astromeria
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Yeah, I'm sure everyone thought I wafted ashore on a scallop shell with my retirement accounts in place, too 
Anybody else here go through some rough patches early in life?
- Thread starter wildcat
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donheff
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Wildcat:
A lot of it is how you look at it. I always thought I had things easy but things were still a mess in my twenties. Out of school I substitute taught for a semester, bummed around the country, got married, had a kid, started looking for a "straight" job. Ended up subbing again and working as a janitor until I got a Federal job. Got divorced, child care payments, plane fare to fly my son out for summers and several times a year left me essentially broke. When I moved to DC at 32 I had a Chevette with a tray instead of a glove box and bought a sofa bed for my apartment with a Household Finance loan Not exactly a fast track to success. But after a few years I shot up through the ranks to SES and fifteen years after that I happily ERd.
Oh, I forgot - there were some serious bumps midway through that last fifteen years that led me to completely change my career path. But almost everyone has a few of those.
A lot of it is how you look at it. I always thought I had things easy but things were still a mess in my twenties. Out of school I substitute taught for a semester, bummed around the country, got married, had a kid, started looking for a "straight" job. Ended up subbing again and working as a janitor until I got a Federal job. Got divorced, child care payments, plane fare to fly my son out for summers and several times a year left me essentially broke. When I moved to DC at 32 I had a Chevette with a tray instead of a glove box and bought a sofa bed for my apartment with a Household Finance loan
Not exactly a fast track to success. But after a few years I shot up through the ranks to SES and fifteen years after that I happily ERd.Oh, I forgot - there were some serious bumps midway through that last fifteen years that led me to completely change my career path. But almost everyone has a few of those.
I don't think my life has ever been too harsh, at least by my standards. But I keep thinking that I am very much behind on my life, if that makes sense.
I know that I have wasted awhole lotta time, doing G-d knows what, in the last 10 yrs and it's a very unsettling feeling.
I keep reading this board in sheer amazement - seem like people really have their sh$t together.
So, to answer OP - yes, I know exactly what you are talking about.
Lena
I know that I have wasted awhole lotta time, doing G-d knows what, in the last 10 yrs and it's a very unsettling feeling.
I keep reading this board in sheer amazement - seem like people really have their sh$t together.
So, to answer OP - yes, I know exactly what you are talking about.
Lena
flipstress
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Nice mental image triggered of Boticelli's Venus, naked but with a big portfolio of ledgers and account statements.astromeria said:Yeah, I'm sure everyone thought I wafted ashore on a scallop shell with my retirement accounts in place, too
Let's see--rough patches early in life:
My dad suffered a heart attack when I was 8 but he recovered although he made very little change in his lifestyle afterwards. When I was 14, he suffered a stroke (and more later on) and he was housebound afterwards until his death 13 years later. So the focus of the family was on taking care of him, and my mom also had to make a go of the small business they had.
Before this, they always wanted me to be a doctor. (It is almost every Filipino parent's dream to have their child become a doctor. ) By the time I was headed to college at 16, med school was out of the question--too long, not enough money. I had no clue or idea what I wanted to do so was not truly disappointed and declared a Business major because it was practical per my mom and my uncle.
I enjoyed the first two years of general education classes but found business classes uninteresting. I nearly flunked one Finance class. I was miserable the last two years but stuck it out.
Coming to America was a mix of pleasure and pain--lots of new things (snow, fall leaves, cold milk on cereal, different colors of hair/eyes/complexion, just like being in American movies we used to watch back home) along with the alienation and feeling of being different. Sounds corny but first heartache (BF broke up with me AND then I got fired from my job because of performance problems--I was unconsolable beyond belief) broke that and I learned to reach out; I realized that I did have things in common with other people here, even if I weren't American.
My ordeal with immigration is not typical for the "average" American so I won't bore you with it. Suffice it to say that a few doors were closed to me because I did not have my green card.
Jobwise, I used to switch around a lot because work paled in comparison to the fun of school. It was challenging and exciting to get the correct answers in school, work on papers and projects that were interesting, but my first job in finance was boring to me. I am glad to have made the switch to computer programming, but even then, the couple of jobs with bigger companies were too limiting.
I find that it helps to have a job that allows for some creativity and self-direction. It also helps to have a boss who's kind of enlightened--listens, helps, and actually understands the work, too--and to have coworkers that I get along with. Of course, being highly paid would be great, but most times, such jobs include more stresses that I don't want to deal with. After all, I have to save energy for life outside of work.
When I was younger, I used to look at org charts and naively think that a few years or so at each level and I would be ready to reach the top. But life is full of surprises, twists and turns--external and internal (like you realize you didn't care for the nature of the job or what you would have to do to get to where you think you want to go.) I think there are very few people who are able to follow the strict level progressions that are laid out in org charts--maybe folks in the military or some other hierarchical organizations. Our path through jobs is not like a train or bus schedule, so don't expect to be at a certain level by a certain time or compare yourself to peers because we're all on different journeys.
I read this saying once that was reputedly Eastern: "Make a living with your left foot." Uneloquently, I interpret that to mean that there is life outside of making a living with the rest of your body, i.e., lighten up and don't take work too seriously. I know it sounds flip and easy for me to say because I am beyond starting out like you, and it IS easy to say
Hang in there, keep trying, don't lose hope, and try to enjoy other areas other than working or looking for work. Like other posters have said, a few years from now, you will be beyond your current problems, and facing another set of problems (but hopefully not too hairy ones.) Congrats on finishing grad school!
scubamonkey
Recycles dryer sheets
Wildcat,
When you are in your mid 20's the world does not move fast enough - but hang in there I promise it will speed up every year. The main thing is to keep your physical health and feed your brain with as much knowledge and positive attitude you can. Exclude as much negativity as possible.
When I was twenty I was married with a baby living on the family farm. At 23 the farm went under (due to mismanagement) and divorce the same year. I had no home, no car, and no job -with responsiblities. This was my low point - I swore never to be in this position again.
My uncle let me live with him for six months. He bought a $2000 car and let me make $50 a month payments. I worked selling real estate, spraying bugs for a pest control business, delivering newspapers, and gettin FHA foreclosed houses ready for resale. The small town I was in was a SAC base (B-52s) and the base closed ie the real estate market died!
Now, at this point I could pay my bills at an apartment with the newspaper, bug spraying, and foreclosure stuff. I decided to get my degree at night and let the bug spraying go. Did it, but I swore never to have a job again that was 365 days a year.
These times were tough for me but taught me how to save and not give up my life energy working all the time. When you look back at these times and realize what you can do when you have to, it kinda takes the edge off any future worries - a sense of peace maybe?
Good luck!
When you are in your mid 20's the world does not move fast enough - but hang in there I promise it will speed up every year. The main thing is to keep your physical health and feed your brain with as much knowledge and positive attitude you can. Exclude as much negativity as possible.
When I was twenty I was married with a baby living on the family farm. At 23 the farm went under (due to mismanagement) and divorce the same year. I had no home, no car, and no job -with responsiblities. This was my low point - I swore never to be in this position again.
My uncle let me live with him for six months. He bought a $2000 car and let me make $50 a month payments. I worked selling real estate, spraying bugs for a pest control business, delivering newspapers, and gettin FHA foreclosed houses ready for resale. The small town I was in was a SAC base (B-52s) and the base closed ie the real estate market died!
Now, at this point I could pay my bills at an apartment with the newspaper, bug spraying, and foreclosure stuff. I decided to get my degree at night and let the bug spraying go. Did it, but I swore never to have a job again that was 365 days a year.
These times were tough for me but taught me how to save and not give up my life energy working all the time. When you look back at these times and realize what you can do when you have to, it kinda takes the edge off any future worries - a sense of peace maybe?
Good luck!
maddythebeagle
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I think I see a pattern here about your 20s: learning to do for yourself, learning on the fly, and building success from it....turning into a good thread...
PsyopRanger
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I'm saving all the juicy details for my book someday...but at 23 I was seperated from my wife and 2 kids, was totally selfish and thought I was so smart and knew it all. Had little or no values or ethics. At one point, I was 2 months behind on rent, car engine blew, quit my job with no savings, $15K in debt. My wife moved three states away and took all the furniture and household goods. I sat in an empty apartment and wondered how I got to this point?
I worked on re-aliging my priorities, focusing on values and asking for advice and help from those with wisdom. Worked 16 hour days with no days off for 4 months in a commissioned sales job to get back on my feet. Then, a year later, I quit my $75K/yr job to move across country and reunite with my wife and kids. We lived on welfare for 8 months while she finished college and I looked for a job in the area.
We now laugh about it and I look at it as a growing point in my life. Most successful people I know have had many failures, they just got up and kept fighting and learned from their mistakes. I learned what really mattered to me in life and that even if I was broke, I had my family. I can always make money back but getting a family back is another thing.
Lance
I worked on re-aliging my priorities, focusing on values and asking for advice and help from those with wisdom. Worked 16 hour days with no days off for 4 months in a commissioned sales job to get back on my feet. Then, a year later, I quit my $75K/yr job to move across country and reunite with my wife and kids. We lived on welfare for 8 months while she finished college and I looked for a job in the area.
We now laugh about it and I look at it as a growing point in my life. Most successful people I know have had many failures, they just got up and kept fighting and learned from their mistakes. I learned what really mattered to me in life and that even if I was broke, I had my family. I can always make money back but getting a family back is another thing.
Lance
jclarksnakes
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There are some excellent lessons to be learned from the many posts on this thread.
jc
jc
JPatrick
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Good to hear from you Wildcat---
Rough patches eh? Well we children of the late 60's had the draft to work into our plans. I had/have a fair amount of respect for the draft so I'll consider it a detour as opposed to a rough patch.
Since the 8th grade I had wanted to be a commercial pilot.
I had gotten my private pilot's license and was attending college when out of the blue came a program from American Airlines for entry into their training program. All that was required was a private license and 2 years college. As I recall, I would have needed to lie about my age, but you do what you have to do
So I quickly called to offer my services---First question--are you draft eligible?
That was that--opportunity gone.. Shortly after that I had another dumb luck opportunity to purchase 49% of a beautiful nightclub biz for simply the cost of inventory and some fixtures. Rent free lease as the owner was to claim 100% of all coin operated revenue. We opened as a alcohol free club/disco aimed at teens. It was a huge success for the first three months, but we found we had to invest a pretty good chunk of $$ to get to the next level. (in business you either grow or die) Once again the draft---I couldn't bring myself to commit to the loan so I backed out and sold out for very little.
Well if it is to be you find a way. I got into the cockpit, but as those things sometimes go, I burned out after 12 years. Hello career change.
Someone else mentioned networking and that is a good strategy.
My best contacts were former bosses and the rest were kind of chance meetings. One example--About 8 years ago I was reading a mini bio of a small, but wildly successful hedge fund manager. From that bio it was obvious we had something in common that was fairly rare. ( can't say what cause it will likely blow my cover)
So I emailed the guy thinking nothing would come of it. Well I got an immediate email and phonecall. Had I been looking for a financial j*b this would have been the ticket, but I was and still am happy to settle for the investment advice and friendship.
You just never know what shell the opportunity is under.
I know you are going to be alright Wildcat
Rough patches eh? Well we children of the late 60's had the draft to work into our plans. I had/have a fair amount of respect for the draft so I'll consider it a detour as opposed to a rough patch.
Since the 8th grade I had wanted to be a commercial pilot.
I had gotten my private pilot's license and was attending college when out of the blue came a program from American Airlines for entry into their training program. All that was required was a private license and 2 years college. As I recall, I would have needed to lie about my age, but you do what you have to do
So I quickly called to offer my services---First question--are you draft eligible?That was that--opportunity gone.. Shortly after that I had another dumb luck opportunity to purchase 49% of a beautiful nightclub biz for simply the cost of inventory and some fixtures. Rent free lease as the owner was to claim 100% of all coin operated revenue. We opened as a alcohol free club/disco aimed at teens. It was a huge success for the first three months, but we found we had to invest a pretty good chunk of $$ to get to the next level. (in business you either grow or die) Once again the draft---I couldn't bring myself to commit to the loan so I backed out and sold out for very little.
Well if it is to be you find a way. I got into the cockpit, but as those things sometimes go, I burned out after 12 years. Hello career change.
Someone else mentioned networking and that is a good strategy.
My best contacts were former bosses and the rest were kind of chance meetings. One example--About 8 years ago I was reading a mini bio of a small, but wildly successful hedge fund manager. From that bio it was obvious we had something in common that was fairly rare. ( can't say what cause it will likely blow my cover)
So I emailed the guy thinking nothing would come of it. Well I got an immediate email and phonecall. Had I been looking for a financial j*b this would have been the ticket, but I was and still am happy to settle for the investment advice and friendship.
You just never know what shell the opportunity is under.
I know you are going to be alright Wildcat
REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
JPatrick said:
We've already figured out you're Elvis, so you can give up the cover story and come out of the toilet.
JPatrick
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Nope, a few of us still are enjoying our coverREWahoo! said:We've already figured out you're Elvis, so you can give up the cover story and come out of the toilet.
And a few have been outed
tikitoast
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Arc said: A positive attitude will be your greatest asset. Read "The Power of Positive Thinking" by Norman Vincent Peale. It will make a huge difference in your life - if you let it.
So true.
I read Peale's book a couple of years ago out of curiosity when I was in between jobs and desperate. I had no degree, not much experience, and no skills other than typing. I read the book the night before an interview with a temp agency. I did one of Peale's exercises that night and the morning before I went in. I scored something like 105 wpm on the typing test, with 2 errors. Never did that before!
Of course, I hate to type, and you couldn't pay me to take a job like that again...But that sh*t works!
And, as everyone else has said, it DOES get better...and worse...and better...
So true.
I read Peale's book a couple of years ago out of curiosity when I was in between jobs and desperate. I had no degree, not much experience, and no skills other than typing. I read the book the night before an interview with a temp agency. I did one of Peale's exercises that night and the morning before I went in. I scored something like 105 wpm on the typing test, with 2 errors. Never did that before!
Of course, I hate to type, and you couldn't pay me to take a job like that again...But that sh*t works!
And, as everyone else has said, it DOES get better...and worse...and better...
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Hats off to you guys. Many of you looked at the beast and stared him down.
No wonder you are succeeding!
Ha
No wonder you are succeeding!
Ha
tryan
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20s ... we all had an excuse (young n' stupid). How about 35 and 250K in the hole. Now that's TROUBLE. (Add to that married with a kid on the way).
That's what a relentless recession and a POP to the housing bubble did to me in the early-mid ninties. Just crawled out - teeth n'nail - and made damn sure to NEVER forget how I got there. Learned my real estate lessons - pretty well - and FIRED 8 years later (after buying a whole bunch at the bottom).
Live n'learn!
C
Cut-Throat
Guest
Yup, I was drafted also! - Biggest callup of the Nam War -- So I did not do any life planning till my 4 years of Service was up! (Joined the Navy, instead of running around in Rice patties)
We should bring the draft back! It would put a quicker end to the nonsense wars we are currently involved in. Americans not only do not show up to the polls to vote like they should, but they could care a less when the poor and minorities are getting killed every day in Iraq. The most they do is stick a 'support the troops' bumper sticker on their car.
- What the hell does that mean?
REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
Cut-Throat said:
Cut-Throat said:
Cocktail hour C-T?
C
Cut-Throat
Guest
REWahoo! said:Cocktail hour C-T?
Not yet, We're going out tonight!
And Not only should we bring the draft back, but have No deferrments. That is just a way for rich kids to avoid service.
Was just going to post something quick and saw this thread:
Hang in there, WC! I have a bar in mind you ever want to drop by and get a beer! FWIW, I still don't think I've found the ideal job, and I'm 32! But my first decent job was landed just before my 29th birthday. Before that I was "the second best candidate" for 3 promotions in a row
Hang in there, WC! I have a bar in mind you ever want to drop by and get a beer! FWIW, I still don't think I've found the ideal job, and I'm 32! But my first decent job was landed just before my 29th birthday. Before that I was "the second best candidate" for 3 promotions in a row
JPatrick
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Cut-Throat said:Not yet, We're going out tonight!
And Not only should we bring the draft back, but have No deferrments. That is just a way for rich kids to avoid service.
Wow we!!
I'm liking the way Cut-Throat is thinking
So REW and you other boys still in Texas, you think you might be able to get CT on the Prez's Christmas card list?
REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
JPatrick said:
I'm betting the Prez already has CT on a list... 8)
C
Cut-Throat
Guest
JPatrick said:Wow we!!
I'm liking the way Cut-Throat is thinking
So REW and you other boys still in Texas, you think you might be able to get CT on the Prez's Christmas card list?
The reason we don't have any College Protests against the Iraq war, and other rich and powerful folks in the U.S. speaking out against the Iraq war is because we don't have a draft! - Start a draft and watch the sh*t fly - just like in the Vietnam era!
- Today all the college boys are probably joining the 'young republicans fraternity! They are perfectly willing to let the blacks, and poor white trash die, to carry out Karl Rove's policy.
Think about it
youbet
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
You're absolutely correct C-T!
Take Israel for example: (from Wikipedia)
Most Israelis (males and females) are drafted into the military at age 18. Exceptions are Israeli Arabs, those who cannot serve because of injury or disability, women who declare themselves married, or those who are religiously observant. Compulsory service is three years for men, and two years for women. Circassians and Bedouin also actively enlist in the IDF. Since 1956, Druze men have been conscripted in the same way as Jewish men, at the request of the Druze community. Men studying full-time in religious institutions can get a deferment from conscription. Most Haredi Jews extend these deferments until they are too old to be conscripted, a practice that has fueled much controversy in Israel.
Following compulsory service, Israeli men become part of the IDF reserve forces, and are usually required to serve several weeks every year as reservists until their 40s.
We need to follow suite. A military draft for women and men. Deferments eliminated or extremely limited to be fewer than the Israel system or our own past draft system. Eligible age raised so that those that missed serving previously can at least be conscripted to desk jobs now.
If we just want to recreate the Viet Nam era, everything we need to refresh our memories is here: http://www.landscaper.net/draft.htm#How's your "Luck of the Draw"?
Take Israel for example: (from Wikipedia)
Most Israelis (males and females) are drafted into the military at age 18. Exceptions are Israeli Arabs, those who cannot serve because of injury or disability, women who declare themselves married, or those who are religiously observant. Compulsory service is three years for men, and two years for women. Circassians and Bedouin also actively enlist in the IDF. Since 1956, Druze men have been conscripted in the same way as Jewish men, at the request of the Druze community. Men studying full-time in religious institutions can get a deferment from conscription. Most Haredi Jews extend these deferments until they are too old to be conscripted, a practice that has fueled much controversy in Israel.
Following compulsory service, Israeli men become part of the IDF reserve forces, and are usually required to serve several weeks every year as reservists until their 40s.
We need to follow suite. A military draft for women and men. Deferments eliminated or extremely limited to be fewer than the Israel system or our own past draft system. Eligible age raised so that those that missed serving previously can at least be conscripted to desk jobs now.
If we just want to recreate the Viet Nam era, everything we need to refresh our memories is here: http://www.landscaper.net/draft.htm#How's your "Luck of the Draw"?
You old war horses veterans may see the draft as the cure to what ails American politics, but you're not doing the military any favors.
The military's a lot smaller than it used to be, and much of the conscript labor has been contracted out. Do you know how many people will be put out of work just to give draftees something to do? No way will all these eligible draftees be motivated to learn a trade, put up with authority, or feel motivated enough to do more than preserve their existence. The latter is probably a Catch-22 good thing but there's a reason that not even the Army likes two-year enlistments, let alone a draft. Are you guys willing to throw away all the progress that the military has made since the draft ended just to facilitate your political prejudices?
Go do your great social experiments with some other social institution...
The military's a lot smaller than it used to be, and much of the conscript labor has been contracted out. Do you know how many people will be put out of work just to give draftees something to do? No way will all these eligible draftees be motivated to learn a trade, put up with authority, or feel motivated enough to do more than preserve their existence. The latter is probably a Catch-22 good thing but there's a reason that not even the Army likes two-year enlistments, let alone a draft. Are you guys willing to throw away all the progress that the military has made since the draft ended just to facilitate your political prejudices?
Go do your great social experiments with some other social institution...
C
Cut-Throat
Guest
Nords said:
We already have a draft Nords. It's just based on one economic strata, instead of the whole country. And I don't think there has been the progress that you speak of.
