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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-05-2007, 11:42 AM   #21
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Re: How many here have a boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
I feel the same way about big boats as I do about dogs. Love 'em, but can't justify the hassle of owning one.

I just pet other people's dogs and boats.
Since I apparently "found" a second dog last week, I just put my boat up for sale.


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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-05-2007, 12:46 PM   #22
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Re: How many here have a boat?

My wife and I are boaters. We have a 28' foot Grady White Sailfish. We have had several boats before this one. We love to fish, dive, and just boat ride. We also spend the weekends on it when the weather is right. It is always a sad time of the day when we have to return to our slip. My wife would gladly sell the house and move on to a large boat to live.

We live in Pensacola and are just a few minutes from the marina - which makes it convenient.

Yes it is expensive and yes it requires maintenance. I think it is critical that you and your spouse should really want a quality boat to justify the expense and maintenance requirements. Most of the time we will choose to go out on the boat for a few days instead of traveling on land (or in the air).

All the kids are grown, educated, and married. We both work with decent jobs and are still planning to ER. If owning a boat would eliminate our ability to ER then I might reconsider and stick with a smaller boat.

If I did not have a boat, then I would be looking for one.

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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-05-2007, 01:23 PM   #23
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Re: How many here have a boat?

Let me start by saying I know almost nothing about sailboats.

Boat people - here's some boat questions for you. I know there will be many answers and it will be hard give me a realistic answer, but I'm just asking for a ball-park guesstimate.

Let's say I get a sailboat - maybe a ~35' or so. Let's say it is 5-6 years old, and costs around $100,000. The only brand of boat I've ever really researched is Dufour - and from a quick internet search, it looks like I could find something I just described. (I don't really care if Dufours are any good, since I'm years away from buying anything - so no "OMG Dufour is for dufuses" comments ).

What will my estimated costs be? I'll pay cash for the boat. Slip fees, insurance, average annual maintenance for this type/age boat, operating expenses (gas is the biggie), etc.

Would it be realistic to live on this type of boat for a few months or a year with me and my wife (I know it is cramped, but could you, as a boatlover, live on this type boat)? How about with my two kids?

Is this type craft oceanworthy - ie - could I go along the eastern seaboard and to the Bahamas? Circumnavigate the globe?

My idea is that I may get a sailboat after FIRE and live on it. I'm planning on setting aside $12000/yr for "travel/vacations". If I don't get a boat, this will be money spent on vacations. If I do get a boat, will my $12000/yr budget cover the boat expenses and operating costs? I'm interested if my plan is feasible, or whether the numbers are way off what is reality.

Told you I didn't know nothing about boats...
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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-05-2007, 02:37 PM   #24
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Re: How many here have a boat?

Hey Justin--when we get the trawler, y'all come down and cruise with us in Charleston and see how you like the lifestyle!

The answer is, it depends. We lived aboard the 28' (it was snug) for 3 months. It cost only $13,500. When we get ready for the trawler (slow powerboat) we hope to keep the cost in the $40k range (Marine Trader). I have no experience with the boat initial cost and age you are talking about--I am strictly a 1970's era boat owner. I honestly can't imagine paying that much for a depreciating asset!

The older you get, the more space/comfort you need, and sailboats have less beam (width) than power boats. But, fuel costs are greater, so there's a tradeoff. The higher the initial cost of the boat, the higher all other fees will likely be. The bigger the boat, the harder to handle, too. Try checking out some books by Don Casey, he's a great author with a healthy perspective on costs of boat ownership.

Insurance, taxes, slip rental, fuel, upgrades, maintenance are also a bit flexible--how much of your own bottom painting can you do, etc? I would recommend that you spend a couple of vacations doing bareboat chartering (the Abacos in the Bahamas are great) with the family and seeing how you all like it. We saw a lot of young families doing this when we were there. And loved drinking a cocktail while watching them drop anchor...and drop anchor...and drop anchor, cussing all the while!

The kind of boat that is great for family cruising near home is a completely different from the ocean passagemaker type of boat. You need to determine what your realistic uses for the boat would be, and buy that boat. It is easy enough to take just about any seaworthy boat down the ICW and then a day crossing to the Bahamas from West Palm Beach, but open water passagemaking to Bermuda is a totally different animal. My DH would love to do a circumnavigation, but that boat is so specialized, and so expensive, that we would not want to justify the cost for a 2-3 year experience that might not be all that and a bag of chips for me.

You are smart to start asking questions now, and the brand chatter is not relevant yet, just tune it out! Try out a lot of boats, walk a lot of docks, read a lot of books!


And hey, totally off topic, have you been to the Hideaway BBQ in Raleigh? My favorite singer/songwriter Chris Knight is playing there the end of the month. We are going to see him in Charlotte and thinking of making a weekend out of it. Long way, though!

Sarah



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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-05-2007, 03:49 PM   #25
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Re: How many here have a boat?

Hey Justin,

I don't know much about sailboats but DW does. She used to race on a team. She says they are way too much work. I don't know but I thought one would be fun.

Slip costs on a 35 footer in Pensacola would run you $300 - $500 per month - depending on the Marina. WHile you are traveling you can spend the night on the hook, or go to a marina and rent a slip. Fuel would not be that big of a deal because the sailboats usually have a small diesel - just have a flexible time table - 'cause you are not going anywhere fast unless you have a brisk breeze. Maintenance ---well there are a lot of lines, sails, pulleys, etc. and don't underestimate what salt water can do to just about everything - especially electronics.

I like your plan it sounds like a blast.

Have fun!!
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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-05-2007, 04:07 PM   #26
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Re: How many here have a boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclesters
Hey Justin--when we get the trawler, y'all come down and cruise with us in Charleston and see how you like the lifestyle!

....

And hey, totally off topic, have you been to the Hideaway BBQ in Raleigh? My favorite singer/songwriter Chris Knight is playing there the end of the month. We are going to see him in Charlotte and thinking of making a weekend out of it. Long way, though!
Thanks for the invite to go cruisin. I may take you up on it!

Yeah - I have no idea how much I will like sailing. I've never done it but always wanted to. I've done a lot w/ the very small watercraft (canoeing/kayaking and whitewater rafting, and jonboat on a lake). And a decent amount on very large boats when I get the chance (100000 ton cruise ships, and ferries). Well, riding on the large ships, not driving the boat. I loved it all, so I figure sailing will be equally satisfying - don't know how valid this assumption is.

About Hideaway BBQ - never been there (yet) but I heard it is good and has a great atmosphere - usually has a band playing most nights. It's right down the road from me about 1-2 miles.
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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-05-2007, 05:30 PM   #27
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Re: How many here have a boat?

Had an 18' Sea Ray bowrider for about three years. Relatively inexpensive to own and operate, since mostly we went to a secluded cove, and drank beer...



If I ever get another boat, it'll be a pontoon boat, with a barco lounger, BBQ, and very large cooler.

Slips for the eighteen footer were around $130ish a month. I trailered mine.
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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-05-2007, 07:55 PM   #28
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Re: How many here have a boat?

Don't have a boat but do have a son & DIL who have several... and a boat yard on the west coast. They can lift up to 60T. I am an old gal with a point of view about boats, and access to folks who know what they are talking about.
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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-05-2007, 10:31 PM   #29
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Re: How many here have a boat?

I am looking for a used fishing boat. Have looked at a few............I want a deep V like a Lund or Alumacraft, motor no bigger than 90hp, with the fishing setup.

However, I am only willing to spend up to $7000, so I am still looking...................
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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-05-2007, 10:32 PM   #30
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Re: How many here have a boat?

Having owned boats for 45+ years (and built 4), ranging in size from 15' to 35', I can state with some certainty the following:

1. A boat is a hole in the water, surrounded by fiberglass/wood/steel, into which you endlessly shovel money;
2. Stand in a cold shower, fully dressed, while you tear money into small bits and watch them swirl down the drain. That's yachting.
3. The more they're loaded, the less they leave the dock.
4. If you can carry more than one, the price doubles; if you can sleep aboard under a solid surface, the price doubles again; if it has an inboard engine, the price doubles again. And so forth.
5. If it floats, it's expensive. If you have to pull it out of the water for the winter, double the cost.
6. Two older men are walking down the street. The better-dressed guy stops and checks trash cans for food. The worse-dressed guy owns a yacht.
7. You invite a friend to go boating. Friend beings a hot babe, who prances around your bot in stiletto-heel strappy sandals, leaving little quarter-inch puncture marks all over the deck. Friend drinks, and then throws up in the cockpit. Babe flushes a tampon in the marine head (toilet), which takes about 2 hours to disassemble and repair. Babe throws up inside boat. Babe and friend argue and fight. Fairly soon, you have no friends.
8. You and DW invite a friend to go boating. Friend brings a nubile young thing in a Wicked Weasel Bikini. You are cooped up on the boat all day. At day's end, DW isn't so D anymore. You find yourself living on board your boat.

I 'swallowed the anchor' 3 years ago. Last year I bought a maxi-scooter, and do my single-handed cruising on the open road. Bought a used powerful motor-scooter with automatic transmission (no shifting). I sleep in motels, or swing a hammock in the best of weathers. Best decision I ever made.

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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-05-2007, 10:41 PM   #31
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Re: How many here have a boat?

love boats, love boats, love love love boats. love big boats. love little boats. love sail boats, love powerboats, love motorsailing boats. i plan to live aboard one day. no house no car just boat. i'm considering a 2003-2005 version of the mirage 37 ft flybridge trawler for about $350k or a 15 to 20 year old 42 ft krogen for $250k & then add $100k to refit. i think i could single-hand either. i would trade my house today if you all hadn't already scared the inflationary hell out of me. so now i feel it makes more financial sense for me to wait until i'm at least 55 or better yet 57 before i sell the hopefully appreciating house to buy the more likely depreciating boat.

boats do not necessarily depreciate if you buy an excellent quality boat and maintain it properly like i plan to do. likely its value will not beat or keep up with inflation but it could actually appreciate some under the right circumstances.

many boaters cite 10% of the cost of the boat as the average annual cost of keeping it. this depends on moorage (much cheaper in some mid atlantic states than florida or northeastern metro areas), the boat's condition (will you be replacing lots of electronics, rigging, etc.?). insurance can vary widely. for instance. on $300k hull value, you might pay $3500 per year excluding florida but pay $6500 to cruise here (during hurrican season) & with a higher deductible. will you be home-based or cruising constantly, and if so, staying on the hook or at marinas? dockage is a lot cheaper if you pay annually as opposed to a few days at a time.

better than the 10% rule, the general rule is that you'll spend whatever you have. my tentative budget for planning purposes includes: $5000 boat insurance; $9000 dockage; $6000 fuel oil (bahamas or caribbean winters/downeast or great lakes summers); $10,000 msl repairs & replacements which i just added up and it coincidentally comes to just under 10% of the $350k boat i'm considering. my moorage will be high because as a single guy i figure i'll want to stay at marinas for socializing.

justin, 35 ft is plenty good for two adults and two little kids. not good for kids going through adolescence. i can't imagine a better life for kids than cruising with their parents. such living makes up some of my very most wonderful memories.

this is the mirage 37. it actually has more living space than the krogen 42 and the engine room is large enough to dance in. twin screw (both skeg protected) and shallow draft (i think about 3 ft 6 in). will go 1500 miles on 600 gals. you can sort of go around the world in this but you'll be shipping the boat across the big oceans on transport vessels.



here's the krogen 42. top off 700 gals and throttle back to 6 knots and you can make it to hawaii so, properly fit out, this puppy can take you around the world on its own bottom.


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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-06-2007, 07:47 AM   #32
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Re: How many here have a boat?

Hi,

Have a 24foot pontoon boat in Maine but nothing down in Myrtle beach so have been looking at:

http://northmyrtlebeach.freedomboatc...3/Default.aspx

Costs about $15000 for five year membership plus $75. per month. Comes out to about $4000/yr. Can have 4 reservations on the books at a time. 5 new boats to choose from, 2 pontoon 2 cuddy cab (one big one, one samall) 1 offshore center console fisher. .....

You make a reservation. Pick up the boat. Use it for half or full day. Drop it at the dock. They gas it up, charge your credit card and you leave. They clean it up and dock it. Can use boats all over the counrty at other Freedom boat clubs. Be great to have access to a boat while in Florida....

If I could find a reliable low mainataince boat for $10k. I'd still need to pay $2500 a year for dry storage or $3500 plus for a wet slip if I could find it. Add in insurance, maintainance etc and I would easily be over $4k per year. Freedom Boat Club is right down the street. I can call anytime and if a boat is available I can use it and not effect any of my reservations.

It's a new franchise so am a little leery about coughing up $15k up front. Waiting to meet with the owner to disuss his' business plan, breakeven point, etc. No Freedom Boat Club Franchise has ever failed and I have a letter from the Franchiser stating that the "intention" if a Franchisee ever fails is for them to take over. The Franchiser actually owns about 1/3 of all the franchises...

Worth considering,

W
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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-06-2007, 07:59 AM   #33
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Re: How many here have a boat?

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Originally Posted by Ed_The_Gypsy
I have a picture of a boat. Every once in a while I look at it and burn a $10 bill.


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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-06-2007, 09:16 AM   #34
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Re: How many here have a boat?

Justin, LG4N brought up an excellent point, it costs as much money as you have! While that sounds flip, there is an inherent truth, similar to what you may have found about raising children and the associated costs. You will spend what you have available on your kids, and you will spend what you have available (earmarked) for the boat, on the boat. Like expectations for your kid's college education--do you intend/hope for them to go Ivy League, or to the excellent state schools in NC (thereby saving money)?

With the boat, it is similar. You can spend $30k on a boat that will take you where you want to go, or you can spend $130k on a boat that will be BBF (bigger, better, faster). Never is this more apparent than when cruising somewhere like the Abacos. THere were boats there that were unbelievably kitted out, and those so tiny you couldn't believe two adults and two kids were living aboard. All of them seemed pretty happy, well, except for the guy that had flown in an engine expert for his $500k motoryacht that was sitting dead in the water!

Like everything else, there are tradeoffs. I am overwhelmingly in favor of smaller, slower, cheaper, just because I think that all boats cruising have the same waterfront view, but some just spend less to get there. When I remember the relaxing, endless-seeming days we spent cruising on little Misty, the fact we didn't have a shower aboard is less and less important. If we had waited for the boat we wanted, but couldn't afford, then we might not have gone sailing at all and gotten started on this glorious path to FIRE!

Here's a picture of Misty Morning, our previous boat, a 28' Morgan Out Island.

Sarah


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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-06-2007, 09:46 AM   #35
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Re: How many here have a boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclesters
Justin, LG4N brought up an excellent point, it costs as much money as you have! While that sounds flip, there is an inherent truth, similar to what you may have found about raising children and the associated costs. You will spend what you have available on your kids, and you will spend what you have available (earmarked) for the boat, on the boat. Like expectations for your kid's college education--do you intend/hope for them to go Ivy League, or to the excellent state schools in NC (thereby saving money)?
Yeah - I see what you mean. I'd probably figure out what I had to spend on the boat and then pick an appropriate vessel based on my budget. I'm a fairly frugal sort in general, so I don't mind having something smaller, older or slower than the rest of the folks. I do have a wife that needs a rather minimal level of certain creature comforts (the shower might be one) - so I'm limited to a minimal level of "niceness" on a boat.

As to kids, so far they have been very inexpensive and I don't see that changing a whole lot in the future. I am planning on sending the kids to one of the two top notch local state schools unless they get huge scholarships to an Ivy-type school (or they foot the bill to wherever they want to go). Otherwise I don't see the value of paying 10x more for a similar level of "education"*. I may be impartial though, since I have degrees from both local State U's 15.5 years to go for the oldest one. Not that I'm counting...


* = beer drinkin' and partyin'.
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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-06-2007, 10:33 AM   #36
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Re: How many here have a boat?

My observation: buy a used boat (because most depreciate significantly in the first couple years) that has been thoroughly vetted by a surveyor (if you are spending really big bucks or planning to sail around the world then bring in a surveyor from a different region). Set aside time to have the hull painted and money to have blisters treated before planning to use it. Too many vessel owners neglect maintenance they can't see.

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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-06-2007, 11:31 AM   #37
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Re: How many here have a boat?

We have a 47 Bayliner Pilothouse and love it. It has all of the creature comforts. We purchased Sept 2004 in Anapolis, MD and drove it back on the water to Lake Erie. What an exciting trip it was, starting in the Chesapeke Bay to the Atlantic to NY harbor, Hudson to Erie canal to Oswego to Lk Ontario and then Lake Erie. DW and I plan to circumnavigate the Great Loop starting August 2008. Boating totally thrills us. We love being on the water. We love exploring new places. No dull moments. Boating has provided so many adventures to us in the past and we look forward to even greater adventures in the future. Costly...yes, but what price do you put on awesome experiences that last a lifetime?
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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-06-2007, 12:28 PM   #38
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Re: How many here have a boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
Let's say I get a sailboat - maybe a ~35' or so. Let's say it is 5-6 years old, and costs around $100,000. The only brand of boat I've ever really researched is Dufour - and from a quick internet search, it looks like I could find something I just described. (I don't really care if Dufours are any good, since I'm years away from buying anything - so no "OMG Dufour is for dufuses" comments ).
What will my estimated costs be? I'll pay cash for the boat. Slip fees, insurance, average annual maintenance for this type/age boat, operating expenses (gas is the biggie), etc.
Justin - US liveaboard frequently are talking about between $5k per year to $50k per year (per couple or family)
Also - how handy are you? Doing your own maintenance on boats can save you big bucks.
It looks like Cruising World took down some of their articles from the web, there was an article on budgets in Oct'06 magazine, I can only find second hand quotes, like here: http://forums.cruisingworld.com/showthread.php?p=2341


Quote:
Would it be realistic to live on this type of boat for a few months or a year with me and my wife (I know it is cramped, but could you, as a boatlover, live on this type boat)? How about with my two kids?
That's our plan for FIRE (living on a sailboat). DW likes multi-hulls (more interior room, more creature comforts), so there might be a cat (catamaran) in our future.
There are many families living aboard with kids and the general consensus is to do it after diaper age and before they are fifteen.

You are also mentioning that you can't spend a lot of time on the water due to work and kids - let me tell you that my 2.5 years old wants to go sailing every time. Although I've been warned, that by the time they turn 10 they prefer jet skis to slow sailboats

Quote:
Is this type craft oceanworthy - ie - could I go along the eastern seaboard and to the Bahamas? Circumnavigate the globe?
To answer above - yes, yes ,yes , yes.

If you & your family are in Atlanta area, stop by and we'll go sailing (we sail year around).
Some other thoughts - We decided to postpone buying a big boat until FIRE - right now owning a small trailerable which is good for day-sails and overnighting, but a week with kids in diapers would be a stretch. We charter bigger boats when we go longer.
We most likely will buy used.

Sailor
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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-06-2007, 12:43 PM   #39
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Re: How many here have a boat?

Actually when kids (a boy in my case) becomes a teen they can find sailing a lot of fun. After two football injuries my kid signed up for a sailing class and loved it. He joined a local sailing club with races, won some. Learned that Laser sailors get wet, girls like to stay dry. Sold the Laser and bought a daysailer. Raced in college.. really got a kick out of beating the Stanford and Cal teams.
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Re: How many here have a boat?
Old 03-06-2007, 02:01 PM   #40
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Re: How many here have a boat?

sailor - thanks for the response - I might take you up on your offer to go sailing, too!

Do you go sailing in lakes around atlanta frequently? I've always assumed it would be more fun to sail on the ocean/ICW, which is ~2-3 hours away for me, plus loading/unloading (unless I rent a slip). Is sailing on a lake commonly done? We have a few lakes around Raleigh where I live, but they are primarily long and narrow - 10+ miles long by 0.2-.75 miles wide. I could imagine going down them with the wind might be fun, but tacking back upwind might be quite a chore in narrow waterways w/ other boats and unmarked shallows near the bank.

I'm definitely going to have to spend a lot of time on some sailboats learning about them and about sailing before I make any decisions. And take some classes or get training from a knowledgeable friend.
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