at a chili restaurant while on vacation(Gold Star Chili??) in Ohio near Cincinnati. You order at the table from a menu (but they have a counter where you can also order??). They bring the food to you. I can't recall them ever coming around to check on water or food. Then you pay the bill at the counter as you leave. We had to get up to ask for the cookies that were supposed to come with the kids' meals. The "waitress" also doubled as the cashier and might have helped with the food prep. Do you tip? I glanced around, didn't see any cash on the tables from other customers. I didn't tip.

In this situation, I'm bothered by the anxiety of either wasting money when no tip is expected, or not leaving a tip and being seen as "stiffing" the waitstaff. It's a crazy system we have going on, and we do the best we can I guess.