The Subdivision is looking shabby....Are we doomed?

I'll take a different approach, get involved with your HOA and get others with similar concerns involved as well. Too often HOAs go down hill because HOA Boards get stale and residents become apathetic. Most people just want to pay their dues and let others do the heavy lifting. I don't care how nice of a subdivision you move into if you don't take an active part in helping the HOA, it will go down hill.

Too often the same people that sit back and bitch about the HOA and the neighborhood are the same ones that don't want to pitch in and help. Yes, you can move but the situation will present itself again if you and the residents don't take an active part in the HOA.
+1

The neighborhood and the HOA are not the same thing. If you are not happy in the neighborhood, for whatever reason, then think about moving. OTOH, if you like where you live and feel that the HOA should be more active, you should consider getting involved. One characteristic of effective HOA's is dedicated leadership. It takes a lot of work, all unreimbursed and little appreciated, to make sure high standards are set and met.

One thing for sure you can determine by joining the HOA board is if the lack of enforcement and decline in standards is intentional or not. That insight would probably be very useful in choosing whether to continue there or not.
 
I'm finding this thread quite amazing in that most of the replies are negative.

We don't live in a covenant neighborhood but had been considering it. Now I'm beginning to rethink.

I wonder if it's the sort of thing where "Oh, it's old Mrs Jones who's son left his boat here...she's ok (or part of the in crowd), so we're not going to enforce the rule on her" and then things go down from there.

DW is against moving to such a neighborhood because she knows I'd be out there at 3AM every night with a camera and notebook writing down violations.

Oddly enough, I feel some of this is a regional/location issue. We live in MN and could find a neighborhood where we felt comfortable to live in with no HOA restrictions. However around 10 years ago when we started to look for a second home in the Southern Utah area, we quickly realized it was HOA or nothing. Even fairly upscale newish neighborhoods have homes ( and I mean more then one or two) that decorate their yards in what I dubbed "Utah Chic"..which might mean no lawn care, a couple motorcycles parked in the front yard, perhaps some blow-up Santas still standing on the 4th of July and bonus points for a broken washer or car on blocks in the back yard. This is not a snobby issue or even a socioeconomic issue it's a culture issue.

It's not really about being snobby or controlling. We ended up never buying a house because we live on a farm and aren't comfortable telling people they can't park in their driveways or leave the garage door open. Yet we don't enjoy looking at other people's junk and unkempt properties.

To the OP go to your HOA and see if there are renting restrictions in place and if they are being enforced. See how many homes are delinquent on their HOA fee. This might give you a better idea of what is going on.
 
I think the people who are recommending getting involved with the HOA are right on the nose. I can't think of any faster way to get you to decide to move. You'll go from being vaguely dissatisfied with your neighborhood to totally frustrated and angry, as well as widely disliked. It sounds like a perfect solution.

If values are holding, stay and let what others do roll off your back. If values are going down, run! That's what I would do, anyway. But no way would I get on the HOA.
 
Rex - I guess it comes down to weighing a few factors
- Do the HOA violations bother you enough to make living there unpleasant
- Or do you want to stay in your home.

Do you like your neighbors? Do you want to move to a smaller house now that you're empty nesters? Do you want to take on being on the HOA?

For me - I abhor the idea of moving. My neighborhood would have to become a full on slum to make me move. I don't have an HOA and live in a 50 year old subdivision... but there is pride in ownership here and property values are obscenely high. I'm not bothered by RV's in side yards... but since we have no HOA - that's allowed anyway.

Other people can't decide if the change in the neighborhood is enough for *you* to move... only you and your spouse can decide.
 
I have lived in two HOA communities and wouldn't have it any other way. Both have had good leadership and active members that realize the intent of the HOA is to maintain certain standards by enforcing restrictive covenants in order to protect and enhance property values.
 
If lots of people put up metal sheds and above ground pools, then by definition, metal sheds and above ground pools are "in". Maybe the people who dont like above ground pools and metal sheds are too uppity for that neighborhood.


That's not being uppity. That's just not having a special place in your heart for trailer trash or redneck lifestyle.


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That's not being uppity. That's just not having a special place in your heart for trailer trash or redneck lifestyle.


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"If you just helped your rich uncle take the wheels off of his new house, you might be a redneck"...
 
Slightly different story here. No HOA, but homes fairly nice and well-kept. But it seems more owners are moving out, or up, and then leasing. Still mostly owner occupied, but it could be a continuing trend. Values are still good, as people are moving here faster than builders can throw up more McMansions. Close in, near the rail line, and so on, so it could go either way in the future.

My PITI is only $700 and change, so it's cheap living, but I'm also thinking about offloading all the work/expense of lawn care and maintenance at some point. Decisions, decisions...
That sounds like my situation 30 years ago. I had a post written-up about my situation, but instead posted a generality (don't sell low if you've got location on your side). Since I had a very short, back roads commute to city center, and no place easy to build-out nearby, the neighborhood had a startling transition. I left while it was still kind of dumpy (no HOA) and prices not changed much, but rented the place instead of selling. Then prices more than doubled. That's when I got out. Put my kids through college on that bit of luck.
 
Slightly different story here. No HOA, but homes fairly nice and well-kept. But it seems more owners are moving out, or up, and then leasing. Still mostly owner occupied, but it could be a continuing trend. Values are still good, as people are moving here faster than builders can throw up more McMansions. Close in, near the rail line, and so on, so it could go either way in the future.

My PITI is only $700 and change, so it's cheap living, but I'm also thinking about offloading all the work/expense of lawn care and maintenance at some point. Decisions, decisions...

My unsolicited advice is to retire first (4-5 weeks?). Then take your time to adjust to retirement and decompress from work, shed stress, and so on. That could be anywhere from maybe a couple of months to a couple of years. THEN make the decision. You'll have plenty of time to do that - - "Oceans of time" as Goonie put it in a post long ago. Meanwhile, with such a low PITI you could easily afford to pay for a lawn service.

I think that by waiting, you will be more likely to make the right decision than if you rush to get it done immediately upon retirement. YMMV
 
I'm finding this thread quite amazing in that most of the replies are negative.

We don't live in a covenant neighborhood but had been considering it. Now I'm beginning to rethink.

I wonder if it's the sort of thing where "Oh, it's old Mrs Jones who's son left his boat here...she's ok (or part of the in crowd), so we're not going to enforce the rule on her" and then things go down from there.

DW is against moving to such a neighborhood because she knows I'd be out there at 3AM every night with a camera and notebook writing down violations.

+1

Glad I don't live in an HOA neighborhood. I would have been cited for many violations by now. :) I frequently allow the grass to grow in excess of 6", sometimes bordering 9" to 10" range, with weeds eclipsing a foot at times.

I've been procrastinating on the paint job for my shed (which would definitely violate HOA covenants itself by virtue of it's proximity to the house, the architectural detail and finish materials used, not to mention the plain white color scheme).

We park cars in the driveway because we don't own a garage. Sometimes we park on the street when we have guests. We plant different varieties of trees, flowers, and bushes when we want. We once left a 6' tall pile of mulch in our front driveway as we deployed it around the yard over the course of a month.

So glad not to have an HOA and instead have nice neighbors, some of which have cheap sheds, and there might be an above ground pool somewhere (though there aren't many pools at all). The houses are a mix of nice and well kept, moderately nice, and some run down. Mostly owner occupied but some renters too. This results in a nice blend of people of all ages, socioeconomic classes, nationality, occupations, and interests.

Across the street is a retired couple that love to shag dance and sunbathe in the driveway (their yard is immaculate though!).

Next door is a 70 year old hairdresser who built a behemoth carport and just had a satellite dish installed (but she's the nicest neighbor ever!).

The other way, I've got a college professor and cardiac nurse couple (he's from Africa and she's white - ooooh controversy if this were the 60's!!).

A couple doors down are the migrant family from Mexico (probably illegals, at least the parents, but that's okay, they work hard as hell; there's probably 11 of them in the house and they park a few old cars and work vans in the back yard; their back porch is enclosed with plastic wrap which is quite unsightly when viewed through binoculars; our kids love playing with their son who is in one of their classes, and we feed him dinner 1-2x per week; nice folks!).

Next door to them is the classic millionaire next door. He's an architect by trade and small time real estate mogul by acquisition. Rarely works, and stops me frequently when we pass by while out walking to talk business, stocks, investments, etc. Recently offered to lend me a book on tape (literally on tape).

Other neighbors include a real estate developer, construction sales guy who sucks at keeping vegetative life alive and a lady pushing 90 but still spry.

I can't imagine life in an HOA neighborhood being this interesting. Yeah, there's a few mismatched shingles on my roof and I STILL haven't finished painting my shed (nor my mailbox!), but life is pretty good.

To the OP, if the niggling changes in your neighborhood disturb you, then I'd say you are doomed! It probably won't get better because people just don't care that much because, hey, life. I'd say move to a new subdivision where the HOA is a lot stronger if perfection is what you seek.
 
That's not being uppity. That's just not having a special place in your heart for trailer trash or redneck lifestyle.


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To me, there is a big difference between a metal shed and cars up on blocks in the front yard. As long as he shed in painted nicely, not rusted out, and it size relative to the house seems normal, I would have no problem with it.......but then I was accused of being impossible to get along with because I didnt want to stay in a NY apt that I needed an armored vehicle to get to safely so what do i know.
 
I don't see the horror at someone having an above ground pool, as long as the users of the pool are not too noisy. Seems like the choice of above ground or in-the-ground depends more on soil conditions than anything. I wouldn't have either above ground or in-the-ground myself, because I am too lazy for pool upkeep. Does that mean I'm too lazy to be a trailer trash redneck? :ROFLMAO:

As for metal sheds, honestly I just don't have enough stuff to need the storage space. Which means, I haven't spent enough money on stuff to need a metal shed. :blush:

Does this mean I'm too lazy AND too poor to be a trailer trash redneck as well? I'm cracking up! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
My unsolicited advice is to retire first (4-5 weeks?). Then take your time to adjust to retirement and decompress from work, shed stress, and so on. That could be anywhere from maybe a couple of months to a couple of years. THEN make the decision. You'll have plenty of time to do that - - "Oceans of time" as Goonie put it in a post long ago. Meanwhile, with such a low PITI you could easily afford to pay for a lawn service.

I think that by waiting, you will be more likely to make the right decision than if you rush to get it done immediately upon retirement. YMMV

Oh, definitely no hurry. What appears to others to be a rash decision is something I've likely spent three years pondering!

I already have a lawn service. Mowing isn't too bad, except from July to September :facepalm:, but it takes as long, or longer, to trim around the house, the sidewalks, the driveway, and the fence. Definitely a back killer...
 
Cars in garage? No, motorcycles in the garage, cars in driveway and street.

Nicely kept lawn? No, let it turn brown in the summer for no maintenance.

Shed? Yes.

Trailer in front yard? Yes. Can't wait to use it for hauling dual sports to mountains.

Just planted some bamboo.

House values medium and steady. Can fly my American flag anytime I want.
 
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Oh, definitely no hurry. What appears to others to be a rash decision is something I've likely spent three years pondering!

I already have a lawn service. Mowing isn't too bad, except from July to September :facepalm:, but it takes as long, or longer, to trim around the house, the sidewalks, the driveway, and the fence. Definitely a back killer...

*MY* lawn guy does the edging and trimming, too, every time he mows. (Said with a snooty, definitely non-trailer-trash tone of voice).

I have a harder time getting him to trim the bushes around the foundation and weed under them but once or twice a year he'll accept $35 and do it.
 
Rex-
There's nothing wrong about wanting to have your development kept nice. I'm certainly similar in that regard. I worked hard for my possessions and respect my neighbors by keeping my place up. For some folks that is not a priority, that's fine. Perhaps they are rather well to do in that a drop in property value is not a concern or the conditions of there development is not a priority to them.
What I have experienced is that in highly populated city neighborhoods, when they get run down, depending on location, they can make incredible turn-a rounds. However suburban developments don't seem to have that resiliency. Once they begin to deteriorate, especially if the properties are large, they unfortunately spiral downward.
 
Oh yeah, my lawn guys mow and trim. I guess the point was that I'd do it myself if it was "just" mowing, and if the summer temps weren't 100+...

Actually, it's a pretty good deal. If I pay for the mowing season upfront, I get a 10% discount, which works out to around $18/wk. Plus, I use a CC, so get cash back or air miles. Well worth it!

I hardly set foot on the lawn. It's mostly an expensive, pita buffer between me and the neighbors.
 
Oh yeah, my lawn guys mow and trim. I guess the point was that I'd do it myself if it was "just" mowing, and if the summer temps weren't 100+...

Actually, it's a pretty good deal. If I pay for the mowing season upfront, I get a 10% discount, which works out to around $18/wk. Plus, I use a CC, so get cash back or air miles. Well worth it!

I hardly set foot on the lawn. It's mostly an expensive, pita buffer between me and the neighbors.

That's what mine is, too.

Oh good! I'm glad you get edging and I think it is WELL worth the price, especially in retirement (which should be for more enjoyable pastimes than mowing, IMO). Besides, my perception is that old people that keep mowing end up dying of heart attacks all the time while they are mowing. I'd rather not end up that way.

I pay $35/mow, which last year came to a little under $28/week. That is a lot but the guy has been mowing for Frank's family for half a century (he has helpers, now, and a rider mower). Anyway, I feel he is trustworthy and extremely reliable, and he knows when it is time to mow, so I prefer him to less costly services.
 
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Our prior house was in a neighborhood that started a rapid decline. There was no HOA. When we first moved there, it was very nice. Homes and yards were well maintained... mostly older original owners with teenage kids who soon became empty-nesters. As they moved out, more and more homes were being rented or sold to people who probably should not have qualified for a loan. We had done some fairly expensive improvements and hoped to stay forever. But once the direction was clear, we sold as fast as we could. Occasionally, we drive through there now and it's abundantly obvious that getting out early was a good choice.

The new place also has no HOA. It did originally back in the 60s, but was apparently dissolved in the early 80s, leaving no entity to enforce covenants. There are violations everywhere. But it's a heavily wooded area with 2 to 3 acre lots. We can barely see the neighbors. The houses are quite large and well maintained for the most part. There are a few people who went the "natural" route, i.e. literally live in a forest with no identifiable lawn areas, etc to maintain. Some people have a mix of conventional plus "natural," which I think works quite well. Recently, there have been a few tear-down's followed by a McMansion, which is fine too. We like the place for the privacy, natural beauty, and diversity. At this point, an HOA would just be an unnecessary intrusion. If things take a turn that we don't like for some reason, we'll just accelerate the downsize plan.
 
Oddly enough, I feel some of this is a regional/location issue. We live in MN and could find a neighborhood where we felt comfortable to live in with no HOA restrictions. However around 10 years ago when we started to look for a second home in the Southern Utah area, we quickly realized it was HOA or nothing. Even fairly upscale newish neighborhoods have homes ( and I mean more then one or two) that decorate their yards in what I dubbed "Utah Chic"..which might mean no lawn care, a couple motorcycles parked in the front yard, perhaps some blow-up Santas still standing on the 4th of July and bonus points for a broken washer or car on blocks in the back yard. This is not a snobby issue or even a socioeconomic issue it's a culture issue.



It's not really about being snobby or controlling. We ended up never buying a house because we live on a farm and aren't comfortable telling people they can't park in their driveways or leave the garage door open. Yet we don't enjoy looking at other people's junk and unkempt properties.



To the OP go to your HOA and see if there are renting restrictions in place and if they are being enforced. See how many homes are delinquent on their HOA fee. This might give you a better idea of what is going on.


Ivinsfan, you made me chuckle. No wonder I am not bothered by certain things that appear to bother people....I am the one bothering people! I practically leave my garage door open all day long (and sometimes to forget to close it at night). It never occurred to me that was an eyesore. Probably an HOA violation somewhere. :)


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Ivinsfan, you made me chuckle. No wonder I am not bothered by certain things that appear to bother people....I am the one bothering people! I practically leave my garage door open all day long (and sometimes to forget to close it at night). It never occurred to me that was an eyesore. Probably an HOA violation somewhere. :)

Maybe the inside your garage isn't an eyesore. Mine is, and always assume that people who leave their garage doors up showing their nice, neatly organized garage that you can fit a car into are snobs and show-offs. And even in my highly regulated HOA in MD it's not against the rules to leave the garage door open.

I had always said I would never live in a house in an HOA. I've broken the rule, and I regret it. I don't like telling others what they can and can't do, and I certainly don't like them telling me. I got in trouble for planting trees without permission. Trees! Aargh. Never again, I swear (the HOA, not the trees).
 
....I am the one bothering people! I practically leave my garage door open all day long (and sometimes to forget to close it at night). It never occurred to me that was an eyesore. Probably an HOA violation somewhere. :)


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I became the designated neighborhood spokesman who finally had to speak to a woman down the street who was creating an eyesore with about 150-200 soda cans strewn around her front yard (among other things). Her son would just toss them as he'd walk into the house.

I was a bit amazed that she didn't understand how anyone could see this as a problem. It wasn't a case of "none of your business", it was a case of "you mean people actually worry about things like that??".
 
Maybe the inside your garage isn't an eyesore. Mine is, and always assume that people who leave their garage doors up showing their nice, neatly organized garage that you can fit a car into are snobs and show-offs. And even in my highly regulated HOA in MD it's not against the rules to leave the garage door open.

I had always said I would never live in a house in an HOA. I've broken the rule, and I regret it. I don't like telling others what they can and can't do, and I certainly don't like them telling me. I got in trouble for planting trees without permission. Trees! Aargh. Never again, I swear (the HOA, not the trees).


Mine is fairly clean but nothing inside to brag about including the vehicle unfortunately. My garage is a heat trap in the summer so I keep it open. Plus it is my preferred way to enter and leave the house. I feel like you do about it. Maybe when I am old cranky and I would not mind an HOA since I wouldn't be doing anything to my property anyways.


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About 10 years ago I built a really nice shed in my back yard. It wasnt metal. It was just like the ones you see at Home Depot, but I built it from scratch so it was nicer than those and I custom painted it to match the colors of my house. I still had a neighbor tell me that it would bring the property values down. But then this was the same guy who successfully lobbied the City to put speed bumps on HIS street and his street only to slow cars down because he had a small child. This was a street that probably had 10 cars per day drive down it. He was a serious busy body that thought he was too good for the rest of the neighborhood. Amazingly enough, he didnt work. His wife is a doctor.
 
I got in trouble for planting trees without permission. Trees! Aargh. Never again, I swear (the HOA, not the trees).

You're upset that your HOA enforced the rules? From this thread it sounds like the bigger issue is lack of enforcement.
 
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