Realized some thing yesterday

[brewer12345]

DW and I were talking about her sister and the mess that she is in. I pointed out that the mess was of her own choosing and that she could get out of it any time she chose.

That's when it hit me: I have finally reached the point in my life where I can pretty much get out of anything that I find really and truly worth escaping. Job sucks and making me miserable? There are other jobs. Can't stand to be an employee? I am more than capable of starting a business. Tired of where I live? A PITA, but not that hard to change. The list goes on and on.

Makes me wonder what other restrictions I have placed on myself that are pretty much exclusively in my own head...

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I hate to ask a seemingly stupid question, but to what "point" are you referring? If you're FI, then I would agree with you -- to a point. FI does give you freedom, but just like money, you need to use such freedom wisely and with frugality. Any number of activities can put an FI person right back into the workforce.

On the other hand, I agree in principle that most people can get out of any financial mess in which they find themselves. There will be a heavy price to pay, but that's the toll for the highway back to financial health.

 

[brewer12345]

Nope, I'm still a working stiff. But, I'm done with my education, I have completed necessary professional designations, I'm married to a companion for life, and I have accumulated enough assets that I have no worries about not making the mortgage if I were to be out of work for, well, years.

 

[retire@40]

You're probably starting to taste the milk and honey at the end of the rainbow. (I think I just made that saying up)

 

[Cut-Throat]

Brewer,

Yup, once you get to this point you understand the true meaning of  "If you've got your health, you've got everything"

- mostly because you are not in control of this. Yes you can do certain things to be healthy, but in the long run we are all dead!

 

[wildcat]

I think everything evolves around a person's financial situation.  I don't have the freedom to go where I want and do what I choose.  So I pretty much have to go where an employer wants me to go.  Tired of where I live?  Hell yeah!  I can relocate to a desirable location and take a low paying job that doesn't provide much of a payback for a couple years of graduate school.  So to me, again, the ability to change one's situation in life (aside from those that bury themselves in debt, i.e. one's own doing) depends on one's financial situation.  Lucky if you do have the freedom.

 

[unclemick]

Talk about prisons of the mind - I was layed off Jan 1993 - took a temp job in Dec 1994 - back at work(same plant, different job) - was when I realized - I didn't have to be there - realized I was FI.

 

[treypar]

I have reached FI but am still working. I am concerned primarily about health insurance and unknown significant costs that might derail my early retirement.

 

[retire@40]

So I pretty much have to go where an employer wants me to go.

That's depressing. Almost inhuman.

 

[Cut-Throat]

I have reached FI but am still working. I am concerned primarily about health insurance and unknown significant costs that might derail my early retirement.

The unknown will always be an unknown. - Does this mean you'll never retire?

 

[treypar]

Cut Throat

What was it that made you decide to retire?

 

[Cut-Throat]

Cut Throat

What was it that made you decide to retire?

When I was working there was always an event about every 3 or 4 years that pissed me off enough, that if I had enough money to retire, I would have.

When I was in your financial position, and my Boss decided that my position was going to 'change' again, I went home and ran the numbers. A couple days later I told him that things indeed were going to change! - The look on his face - Priceless!

 

[wildcat]

That's depressing. Almost inhuman.

Yeah Yeah we know RE@40 is self-employed and likes telling everyone about it. Doubt you were self-employed the day you left school friend.

 

[Nords]

Yeah Yeah we know RE@40 is self-employed and likes telling everyone about it.  Doubt you were self-employed the day you left school friend.

Don't encourage that kind of behavior, Wildcat... just ignore it and it'll go away...

 

[P.S.]

Hmm, this may sound slightly heretical to ER/FI types, but one can think of it as character building to go through certain experiences in life- the venal boss, unpleasant work/living locations...it makes the prize that much sweeter, the heart that much more grateful.

 

[Cut-Throat]

Hmm, this may sound slightly heretical to ER/FI types, but one can think of it as character building to go through certain experiences in life- the venal boss, unpleasant work/living locations...it makes the prize that much sweeter, the heart that much more grateful.

Yup, I used to say this while I was working. "This will only make my retirement that much sweeter".

 

[Arif]

Hmm, this may sound slightly heretical to ER/FI types, but one can think of it as character building to go through certain experiences in life- the venal boss, unpleasant work/living locations...it makes the prize that much sweeter, the heart that much more grateful.

I call it motivation and I am sure most on this board wouldn't change it for the world. I can't say I regret anything that I have done thus far because of the lesson it taught me. Sure I hated it while I was going through it but hindsight as it is I am stronger and a little wiser.

Case and point. We bought a day care business when we were in our mid 20s and planned to keep it as a side business. Long story short we didn't do enough due diligence and the owner lied about the income etc. WE ended up with 50k in debt which we paid off in a year ( I volunteered for a deployment to earn extra $).

After that fiasco we dusted ourselves off and started buying real estate aggreassively and never looked back. If things had worked out with the business our networth would have been 20% of what it is now.

We're living proof that you can get out of any financial setback.

 

[unclemick]

Hmmmm

By some - I was considered a character working in R&D - a character - when I was layed off - a character when it dawned on me - work was not necessary and really a 'official high class' character when I took the test on a temp job - lefthanded INTJ.

I plan to overcome this and become a crusty old curmudgeon.

In time.

Heh, heh, heh. Sometimes life is stranger than fiction.

 

[azanon]

I look forward to getting where brewer is.

I'm vulnerable.  By that, i mean i'm relatively highly educated (MA biology) but my job is very niche specific, and if i lost it, I probably couldnt get employeed even within my homestate doing what i do.  I would have to look US wide.

Even though i'm a federal employee, i do not feel immune to being fired, laid off, whatever.   I hate knowing that i'm not FI yet, and how hard it was to get to where i am today.

Probably my primary drive for working towards FI, is to eliminate that vulnerability;  that state of knowing i'd have to sell my house, significantly alter my lifestyle, etc if i were to lose my job.  I literally hate knowing i'm dependant on something that isnt guaranteed.  This is why i am scraping and clawing every dollar i can into my retirement accounts.   

I cant wait until the day comes that i know i have it made financially, and I have no need to worry about my job anymore, whether i choose to continue to keep it or not.

 

[REWahoo]

I cant wait until the day comes that i know i have it made financially, and I have no need to worry about my job anymore, whether i choose to continue to keep it or not.

Getting to that point (FI) is a wonderful feeling. But I have noticed many of those aspiring to get there use the term "the day" as if you will wake up some morning, run the numbers and be $1.00 over your goal and be able to say, "At last, I'm finally FI! ".

Barring any windfall that might come your way, I suspect you will not have a "eureka!" moment, but rather your realization of financial independence will come upon you a little more gradually, as it did in my case. You will run the numbers over weeks and months and say, "I'm almost there", then "I think I'm there", and finally, "Yep, I'm positive I'm there. And I've actually been there for a while but thought it almost too good to be true."

Or maybe I was just too conservative and afraid to admit enough was enough... REW

 

[brewer12345]

I look forward to getting where brewer is.

I'm vulnerable.  By that, i mean i'm relatively highly educated (MA biology) but my job is very niche specific, and if i lost it, I probably couldnt get employeed even within my homestate doing what i do.  I would have to look US wide.

Even though i'm a federal employee, i do not feel immune to being fired, laid off, whatever.   I hate knowing that i'm not FI yet, and how hard it was to get to where i am today.

Probably my primary drive for working towards FI, is to eliminate that vulnerability;  that state of knowing i'd have to sell my house, significantly alter my lifestyle, etc if i were to lose my job.  I literally hate knowing i'm dependant on something that isnt guaranteed.  This is why i am scraping and clawing every dollar i can into my retirement accounts.   

I cant wait until the day comes that i know i have it made financially, and I have no need to worry about my job anymore, whether i choose to continue to keep it or not.

I think that what I have recently decided is that I don't want to wait until I get to FIRE escape velocity to remove the uncertainty/vulnerability. I have a pretty good job now, but it involves long hours and will probably set me up for burnout after 3 to 5 years. It also could go away very quickly (if the company folds). That being the case, I have started to think of different things I could do that would cover my nut and have some other rewards, like fewer hours, more freedom, or more time spent at home with family. Some of these ideas are jobs, some are business opportunities. Some are realistic now, others only work if I have more capital than I do now (being able to wipe out the mortgage at one go would make the expense base a lot smaller). I still need to spend some time brainstorming for ideas, but I think this is a better way to go than just running the spreadsheet and still seeing that I am years away from my goal.

 

[SteveR]

I hate knowing that i'm not FI yet, and how hard it was to get to where i am today.

Probably my primary drive for working towards FI, is to eliminate that vulnerability;  that state of knowing i'd have to sell my house, significantly alter my lifestyle, etc if i were to lose my job.  I literally hate knowing i'm dependant on something that isnt guaranteed.  This is why i am scraping and clawing every dollar i can into my retirement accounts.   

Join the club!  The private sector is no better I can assure you.  I have been working pretty sold for 31 years in the pharma/medical device industry and am in my third major Pharma company.  I spent many years in the golden handcuffs with my previous employer and finally broke free at 50.  While I am still working it is for very different reasons.  I can leave when I want now (with some change in life style) but most days I can't believe they pay me for what I do.  Other days they cannot pay me enough.  It all balances out in the long run.  While many would consider me to be FI, I still have a hard time with cutting loose from the corporate teat.  The benefits prevent me from having to live on my own savings and the medical is paying for a lot of work on this broken down race horse right now.  I look at it as a preventive maintence program for my body.  I have a few more dental issues to get done next year at 50% so I will stick around for that.  Otherwise, I pretty much work month to month.  My next milestone is Oct. 2005.  I will be fully vested in this employer's 401(k) and that will be another chunk in the kitty.  After that, who knows.  When I finally get tired of the BS I will bail or I will just continue to collect my check and sock away the max. in the 401(k) for another month or two or three.  

The feeling that I can FI is nice but at the same time I am not ready to jump ship quite yet.  I guess I keep finding reasons to stay while my DW keeps plugging along for another 23 months.  I think she would not do well with me RE and her still working.  Maritial bliss does have benefits that money cannot buy.  

 

[azanon]

I guess what i'm admitting brewer is i dont feel as versatile as you.   Unfortunately, its more than a state of mind, because it takes certain skills to create new opportunities when you're forced to do that.  Sure, if i was put in that position i would give it my best, but i'm not so sure i'd be lucky enough to land another job equilivant to or better than the one i have now.

Being completely honest, i have a serious confidence problem that i keep hidden from everyone except maybe my spouse, and you guys now.   I feel like a guy that doesnt really know near what i should for my job or to back up my degree, etc.    Maybe i do know enough, but i dont feel like i do anyway.  I've developed an art for as least appearing to others like i'm pretty sharp, but I know a lot of it is just a facade.

So, from a rather pessimistic viewpoint;  the question for me is which will happen first;  1. my cover will be blow  2. i'll make it to FI first.    I"m hoping for FI before i'm found out.

 

[brewer12345]

I guess what i'm admitting brewer is i dont feel as versatile as you.   Unfortunately, its more than a state of mind, because it takes certain skills to create new opportunities when you're forced to do that.  Sure, if i was put in that position i would give it my best, but i'm not so sure i'd be lucky enough to land another job equilivant to or better than the one i have now.

Being completely honest, i have a serious confidence problem that i keep hidden from everyone except maybe my spouse, and you guys now.   I feel like a guy that doesnt really know near what i should for my job or to back up my degree, etc.    Maybe i do know enough, but i dont feel like i do anyway.  I've developed an art for as least appearing to others like i'm pretty sharp, but I know a lot of it is just a facade.

So, from a rather pessimistic viewpoint;  the question for me is which will happen first;  1. my cover will be blow  2. i'll make it to FI first.    I"m hoping for FI before i'm found out.

Eh, I think everyone feels that way for a greater or lesser amount of time, myself included. I find that I go though times of especially low self confidence and that sometimes I need to remember how I got as far as I have. After that, it is just thinking creatively and putting one foot in front of the next.

FWIW, most of the things that I am coming up with don't require a ton of education, experience or even intelligence. They just require effort and common sense. I am also starting to suspect that if I ddin't have the everyday pressures of work on top of me all the time, I would practically trip over all the opportunities that are actually out there.

 

[Nords]

Hmm, this may sound slightly heretical to ER/FI types, but one can think of it as character building to go through certain experiences in life- the venal boss, unpleasant work/living locations...it makes the prize that much sweeter, the heart that much more grateful.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, P.S., but this sort of logic is too often used for evil purposes.

The same argument used to be used against homeschooling.  "If these kids learn everything at home and don't have to deal with bullies & bad teachers then they'll never be able to survive in the REAL workplace."  Somehow that justifies society's tolerance of the existence of bullies & bad teachers?!

Same for venal bosses & unpleasant conditions-- they're just as unacceptable.  Wouldn't it be better to avoid all that soul-destroying "character building" and find an avocation where we could achieve financial independence doing what we love?

Stephen Covey used to have his audiences arm-wrestle for cash-- he'd give a dollar to the winner of each match.  They'd strain mightily in vain competition against each other for minutes at a time (about $10/hour per person) until they realized that they didn't have to crush the other guy-- they just had to make the match produce a winner.  Instead of beating each other out of a buck they'd quickly flip their arms back & forth, alternating wins every second and each earning $30/minute.  Cooperation was much more profitable than back-stabbing cubicle competitions.

In the 1970s Tour de France cyclists were advised to avoid sleeping in air-conditioning because "the cold air would make them sick."  So their coaches would bed the suffering cyclists down in hot, stuffy rooms (and then go sleep in their own A/C rooms) and the cyclists wouldn't get much quality rest.  The Americans came along later, questioning everything and too dumb to accept established practices, and started using A/C rooms to give their cyclists a good night's sleep.  Now no one would dream of competing in the Tour without getting adequate rest in a comfortable room.

ER would be unecessary in a perfect world.  You'd enjoy your job but you'd prefer to achieve financial independence early enough to pursue your other interests.  Or you'd enjoy your avocation so immensely that ER, FI, & other interests would be irrelevant.

But it's a lot easier to wax this philosophical when you're already ER'd...