Too poor to retire; too young to die

[LOL!]

An LA Times article about retiring, travelling, nomading, and what not

http://graphics.latimes.com/retirement-nomads/

(Apologies if already posted.)

 

[timo2]

I read it this morning, but it made me too sad to post. These type of stories are going to keep coming at us for the rest of our lives. We all are of the sums of how we lived our lives. Beyond my charitable donations, there is not much a person like myself can do for them (including family members that will be in this boat one day). Maybe vote to improve the safety net for seniors. I recall before medicare all the stories about destitute old people eating cat food (before McDonald's was cheaper than cat food). I don't want that stuff to start up again.

 

[Walt34]

These type of stories are going to keep coming at us for the rest of our lives.

I have several relatives I can see this happening to. One is now vacationing in Costa Rica.

 

[rodi]

That was depressing. Unfortunately, I know some folks like that - no planning, no financial sense, and when they get old, they don't do so well. It's one thing to *choose* to hit the road in an RV on vacation, then return home. It's another to live full time in an RV that is breaking down, with no home to go to, and need to take itinerant menial work to make ends meet.

 

[splitwdw]

That was sad.

 

[W2R]

Not that I'd claim that this article was purposely written to be a seriously maudlin and emotional tear-jerker, but

The Great Recession would hit older Americans hard. [...]The financial fallout had rendered her modest stock portfolio worthless, and she’d never put away much in savings.

Worthless? Really? *AND* she lost her house the same year? I don't want to be unsympathetic, but I do wonder if the author might be stretching the truth just a wee little bit, for effect.

 

[NW-Bound]

An LA Times article about retiring, travelling, nomading, and what not

http://graphics.latimes.com/retirement-nomads/

(Apologies if already posted.)

I skimmed through the article. As an RV'er myself (for travel, not for full-time living), I have read blogs of several full-time RV'ers. Quite a few show very poor financial planning, and often spend their precious little cash on what I consider frivolous things for someone in their shoes. For example, when you are on SNAP you should not shop at Whole Foods! I often have to keep coming back to their blogs, because it is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. It's fascinating!

I seriously doubt if anything can be done for them. They need to learn to help themselves first.

 

[Senator]

Her monthly income consists of $1,200 in Social Security and a $190 pension, plus pay from her seasonal jobs. She owes $50,000 on her credit cards. There’s also a $268 monthly loan payment for her aging rig.

It's hard for me to feel sympathy for anyone like this. There are shelters and lots of public assistance available. There is also plenty of public housing.

Homeless vets have it worse.

 

[Walt34]

It's hard for me to feel sympathy for anyone like this. There are shelters and lots of public assistance available. There is also plenty of public housing.

Well, agreed that she's doing it the hard way. But the "safety net" can get pretty thin in some places, like here in WV. Go across the border to MD and things suddenly get a lot better. I have a distant relative in MD living quite well on her $800/month SS income plus lots of public assistance. She has a nice apartment that has reliable heat and A/C, safe location. Not much in the way of luxuries but she's a long way from cat food.

In WV, she'd be hurting so a lot depends on the "where".

 

[daylatedollarshort]

It's hard for me to feel sympathy for anyone like this. There are shelters and lots of public assistance available. There is also plenty of public housing.

Homeless vets have it worse.

I wonder if some of the issue is a problem of not knowing what kinds of assistance are available? It seems like she also needs some basic budgeting help. Prime rib at a restaurant? $21.36 could buy quite a bit of food at the 99 Cents Only Store - maybe a weeks worth of vegetarian or vegan food.

I do have sympathy for her. She is working working really, really hard but needs direction on budgeting and social programs.

 

[NW-Bound]

One thing about RV'ing: You'd better know how to do small repairs yourself.

Big Foot was another problem. The roof still leaked, and the plumbing was acting up...

The mechanics confirmed the busted water pump. Without it, she couldn’t save money by parking at truck stops and would have to pay to stay at campgrounds with water hookups.

But the mechanics wanted thousands for the repair. So Westfall did without it, scouting half-price campgrounds while hopscotching south to the Carolinas, where she found a mechanic to fix the pump for $200.

One can order an RV water pump for around $50, and replacement requires only common hand tools. It should take about 1/2 hour.

 

[Ronnieboy]

This was a sad read, but it is geared, as W2R said, "written to be a seriously maudlin and emotional tear-jerker"

The first person is making $16.6k a year in ss and pension, I would find it too difficult to live on that but add in working income and I wouldn't be as picky about not eating food from the shelters if it was available.

The second couple has military pension and disability supplying them with $32.4k a year. I have seen budgets on this board that are less than that and MMM supposedly supports his family of 4 on $25k a year

The third couple, the wife was a nurse for 25 years?!? No retirement planning what-so-ever? Weird.


At least one thing I can say, it is admirable that they are still working and willing to work any job they can to keep money coming in.

 

[aaronc879]

Despite what the article says, she is living in an RV by Choice not necessity. She has a higher income than I do even without her odd jobs. She could easily get an apartment and get by just fine. Maybe not in California or coastal Florida but she could do it. I have a 85 year old neighbor in my condo building who still has a mortgage and lives on just SS of about $1000/mo, nothing else. She has no savings, pension, or family help. She does get some heating assistance and food stamps but that still doesn't add up to this women's $1390/mo income. She's just a spendthrift. Many people get by on less. I'm one of them.

 

[hurricane harry]

I'm sorry but this woman is living the life she wants. She is having a blast moving from town to town, job to job. You get bored, tired of the scenery, move again. I actually envey her life style.

 

[Bamaman]

I too am an RV'er. But a part time RV'er keeping my new fifth wheel in a mountain campground in storage.

I'm not brave enough to liquidate all "my stuff" and hit the road as a full timer. And after watching 3-4 RV forums daily, I seldom see any full timer's not liking their lifestyle.

 

[jfn111]

My sister lives in a converted garage up on the reservation in Northern Mn. She survives on SS of around $800 bucks per month and a couple hundred she makes cleaning two small churches.
Her son and I have tried to get her to move to the Twin Cities where we could help out more but she loves it up there.
She spent her life making no plans for the future and has no plans to change.

 

[HadEnuff]

"Should she go to the dentist, or take a guided tour of buildings designed by her favorite architect, Frank Lloyd Wright? Each cost $100.

She picked Frank Lloyd Wright. Her teeth could wait.

“I believe doing something fun, no matter how frivolous it might seem, is food for the soul,” she said. “You need to feed yourself some pleasure once in a while to keep feeling alive. Otherwise, it’s just drudgery.”

I can have some sympathy for this woman's plight, but I feel no responsibility towards her. A lifetime of living that philosophy has its consequences, and they are hers, not mine. I've had family members try to lay a guilt trip on me because I have some money squirreled away. I've told them, "hey, I didn't get up at 5AM to work instead of ski because I preferred to work. I would have preferred to go skiing. I did it because I didn't want to be poor.. And no, I won't lend you $5,000"...

 

[cyber888]

This was a tear-jerker article, but one-sided. We need to realize that these guys move around a lot to see the country and spend on gas, expensive food on the road (ribs for $21 ?).

Regarding the single woman, she clearly wants to travel around and the article says "She could hit the road, but she will have to keep working". Her income of $1390/month is enough for her not to work if she stays put in one place and rents a room or small studio apartment for $390 or $490/month. She'll still have $900-$1000 for very cheap home cooked meal and other expenses. RVing is expensive with gas, renting on RV lots, expensive fast food, and maintenance for the RV. Traveling expenses pile up.

The couple with the guy having a $2,700 pensions from the military + disability .. could also stay put and rent a cheap apartment and survive. He lost the house because his mortgage was $2,150/month. But $2,700 military pension is plenty to survive on and rent a cheap apartment. Again, they just want to travel, so travel expenses cost money and they have to work as janitors.

The last couple didn't have stats on their income, but it says 'he works at RV campsites ..and dabbles in photography, fly fishing, and gold panning' and she says 'we have a warm bed, food, etc." So, the guy has work income but no savings. It does not say if they have SS or pensions. I think the third couple is the most hard up.

Lastly, this is an LA Times article .. so these guys are mostly in California. CA is an expensive state compared to many southern states. But I have a retired friend who survives on $900/month SS in CA for rent and food. For travel/entertainment, she has to do some work.

 

[audreyh1]

It's not the new James Bond film?

 

[landover]

"prime rib special and an iced tea — expensive at $21.36,"

I guess most people think this is normal and eveyy one is entitled to this.

 

[pb4uski]

My grandmother lived on less, and my great aunt not much more. She should be eligible for subsidized senior housing in many parts of the country.

IIRC my grandmother paid ~$400/month because her income was so low. Gram had no car (the senior housing provided a bus weekly to the grocery store) and lived reasonably well on $1,200/month SS.

While I'm still sad for the protagonist, I was floored by the $50k of credit card debt. She should consider bankruptcy.

She could have had a nice senior dinner at a Bob Evans for about $15 including tip.

 

[Al in Ohio]

It's hard for me to feel sympathy for anyone like this. There are shelters and lots of public assistance available. There is also plenty of public housing.

Homeless vets have it worse.

It can take many years on a wait list for public housing and homeless shelters can be very rough places. The options in the story weren't pretty, but probably better than shelters or waiting for a pipe dream. None of those in the story had kids. That puts you on the loooong wait list for public housing.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[hnzw_rui]

The second couple has military pension and disability supplying them with $32.4k a year. I have seen budgets on this board that are less than that

+1. He's likely got Tricare, too. I can understand how getting by on $1390/mo might be difficult but it wasn't so long ago that we were making ends meet on $27K a year (family of 4) living in SoCal. And around half of that amount was rent. No money for frivolities but at least we weren't eating cat food either.

It can take many years on a wait list for public housing and homeless shelters can be very rough places. The options in the story weren't pretty, but probably better than shelters or waiting for a pipe dream. None of those in the story had kids. That puts you on the loooong wait list for public housing.

This is true. When we immigrated, our income was too low so we qualified for Section 8 housing but the waitlist was years. Thankfully, we eventually got better paying jobs.

 

[athena53]

"Should she go to the dentist, or take a guided tour of buildings designed by her favorite architect, Frank Lloyd Wright? Each cost $100.

She picked Frank Lloyd Wright. Her teeth could wait.

And later in the article they mention her getting hit with $8K in bills for emergency dental work and repairs to her RV. I can understand that life should include little splurges no matter how poor you are, but $100 for a guided tour of a Frank Lloyd Wright house when it means you can't afford dental care is not "little".

It's definitely sad to read about how these people live but they've chosen a life of jobs that pay minimally and travel/living in a vehicle that's extremely expensive to move and maintain. The numbers don't work and, as the first lady is learning, your body eventually becomes too creaky for most of those jobs. They've also walked away from underwater houses/trailers, leaving the bank with the loss.

As others have mentioned, we have safety nets in place for the elderly poor, such as Section 8 housing, but they need to stay in one place to get it.

 

[AllDone]

As others have mentioned, we have safety nets in place for the elderly poor, such as Section 8 housing, but they need to stay in one place to get it.

They've opted for a lifestyle of travel that they can't afford, so they're working odd jobs to pay for it. It's not a lifestyle that appeals to me, but I'm not sure that I would like mouldering away in low income senior housing, looking at the same four walls every day, either.