Why Lie About Early Retirement?

[Unpaintedhuffhines]

Almost every person I mention this to says "you are way too young to retire," as if it is a complete statement of fact, not opinion. So, I have started telling people "I'm taking a sabbatical...maybe a year, maybe longer." That comforts most, but I do think that my FIL still thinks I am insane. He is 82, still works full time making about $250K/year, has about $15M in the bank (and lives on probably $70K/year).

Two weeks in, I am enjoying my retirement. Oh, wait, I mean sabbatical. I am so incredibly fortunate, and was recently reminded of that when I talked to a good friend of mine. He is 55, and he worked for me for about 7 years. During that time, he made an incredible amount of money: one year, $950K, next $750K, but he never made less than $400K. Gotta love high tech software sales. He is in the midst of a divorce, which I know can be financially devastating, but he made a comment to me that I found unbelievable. He found an apartment that will cost about $2,800/month. He was hesitant to sign the paperwork because he wasn't sure a certain deal was going to come in and pay him a commission. During our discussion, I slowly began to realize that he simply didn't have the money for the first month's rent. He was paid millions during his tenure on my team, and apart from what I hope is at least a small 401k, he has nothing. I would be terrified to be in his shoes.

 

[urn2bfree]

Whenever I get that comment "you are too young to retire!" I answer as sincerely as I can fake it, "wait, did they change the law about that? I know you can't vote until you're 18 and you can't drink until you're 21, what is the age you are allowed to retire again?" Fortunately, (or maybe not so fortunately) I think I will be hearing that "too young" comment less and less...

 

[AnIntentionalRoad]

Almost every person I mention this to says "you are way too young to retire," as if it is a complete statement of fact, not opinion. So, I have started telling people "I'm taking a sabbatical...maybe a year, maybe longer." That comforts most, but I do think that my FIL still thinks I am insane. He is 82, still works full time making about $250K/year, has about $15M in the bank (and lives on probably $70K/year).

Two weeks in, I am enjoying my retirement. Oh, wait, I mean sabbatical. I am so incredibly fortunate, and was recently reminded of that when I talked to a good friend of mine. He is 55, and he worked for me for about 7 years. During that time, he made an incredible amount of money: one year, $950K, next $750K, but he never made less than $400K. Gotta love high tech software sales. He is in the midst of a divorce, which I know can be financially devastating, but he made a comment to me that I found unbelievable. He found an apartment that will cost about $2,800/month. He was hesitant to sign the paperwork because he wasn't sure a certain deal was going to come in and pay him a commission. During our discussion, I slowly began to realize that he simply didn't have the money for the first month's rent. He was paid millions during his tenure on my team, and apart from what I hope is at least a small 401k, he has nothing. I would be terrified to be in his shoes.

I can relate. I was in hi-tech also and know several people who made a lot of money and either continue to work for whatever reason or have to continue to work because they spend money with the assumption that the good times will last forever. Maybe the will--but industries a cyclical and the good times are not guaranteed to continue forever. Ask folks in bio-tech, manufacturing, etc.

 

[Calico]

Bingo. I completely agree. You folks that have FIRE'd should wear the badge proudly. Most of you set a goal, made a plan, achieved the stated objectives and walked away from the treadmill forever. You should be proud that you have accomplished what most Americans only dream of and you did it on you terms. You didn't steal it from anyone, you didn't lie or cheat your way to FIRE, you do not have one damn thing to feel guilty about. Most of those that are jealous are in their situations due to their poor choices (although some have been dealt a poor hand, but certainly not the majority). I agree you shouldn't rub their noses in it but you certainly shouldn't try to hide the fact that you successfully achieved what you set out to do.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[redduck]

... Most of you set a goal, made a plan, achieved the stated objectives and walked away from the treadmill forever. You should be proud that you have accomplished what most Americans only dream of and you did it on you terms. You didn't steal it from anyone, you didn't lie or cheat your way to FIRE, you do not have one damn thing to feel guilty about....

Ah, you may be taking too much for granted here.

 

[Dog]

I will retire this year at 56 - wahoo!!! DH will retire in 2016 (58). I'm comfortable since many of my friends and prior co-workers are already retired and are very anxious for me to pull the plug. My family is a different case - my Mom doesn't understand why I want to retire (even though I'm the only daughter of four that continues to work) and I've already heard the "must be nice" from my younger sister multiple times. She was fortunate to quit work about 15 years ago to stay home and raise her children. Her husband made very good money and they lived very nicely (jewelry, top-shelf alcohol, boats, cruises, trips to Europe, lots of camps/classes for kids, upgrade of home, etc.). That has started to change the past few years - her husband's income has been cut significantly and they are gradually adjusting their lifestyle. She has returned to work three different times only to quit within a year. Typically it is because she doesn't like the commute, office politics and/or having to work more than 8 hrs/day. She currently isn't working but told me they will have to work until 70 before they can retire. I do feel bad - during flush times her husband use to talk about retiring by 50.

 

[gauss]

I ER'd at 48 after a year long leave of absence. DW is still working to get her 30 years years in and the associated large increase in Pension at that point (my megacorp stopped the pension accruals back in 2010).

With DW still working, the ER for me included additional social pressure for us. I decided that I must own my decision and be upfront with people out of respect for DW. She also felt awkward when people would turn to her and say "Well, what do you think about that?!", with the subtle implication that she is being taken advantage of. We finally came up with the honest response that it was "under evaluation". After six months to a year the answer morphed into "It's working for us".

-gauss

 

[Henry Lili]

I’m challenged by this all the time. It all depends on who is asking. I'm about 7 months in and at 47 don’t have a one-size fits all answer. My extended family and SO’s family got the “consulting” answer. Very close friends, though they assumed consulting was my likely path, now know by default I’m “managing my portfolio” (including looking for new investment opportunities) given they see I have so much free timeJ.

The trickiest group has been former co-workers (those I like and still socialize with). I left Mega-Corp sticking to the story that I simply needed a change and wanted to take the time to think clearly and not to just jump into something (they assumed a new Mega-Corp role I guess). My answer when I see them now is that while I haven’t closed any doors I find spending a good deal of time managing my portfolio to be quite enjoyable though I also continue to look for other streams of income such as foreclosures (been to a couple of sales); small business investments/purchases (not looking to buy a job/I don’t want to actually “make the sandwiches”) as well as volunteer opportunities and since I’m not closing any doors if they hear of a consulting project to let me know. This seems to make sense to them although I have limitted if any plans to actually do more than manage my portfolio and pursue the other items more like a hobby.

 

[RetireAge50]

Just gonna be one word. Retired. With a big smile of course.

 

[Henry Lili]

The reason I don't like describing myself as retired is that I don't feel "retired" in the traditional sense of not working. I still work, just not for direct pay, and mostly for myself.

Among friends, I don't get the non-understanding of how I can do it financially because my situation is not that uncommon and plenty of them could be FI. Some have asked, "What do you do all day?" I get the sense that if they could figure that part out, they would RE.

When I'm out doing stuff during "working hours," I sometimes get the "Day off today?" question or something similar from people like the haircutter. My answer: "I'm working from home today."

We must have the same haircutter . Last week I just said half day today

 

[MBAustin]

Ever hear a husband refer to his wife as "a good providor"?

Not for me. I think that people often think of a non-working woman as being someone who was a stay at home wife. And, I don't really want to be seen that way.

For me, I've just never understand families where the wife never worked (I understand stay at home parents especially for younger children, just not women who never worked during their entire marriage). I realize every situation is different so it may well have a great choice for the particular family. But - for me - I don't want someone to think I'm or was a stay at home wife.

I think because stay at home wives are very common where I am, I don't often get asked anything that would even cause me to have to talk about my occupation or retirement status. And, that bugs me a little. Again, that assuming thing.

This. I've outearned my husband our entire marriage. He's taken "breaks" along the way to deal with life changes (move across country for my job, dealing with elderly parents, etc.) It's worked for us - since he also picked up household responsibilities and childcare responsiblities during his breaks and when he was part-time. He's now retired... and regularly refers to me as the breadwinner. Not sure how he'll adjust when I retire sometime within the next few years. (I'm out in 2.5 years as a drop dead date - but hopefully sooner.)

My wife has been a great provider! When we got married fifteen years ago she made a little more than me, but her career took off and her base salary grew to three times my pay, plus stock options that put the icing on the cake. I have no problem telling her (or others) how proud I am of her accomplishment. I retired last year and am now just waiting for her to join me...the sooner the better.

Interesting that several of us here are part of marriages where the wife is/was the "breadwinner". Like Dash man's wife, I earned slightly more than DH when we married, but ended up making about 2x in base pay, plus significant bonuses and eventually stock options as well. He was never anything but proud of me.

Perhaps this is one reason why the assumption by folks that I was and am a SAHM rubs me so much the wrong way.

 

[EastWest Gal]

A relative retired early and let everyone know what a success he was to do so. There was lots of jealous grumbling. A few years later when his investments went bad, he barely stayed retired but got no sympathy and the jealous grumbling continued. He's not the only early retiree and not the only successful person in the family, but his high profile ER sure made him the target for ill feelings. I'm no where near as successful and not even ER yet, but I'll sure be taking a low profile when I do ER. No reason to risk that kind of jealous negative reaction.

I have an uncle who retired at 49 and moved to a couple of very nice houses over the years, including his current one worth at least $800K not far from Pebble Beach. The problem is he is always money grubbing when it comes to family property, wanting to income sell property co-owned amongst myself and one other family member who really needs the income. The property is farm/orchard property and has been in the family for about 150 years I think. He and my aunt got $150K from the sale of another parcel 8 years ago.

The problem isn't ER. The problem is not quite being FI and not making good use of one's time, as well as the behavior of the person.

Good thing the ER folks aren't low profile here. You all give great advice!

 

[ajs56]

I am 57 y/o and planning to retire as soon as I can get a successor/replacement readied, hopefully within 2014, and I have given this subject some thought.

Among our family and friends are many folks who are or will not be able to FIRE. When the subject of finances or retirement comes up, we often hear comments like "since the recession I'll have to work til I drop", "so-and-so lucked out/got all the breaks/was so cheap"/(insert any one of a dozen other reasons/excuses of choice) no wonder he/she/they can retire, etc. I usually avoid such discussions with people as much as possible as I don't want to have rifts between family/friends, etc.

In earlier years, such as our 30's-40's, it seemed we and all our age peers would discuss careers, family, plans, etc., Without trying to be preachy I used to suggest balancing family and work/FIRE was possible by education, working hard to earn a reasonable living, LBYM, and considering books like "The Millionaire Next Door" or "Your Money or Your Life". Of course until the decades unfold, you never know what good or bad fortune may occur, and whether your plans will work out or not.

Now that the results of decades of life choices, and in some cases circumstances beyond control, have brought us (age peer group) all to the final period of the game with whatever "score" we have, and the fact that for some a victory is not likely, and for others it is, is staring us all in the face. I feel a little sad that some of our good friends and family are now on the outside looking in as we prepare to FIRE, but I also know we worked hard and honestly, planned and made choices to live a good life while keeping one eye on the goal.

So, I doubt that I will be ashamed or intimidated about being FIRE'd, certainly when asked, but as others have said, while I am proud of the FIRE accomplishment I will be (and always have been) aware of not gloating or thumping my chest, especially with those who are on the outside looking in. That is another reason I enjoy it here at ERF. Kindred souls are not all that easy to find out there.

 

[iam21177]

Being in your 40's and telling your friends you are retired is like being at a banquet and showing your steak to the starving beggars at the window.

I learned that first-hand.

Yes, this is what I've experienced (in mentioning our saving habits or ER plans). It just doesn't do any good.

 

[NW-Bound]

We never have to lie about our ER. We are old enough now (though we do not look like it) that when we say that we retire early people automatically assume that we are able to do it because we have juicy pensions plus free or cheap healthcare benefits. We have none, but it is better to let people think differently.

I found out recently that even my brother-in-law and his wife thought we had retiree's healthcare, and I told them that no, we bought our own health insurance that had nothing to do with our former megacorp, just like they shopped for their car insurance.

Yes, it takes a lot of money to retire independently from megacorps, and we do not want to "advertise" that we do not have to rely on megacorps.

 

[redduck]

... when we say that we retire early people automatically assume that we are able to do it because we have juicy pensions plus free or cheap healthcare benefits.

Actually, they probably assume that you go to bed early.

 

[mpeirce]

I found out recently that even my brother-in-law and his wife thought we had retiree's healthcare, and I told them that no, we bought our own health insurance that had nothing to do with our former megacorp, just like they shopped for their car insurance.

I get the the healthcare questions at times , what do you do about insurance? "We bought insurance ourselves". That's what FI means - you can pay for the things you need. Some people just don't get it.

 

[NW-Bound]

Actually, they probably assume that you go to bed early.

Perhaps there's that too.

When people do not have money to do anything else, I guess they go to bed early. I have read that poor people often have more offsprings because of that too.

PS. What I read was "The rich get richer, and the poor get more children." Now, where did I read that?

 

[Walt34]

Interesting that several of us here are part of marriages where the wife is/was the "breadwinner". Like Dash man's wife, I earned slightly more than DH when we married, but ended up making about 2x in base pay, plus significant bonuses and eventually stock options as well. He was never anything but proud of me.

After I retired and DW went back to school to finish her degree I told her that if/when she got a job, when she got home I'd be more than happy to have the house cleaned, dinner on the table and I'd greet her at the door with smile, a glass of wine and a "How was your day dear".

Sadly, she didn't take the hint.

 

[gardenfun]

Catching up on this thread just after reading the Retired Doctor 1 year anniversary one. Some gut-wrenching tales of burnout and young doctor suicides on that one.

The similar themes in the two threads struck me: why do we as a society seem to only value "w*rk" so much, and devalue the other aspects of life? and w*rking like a dog, sacrificing personal pursuits, time with family, etc. etc. Seems to me it's a theme that links the two threads: people can't understand why (or how) some of us want to retire early (stop w*rking), and people expect doctors (and other professions) to work till they drop, and love every minute.

Maybe the millennial generation will change some of that thinking. I fear they won't have "enough" to retire by our standards, but maybe they will at least think more clearly about the value of w*rk relative to other things in life.

 

[truenorth418]

I get the the healthcare questions at times , what do you do about insurance? "We bought insurance ourselves". That's what FI means - you can pay for the things you need. Some people just don't get it.

Five years after it's passage and all of the news coverage and controversy, especially over the past 6 months, have people still not heard of ObamaCare? That's kind of frightening.

 

[NW-Bound]

Heck, I have not even tried to get an account at ACA.gov or whatever it is called after reading all the posts here about it. I just couldn't risk not having insurance if it did not work out, nor risk raising my blood pressure. I may try next year.

 

[Ronstar]

Back in my early semi retirement days, I was always asked why/how, etc. I never lied about my part time gig, but I felt a little uncomfortable explaining it to everyone that asked. But now that I'm 58 and retired, I rarely get any comments. I think its because I'm now at an age that most people consider an acceptable age for retirement.

 

[John Galt III]

I think a lot of the resentment is from people thinking that we are not following the rules, as they are. That we are being crafty, clever, beating the system somehow. Otherwise we would be toiling away with the other galley slaves until the taskmaster let us go at the appropriate age of 65, like a normal good person.

 

[brewer12345]

That we are being crafty, clever, beating the system somehow.

I take pride in the fact that this is the case for me.