False promises at work - not being promoted

[younginvestor2013]

I'm not sure it makes sense to try and find a new job...say, I land a 25% pay increase, but in 2018, I could attain that pay increase with more growth to spare for future years at my current firm, whereas at another firm, I may hit a wall sooner.

In the whole scheme of my net worth and (mostly) job satisfaction at my current job, I need to decide if it make sense to swallow my pride and stubbornness and just deal with it for another year and see how things go, or not b*tch about it and actually do something about it (job search).

 

[Meadbh]

Lastly, and maybe I should have mentioned these two things earlier, but across the board they announced that there will not be any pay raises at all this year, although there were a few prootions.

Yeah, you should have mentioned that! If you still see yourself as entitled to a raise, you have an ego problem. My advice would be to keep your thoughts to yourself and work really diligently to help your company get back on track. By all means investigate other opportunities. Proceed with humility.

 

[pb4uski]

.... or not b*tch about it and actually do something about it (job search and CRUSH my 2017 goals).

FIFY

I recall having a discussion with a boss early in my career and saying that I wasn't sure if where I was was where I would be for the rest of my career... the boss (the senior managing partner in the firm) said something along the lines of that's ok but you would still be best served to do the best job that you can while you are here... I took those words to heart...was promoted about 6 months later and about 6 months after than resigned and move onward. It was good advice.

 

[exnavynuke]

I'm going to +1 what Meadbh said and add in my own perceptions of what I see here so far.

First, it seems you feel like you were promised a promotion, but you also seem to say you weren't actually promised a promotion. Taking the position of someone who was promoted quickly does not imply or promise any such similar path for you. It seems like you went into the job feeling entitled to what happened for the last guy who had it, which you are not entitled to unless specifically told that is what will happen. As it doesn't seem anyone told you that you'll be promoted to position XYZ after ABC number of months, the entitlement seems to be in your head.

Second, if your pay is not equitable to the industry norm for someone in your position with your background, then you have a case for believing you are underpaid. The pay of someone in a position over you has no real relevance to whether or not you are being adequately compensated. If, based on research of pay for similar experience in your position across your industry and location (www.BLS.gov is a good start for that data), you believe you are being underpaid then you can either accept that for the "hope" that things will change where you currently are, or you can look to get adequately compensated for your work elsewhere.

Third, if no one in the company is being given a raise, then the interpretation of the company's financial situation and priorities you presented earlier is mistaken. They either cannot afford to pay their people better due to reasons you do not currently know/understand, or they do not want to pay their employees better. Either situation is a red flag in my book.

Lastly, until you have another offer in hand, I would recommend you do your job to the best of your ability and avoid any conversation (with anyone at any level) regarding compensation at work unless the subject is brought up by your boss (in which case I'd be humble and express that you understand no one is getting any raises this year etc etc). The sole exception would be any routine discussion that would happen during an employee review with your boss, and then you only discuss desired increase in compensation in relation to your performance and responsibilities.

 

[RobbieB]

Don't forget to groom a guy (or gal) for your job during the year.

One way to not get promoted is to not have a replacement trained beforehand.

 

[Texas Proud]

A lot of merit here, but I have a different take on the final recommendation regarding heart to heart talk. I've seen too many of these work situations, both me personally and friends/coworkers over the years, where it's just impossible to change upper management's impressions. In my case, it took my resignation to get an overdue offer of a promotion (which I turned down). I think OP needs to put his/her best foot forward publicly, but actively look for other employment.

I do not think OP is in the position yet of not being promoted.... but I have seen that also...

Way back when, there was a guy who did a good job at his position... but any kind of finance job that opened up he applied.... well, he got his reputation and nobody would hire him... heck, HR would say 'at least talk to him'.... he needed to move on in order to move up...

I also had an assistant who was really great at her job... but she wanted to move up the the next level... she had been at her level for 15 years... after working for me about a year or two she asked about being promoted... I had zero ability to do anything, but I knew the upper mgmt that did... I told her there was no chance of her getting a promotion at the current mega... so, she started to look outside and got a promotion...

 

[Starsky]

Lastly, and maybe I should have mentioned these two things earlier, but across the board they announced that there will not be any pay raises at all this year, although there were a few prootions.

Yeah, that's kind of a big exception and places the onus on you for this situation. Now it sounds like you were acting like an impatient ass. I've had many young employees who thought they were ready for the next level before they actually were, and that may be the case here. Your expectations were way out of line with management's, and management made their intentions abundantly clear. I don't know what you do, but if you knew about the wage freeze before having your initial conversation, then you are probably perceived as too immature to be promoted to higher levels of management.

In our employee career development discussions, we would tell each employee whether they were developing 3-5 years, developing 1-2 years or ready now for promotion. I always thought that was a very fair way to assess employees and help them understand how they were being perceived by others. You may want to ask your manager where you would fall on that scale.

I've seen employees leave a company and make huge progress in their careers, and I've seen people stay with companies for long periods of time and be very successful. The opposite is also true and I've seen careers tank spectacularly. There are no guarantees. Only you can know when the timing and opportunity is right to move on. Just make sure your emotions are in check, your skills are competitive, and you understand what you're getting into before deciding to move on. The ability to honestly evaluate yourself - and let others do it too - without your ego getting in the way is so important (and difficult).

 

[younginvestor2013]

Thanks for the feedback. I should have *also* mentioned that the pay freeze was announced well after discussions that I had with my managers......if it was announced before those discussions I probably would not have initiated the discussions to begin with.

 

[Big_Hitter]

if your business is doing so great why freeze pay?

 

[CRLLS]

.....

Lastly, until you have another offer in hand, I would recommend you do your job to the best of your ability and avoid any conversation (with anyone at any level) regarding compensation at work unless the subject is brought up by your boss (in which case I'd be humble and express that you understand no one is getting any raises this year etc etc). The sole exception would be any routine discussion that would happen during an employee review with your boss, and then you only discuss desired increase in compensation in relation to your performance and responsibilities.

Well spoken. You never know who talks to, or is personal friends with, who. And who will eventually become higher on the ladder than you and control your future directly. It is your responsibility to yourself to manage your own career, not the company's. Take control of your future by acting accordingly.

 

[Aerides]

OP I don't know how old or close to ER you are, or your personal goals. If younger, less established without roots like family, hopping makes more sense now than later. If you're under 30, start looking now, I don't think you'll be happy there for the long run, just a hunch given this and the last thread.

If you are going to stay and wait out the year to see what happens, then do so only if you can go all in. That means no bitching, but more - no showing frustration, no hallway comments, no looks. No more talking about other people's salaries, no more comparing yourself out loud to others. You are Mr. Team.

The LAST thing your boss wants to hear is that you know what so-and-so makes and that's not fair. It makes you sound like someone who is spending their time bitterly gossiping and griping (not saying you are, just that's what your boss thinks when you mention someone else's pay grade).

And that aside, the title of this thread and use of the word... Promise. That word has no place in corporate america and hasn't for a long time. Even if someone did say they promise you, it has no meaning. Best intentions get over-ridden every day. A smart manager will caveat everything that of course they can't promise... For all you know, your boss had every plan to promote and reward you, but was slapped down for other reasons. Maybe she also got some bad news, probably she was embarrassed to have to tell you know given her reaction.

 

[socca]

Viewing yourself as an independent contractor running a small service business, are you acquiring skills & experience that will allow you to become an even more effective service provider in the future? If so, great! This is where your attention should be focused. Money & titles will follow, if not at your current employer then at some other. Good luck!

 

[injera]

Sigh - welcome to corporate America.

I wish we lived in a world where promotions came easily and everyone was promoted and paid what they thought was appropriate. Sadly thats not the case.

In my 14 years in the workforce (with 3 companies) i've been promised promotions that never came, promised promotions that came 2 years later, gotten promotions with no/minimal additional pay and had to obtain competing offers in order to get where I am.

Now that i'm in a leadership (but not management position) younger employees come to me all the time with concerns of 'i'm not being promoted/paid' or 'i'm ready for more responsibility' or 'i'm going to leave because XYZ wants to pay me another $10k.' I wish i could give them the answer theyre looking for, but i cant.

The reality is, unfortunately: things move slowly, companies dont like to pay unless they have to and managers dont like to be bothered with payroll/hr issues. Quitting is always an option but i always recommend looking long term. Will a new company solve all your problems? Will they have issues that you wont like? Will you be missing out on future development by staying put for another year or two? I totally get wanting to be paid, but unless you're going from minimum wage to $50k a year, its not always the best long term solution to rush to the highest bidder.

Good luck.

 

[Bestwifeever]

In terms of looking for your next job, better to have the promotion and higher level of duties even without increased compensation--you will be more qualified for better jobs. OP is lucky to get advice here from seasoned former managers.

 

[respond2u]

Any time you feel your boss gives you a "snarly reply", it's time to find a new boss!

 

[rodi]

I think for now, my plan is to sit tight and see how my 2017 goals discussion goes with my manager. Given that the firm thinks I am being too aggressive, do you think it makes sense to not bring up at all my disappointment with no pay / title change?

Here's what I would do (and have done in the past.)

At the goal setting session make it clear you want to expand your skill set and responsibility. *IF* your boss asks why, then explain you understand you need to perform at the next level if you are to be considered for a promotion. If you boss doesn't ask - don't bring up the promotion.

As others have mentioned - gaining the skills and responsibility will make you more marketable if a promotion does not come through.

I totally get your frustration. I went through 3 yearly review cycles - each time asking what I could do to expand my skills/responsibilities. And had managers tell me it was needed for promotion. Took on the additional work, did very well with it, only to be passed over. Part of it was economic cycles reducing the number of pay raises and promotions. Fortunately, when I transferred within the company to another campus (and another state) I was given the promotion within a year. My new boss pointed out I'd been doing the work of the higher level for a while and should have been promoted... so having the skills and responsibilities *did* get me the promotion... eventually... but it took a new management chain.

 

[tulak]

I've found that when I don't try to get promoted, I get promoted. What I do is focus on doing my job well and most importantly, making sure the work I do has visibility. You want people outside of your manager knowing what you work on and you want your manager to get feedback from others within the company about you (and not because that are asked).

This can be hard, depending on the position, which is why I try to find positions where I can easily work with others outside of my immediate team.

 

[younginvestor2013]

So just wanted to provide the crowd an update.

I had a convo with my boss today about what my bonus $ would be for 2016. It was lower than last year's, and my boss said, "I know you're probably disappointed so let me explain..." He said his was lower than both last year's and the year before and that in general everyone's was either flat or lower than other prior years, even though we hit our revenue figure this year, in order to pad for next year since we are expecting a lower year.

He also went on to say that him and my other boss submitted a higher bonus $ figure for me than I got. The "higher ups" decided to give me less than what my two bosses submitted for me and the "higher ups" only wanted to give me what they ultimately ended up giving me. He said that some higher ups have a tarnished perspective of me (our company is a very dispersed group - not all in the same office dispersed throughout the US so keep in mind I only see some higher ups quarterly, if that...) because they think I've been too aggressive in pushing for promotions and taking on more work. While they all think I've done a good job, they don't think I've hit it out of the park which is why they said I haven't been promoted, in addition to being too aggressive and not trusting them.

My boss then began to say things like "when you become promoted, we will let you know and be fully supportive of it" but he iterated that I keep my head down, focus on my work and constantly hitting home runs.

My boss said he was on my side through all this and while he agrees I have been a little aggressive he supports me and thinks I am a great worker. I told him at the end of the convo I appreciated all the detail and candid talk but that now I am more concerned about my viability in the company and if it is really a good fit for me as i initially intended on growing there for a while but I was concerned about this now given my "perception". He then said that he thinks it is "repairable" and that I can change my image around and i shouldn't be concerned about that as long as I keep my head down and trust that they have my best interests at hand.

Just thought I'd update the group based on the latest. I'm still processing it all, and would appreciate any comments you might have! Thanks in advance!


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[target2019]

If you want to move up, move out. That is my opinion only, so do what your heart tells you. The people I worked with who were ambitious, and confident about their position in the company, always moved up by going elsewhere for a better opportunity.

Other option is stay and make the best of what you have. It is always better to look around and try to gauge your human capital, so you can set an accurate salary for yourself.

 

[Texas Proud]

So just wanted to provide the crowd an update.

I had a convo with my boss today about what my bonus $ would be for 2016. It was lower than last year's, and my boss said, "I know you're probably disappointed so let me explain..." He said his was lower than both last year's and the year before and that in general everyone's was either flat or lower than other prior years, even though we hit our revenue figure this year, in order to pad for next year since we are expecting a lower year.

He also went on to say that him and my other boss submitted a higher bonus $ figure for me than I got. The "higher ups" decided to give me less than what my two bosses submitted for me and the "higher ups" only wanted to give me what they ultimately ended up giving me. He said that some higher ups have a tarnished perspective of me (our company is a very dispersed group - not all in the same office dispersed throughout the US so keep in mind I only see some higher ups quarterly, if that...) because they think I've been too aggressive in pushing for promotions and taking on more work. While they all think I've done a good job, they don't think I've hit it out of the park which is why they said I haven't been promoted, in addition to being too aggressive and not trusting them.

My boss then began to say things like "when you become promoted, we will let you know and be fully supportive of it" but he iterated that I keep my head down, focus on my work and constantly hitting home runs.

My boss said he was on my side through all this and while he agrees I have been a little aggressive he supports me and thinks I am a great worker. I told him at the end of the convo I appreciated all the detail and candid talk but that now I am more concerned about my viability in the company and if it is really a good fit for me as i initially intended on growing there for a while but I was concerned about this now given my "perception". He then said that he thinks it is "repairable" and that I can change my image around and i shouldn't be concerned about that as long as I keep my head down and trust that they have my best interests at hand.

Just thought I'd update the group based on the latest. I'm still processing it all, and would appreciate any comments you might have! Thanks in advance!


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

Just throwing this out as a thought....

Maybe you are not as good as you think....


When I first got out of college I worked in one of the big accounting firms... I remember one lady who pushed hard to advance... but there was a schedule that was mostly followed.... she pushed and pushed and turned off some of the upper people because she was not ready and THEY knew it... but the lady did not... she thought she was 'better' than people that were over her.... guess what She flamed out... got shot down because she would not do what she needed to do for the time it was needed...


Sounds to me like you are doing something similar... how long have you been doing this work? How long have you been in your current position? How long does it take for the normal person in your position to get a promotion?


It was not a smart idea to tell your boss you do not think you are a good fit for the company.... if that gets to higher ups one of them just might agree....

 

[Sunset]

......
Lastly, and maybe I should have mentioned these two things earlier, but across the board they announced that there will not be any pay raises at all this year, although there were a few prootions.

No pay raises?
That is a red flag about the health of the business.
I'd start looking for a new job, one that pays higher to make it worth the change. Working somewhere else will make you a better worker with more experience.
If nobody on the outside wants to hire you, then take it as a sign you are not quite so good, and concentrate on doing a great job where you are for another year.

Titles mean nothing, in a few places I worked, we gave ourselves titles. Once I was Global Web Development Specialist

Until I changed it again

 

[mystang52]

From my perspective: whether it's company finances, your actual job performance being less than you believe it is, or management's perception of you, or some combination it doesn't matter. If you want a big raise/promotion, I don't see it happening at your current employer.

 

[jollystomper]

To the OP - I rarely trusted work promises. I found they were too easily subject to the whims of management, and easy for management to weasel out of. I would continue to work as best as I could, but also - without telling anyone - look around for other opportunities outside of this employer. Essentially, you only have leverage based on the supply and demand for your skills.

It is also important that you do not burn bridges. You never know one, 5 10, or more years down the road when you might encounter your management chain or co-workers in another setting - even another company in the same industry - and they will remember your past.

 

[Mdlerth]

I had a convo with my boss today...

...He said that some higher ups have a tarnished perspective of me (our company is a very dispersed group - not all in the same office dispersed throughout the US so keep in mind I only see some higher ups quarterly, if that...) because they think I've been too aggressive in pushing for promotions and taking on more work. While they all think I've done a good job, they don't think I've hit it out of the park which is why they said I haven't been promoted, in addition to being too aggressive and not trusting them.

My boss then began to say things like "when you become promoted, we will let you know and be fully supportive of it" but he iterated that I keep my head down, focus on my work and constantly hitting home runs.

My boss said he was on my side through all this and while he agrees I have been a little aggressive he supports me and thinks I am a great worker. I told him at the end of the convo I appreciated all the detail and candid talk but that now I am more concerned about my viability in the company and if it is really a good fit for me as i initially intended on growing there for a while but I was concerned about this now given my "perception". He then said that he thinks it is "repairable" and that I can change my image around and i shouldn't be concerned about that as long as I keep my head down and trust that they have my best interests at hand.

Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

I translate this as "you aren't going to be promoted for several years." If you are okay with this timeline, then stick around. Otherwise, get your j*b search in gear now.

BTW, when you do leave, do it with dignity. No name calling or attitude. Stick to something like, "Thank you, but I am pursuing a better match for my interests and skill set." In the long run, you will be glad you took the high road.

 

[kaudrey]

That sounds like it was a good talk. I would do as your boss says - perceptions CAN change, and the best way to do that is to let your work speak for you. Stop talking about promotions and pay, do AMAZING work, and then your boss will have more ammunition to state your case for a promotion in a year. You sound fairly young; have some patience. And if you don't feel that you can/should, then search for another job. But it doesn't sound to me like you don't need to cross that junction quite yet. Best of luck.