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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-25-2006, 11:40 AM   #21
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
....However, it doesn't cjange the fact that much of our educational system is set up to churn out worker bees who will toil away in cubes for far more of their natural lives than seems reasonable....
I think most people would be drones anyway. For every high school dropout/barely grad that goes on to be fabulously succesful (Subway founder) you have 10,000 who are emptying trash cans at my office and renting a room and getting into fist fights at the beer league softball game over a call at second base. This is first hand observation, I have friends and relatives there and their lives are pretty monotonous and sh***y. My friends who went to college actually seem to have independent thought, aspirations, something to live for. Those who didn't seem to be distracted themselves with cheap beer and BBQ's while they "wait for God".

...also, I agree with some others here, college was a blast for me, saw a lot, did a lot, played a lot, and had my world view broadened. And I went to a crap university!
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-25-2006, 12:01 PM   #22
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Not all of us can/wish to suckle at the federal/state/local teat. Someone has to be productive to make the economy work.
Brewer - you are spewing a stereotype that has little validity. I worked hard and long for 31 years. I never received a single hour of overtime. Most of my peers did the same. The number of slackers was no higher than in typical private sector companies. And, with a few exceptions, the private sector companies we brought in when we outsourced were not more capable or cheaper than the Feds they replaced. Why do you think so many people here complain about the bucket of BS they had to carry around in their companies? Why is Dilbert funny?

Most of my peers retired from Government to immediately turn around and make more in the private sector. I could have done the same but chose to actually retire.



















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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-25-2006, 12:08 PM   #23
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

Brewer,

If you haven't suckled then how can you criticise the flavor of the milk?

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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-25-2006, 12:10 PM   #24
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

Not to press a point I don't much care about, but gummint workers are funded via taxes and fees extracted out of people and comapnies whtehr they like it or not. *In the private sector, employees (and idiotic bosses, donuts at endless meetings, talc 5 year rings, etc.) are funded by revenues derived from someone who found it worth voluntarily paying for the good or service provided.

But the color of your collar doesn't much matter if you are still stomping away on the hamster wheel.
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-25-2006, 01:51 PM   #25
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

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Originally Posted by Laurence
10,000 who are emptying trash cans at my office and renting a room and getting into fist fights at the beer league softball game over a call at second base.
Shoot man, you must have a HECK of a lot of trash cans at your job, and that must be one big ass stadium they play your softball games in...

And how do they fit all 10,000 in that rented room? Do they take shifts?
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-25-2006, 02:12 PM   #26
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

That's just for me, I'm that important. See what higher education can get you?

Explaining that much beer on the expense report is always a b****, though!
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-27-2006, 10:21 AM   #27
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

Well, a college education does help you learn how to deal with rabid feminists. I learned to listen to their men-bashing BS and then when it came time to moving office furniture, I told them, "I can't help you move that 200-lb. desk because by doing so I would inadvertently belittle your capability as womyn and further the patriarchal dominance." You should have seen the look on their faces.

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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-27-2006, 10:31 AM   #28
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
I think most people would be drones anyway. For every high school dropout/barely grad that goes on to be fabulously succesful (Subway founder) you have 10,000 who are emptying trash cans at my office and renting a room and getting into fist fights at the beer league softball game over a call at second base. This is first hand observation, I have friends and relatives there and their lives are pretty monotonous and sh***y. My friends who went to college actually seem to have independent thought, aspirations, something to live for. Those who didn't seem to be distracted themselves with cheap beer and BBQ's while they "wait for God".

...also, I agree with some others here, college was a blast for me, saw a lot, did a lot, played a lot, and had my world view broadened. And I went to a crap university!
According to Drucker (well, there goes my independent thought process), us knowledge workers own the means of production, our know-how and skills, so we get to pick and choose whom we will work for. Without a degree, even if you somehow manage to get into the knowledge-worker ranks, you're still bound to one employer because outside of that one employer, you have no credibility. Sad but true.
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-27-2006, 10:52 AM   #29
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

Maybe its not do-able today...but...

No college degree, barely escaped high school. Plenty of employers willing to hire me throughout my career. A couple of companies that wouldnt even look at a resume that didnt have a masters or higher on it...their loss. Retired at 39.

Seems one can learn and be employed without it, at least during the 80's and 90's...
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-27-2006, 11:01 AM   #30
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

If you can get past the gatekeepers without a degree, appearing to fit into the environment is what counts, which in the software biz anyhow usually means smart & articulate, can answer tricky questions without getting flustered, not too terribly introverted or arrogant, and willing to do what it takes (work weekends, travel, cut corners, fix someone else's bugs...). And as to arrogance, some places are not very particular! <oblique reference to "Sense & Sensibility">
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-28-2006, 05:39 PM   #31
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

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Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Maybe its not do-able today...but...

No college degree, barely escaped high school. Plenty of employers willing to hire me throughout my career. A couple of companies that wouldnt even look at a resume that didnt have a masters or higher on it...their loss. Retired at 39.

Seems one can learn and be employed without it, at least during the 80's and 90's...
What exactly did you do, CFB, software sales? Well, that's an exception. A good sales guy is literally worth millions, so degrees aren't that important.
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-28-2006, 06:39 PM   #32
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

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Originally Posted by BunsOfVeal
What exactly did you do, CFB, software sales?
Oooooh... I just heard a gauntlet slap to the ground...
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-28-2006, 06:45 PM   #33
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

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Originally Posted by BunsOfVeal
What exactly did you do, CFB, software sales?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Oooooh... I just heard a gauntlet slap to the ground...
Hmmmm. I always thought he was in marketing...


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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again
Old 07-29-2006, 10:58 AM   #34
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Re: *Sigh* Fred has a good point again

A little of everything. Started out as a teenager getting the coffee and running the cash register at a computer store and learned coding on my own. Wrote systems software for about 5 years, did some microprocessor and communications equipment hardware work for about 4 years, sales for another 5, IT for four, and then marketing for three.

Ah Wahoo...if it werent for us marketing guys, folks like you wouldnt know what you really wanted and what to buy! You'd all be lost down at the Best Buy, wandering around with vacant stares, leaving with full wallets and empty arms...

Life just wouldnt feel complete. Everyone would just feel an empty ache in the pit of their stomachs and not know how to fill it.
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