Thinking about pulling out of rat race at 32 - - good or bad idea?

[denefi]

Wow! You all have really come out of the woodwork to offer up some great thoughts, and I really appreciate it. This type of community is invaluable as this isn’t the type of stuff I’m comfortable talking about with folks at work, or even the friends with whom I have mindless fun.

I think it's important to do some world travel when you are young.

I couldn’t agree more. I’ve actually been lucky up until now and have been able to travel extensively including a semester in England – Europe, Central America and Africa. I definitely want to keep it up.

Well, what you post can be done.... but is that the life you want to live

I suspect your right that I’d have to work pretty hard and long at jobs that pay less than what I’m currently pulling in. One of the things I’ve thought about doing is going up to Alaska and getting seasonal fishing work, but maybe that’s just the romantic in me… Also, it’s extremely helpful to hear examples of folks who go that route (like the ski bums you mentioned) and end up sort of just having that. That’s not really what I want.

I would suggest that you let your dislike of the work environment motivate your simple living/high savings lifestyle that will lead to early retirememt.

I'm starting to sway in this direction. Fact is I'm not sure that I like to work, period. Maybe this job (decent pay, good retirement, good work life, and good vaca) is actually a good fit for what I'm looking for. The work life and retirement benefits were actually huge factors when I decided to join this company.

My take is, jobs generally suck and you can't do nearly as much awesome fun stuff if you have to be somewhere responsible for stuff during the daytime hours. But they typically pay well enough to live a decent life and also enough to allow you to save a large proportion of what you make.

Haha well put! I know several people that are in jobs that they're truly passionate about, though, and thought "Why can't I have that?" But, again, my passions don't pay well.

I'm 34 and I completely understand the temptation to go have some adventures.

It's a temptation I have chosen to resist, because it seems the grass is always greener.... Also, a good paying job with reasonable hours is a pretty great gig, and hard to replace when you get back from your travels.

So the idea you propose sounds financially risky to me, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong choice for you.

I've decided to hunker down and find happiness in my work while we save for ER. Keep us posted on what you decide.

SIS

Really appreciated this, thanks. Granted I've still got a lot of time ahead of me and stuff to think through, but this whole thread has made me more appreciative of what I have. I could certainly make a career where I'm at, live comfortably, probably retire early, and have time outside to pursue passions (and eventually spend with my family )

...I definitely don't feel at all that waiting was a bad choice or that I can't do the things I could have at 40 (or even 28). I'm in much better shape now physically. I actually want to do some of the things you mentioned, or at least similar, like hiking the full Pacific Crest Trail, and I feel like I will now have the time and resources to do it without worrying about having to go back to work later. I know that at 28 it seems like you need to get away now in order to be able to do all those physical things, and maybe there is a ticking clock at some level, but if you stay fit while building up your finances for a few years I think you will be glad for it.

Also, you seem to have only started working in April. Guess what, you're still the new guy. You probably need to put in more time before you have the experience to be given greater responsibility that challenges you. Since you need to stay in the job for 5 years to be vested, I say do that and give it a fair shake. Go ahead and plan to leave in April 2017 but also work hard to become good at what you do and advance between now and then. Take vacations to quench the adventure thirst. I suspect that after a few years you will rethink your plan and decide to stick it out just a few more years so that you can really retire without having to plan to work again.

Good luck

Really helpful, thanks! Also, I am 100% determined to maintain and further my fitness, much like you. I'm currently in to CrossFit and look forward to building out my own garage gym once I purchase a home! I know a lot of people that have moved up the career ladder pretty quickly, but their singular focus on professional success has been detrimental to their health. Doesn't happen to everyone, but it's certainly a lot harder to stay healthy when you don't have good balance.

Also, I'm sure the work will get more challenging and interesting, and it helps to remind myself that from time to time, as I can get caught up in the 'current'.

I say go for it, and when I say "it," I mean an undefined period of funemployment....

Also, maybe just say the hell with it and quit now? 5 years is going to be a long time to do something that is not fulfilling, and then also, you'll be "old."...

...And I'm pretty sure I owe the duration to the fact that I find my family so fulfilling. My job is just a means to an end, and that is fine with me.

So I'm inclined to stick around and build up some strong savings/retirement because in the past I haven't made that a focus, and I now regret it. I'm sure that I'll eventually have a family and would like to have a solid foundation to provide with, or at least not be in a position where I feel myself needing to claw back financially. Perhaps I'll end up following the same path as you and having a decent job and finding fulfillment elsewhere.



** **

All, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and insights! It's helped to broaden my perspective a lot. My thought is right now that I'm pretty lucky to have a job that's 'ok' interesting but should get more so, and that provides space outside to explore passions. As an add-on, my brother is in the adoption process right now and I could be an uncle any week! So sticking around the Boston area wouldn't be the WORST thing

-Denefi

 

[MasterBlaster]

I'm still trying to decide what I want iout of life too. And I'm long past the 20s or 30s target population for a mini-crisis.

When someone figures out what is the best way to lead your life, please let the rest of us know.

 

[denefi]

I'm still trying to decide what I want iout of life too. And I'm long past the 20s or 30s target population for a mini-crisis.

When someone figures out what is the best way to lead your life, please let the rest of us know.

Haha I would like to hear that as well. My running joke is that I'll know when I retire what I've decided on as a career.

 

[obgyn65]

Sounds like you have made up your mind already. You have one life. Do what feels right to you. Good luck, denefi.

What do folks think?

Denefi

 

[RAE]

I am currently weighing whether or not it is realistic to duck out of the corporate world once I hit the 5 year mark in April 2017 and start traveling in a financially sustainable way (e.g., teach English abroad, work at a national park in the US, work as a deck hand on a ship sailing across the ocean...).
Denefi

I would tend to agree with the advice some have given to first try to relocate in your current field to a place that you think you might like better (Austin, Denver, etc), and then continue to research your options from there. I'm quite familiar with seasonal work in the National Parks, and I can tell you that it's a tough life......even if you could land that kind of job (which is not easy these days), you won't make much money and the work at that low level is not all that exciting (think cleaning outhouses, pulling invasive weeds, and that kind of thing). I do understand your desire to find a job that is more in line with your interests, and at your age, I'd say now is the time to search for that job. But, if I were in your shoes I'd first line up a job (probably in your current field) at your desired location, and then do your job search/research from there. There are probably lots of other jobs out there (other than the ones you've mentioned above) that you would find more fulfilling than your current job, and that would pay a lot better than the ones you've mentioned also.

 

[NW-Bound]

Talk about working in a national park, in my RV treks, I have stayed in a few campgrounds that used full-time RV'ers as camp hosts. In some camps, they did not have to do the heavy lifting like cleaning toilets and only had to greet and log in campers. But I understand that they did not get paid, and the compensation was just for the free stay, often with water/electricity/sewer hookups to their RV, but not always. But they cannot venture very far from the campground because they work 8 hours/day for 4 days, with 3 days off. It's still a job! And in many smaller CGs, there was only one host couple, but I did not ask if they had to be there solidly throughout the summer or not.

The above low compensation may be OK for retirees who have other incomes, and do not have to pay for health insurance, and are not as physically active as a young person. I did not see young people doing this work.

 

[haha]

Hi all,

I am currently weighing whether or not it is realistic to duck out of the corporate world once I hit the 5 year mark in April 2017 and start traveling in a financially sustainable way (e.g., teach English abroad, work at a national park in the US, work as a deck hand on a ship sailing across the ocean...).

Maybe before you get too deep into this fantasy of ship's crew you should head down to the waterfront and get a look at today's seamen. Not sure it would be an ideal gig for a nice college educated boy like you.

Ha

 

[chris2008]

Some good read:
"Your money or your life" by Vicky Robin/Dominguez

 

[FUEGO]

So I'm inclined to stick around and build up some strong savings/retirement because in the past I haven't made that a focus, and I now regret it. I'm sure that I'll eventually have a family and would like to have a solid foundation to provide with, or at least not be in a position where I feel myself needing to claw back financially. Perhaps I'll end up following the same path as you and having a decent job and finding fulfillment elsewhere.

That's the key. At some point in a few years, maybe 5 when you get vested, you will look back and say "wow I have a few hundred thousand dollars". Having a little wealth will give you peace of mind and options that most of your peers won't have. I doubt you will reflect back and say "I wish I never accumulated all this wealth".

 

[catccc]

I will admit it is nice to go off into a bit of an unknown with a cushion under you. DH and I planned on a long honeymoon, and we weren't sure what jobs we'd have when we returned. I'd already saved up a good bit, retirement and otherwise. So I said, "hey, worst case scenario, at the end of our honeymoon, we'll be on a beach with 150K in the bank. I can live with that!" We both ended up returning to jobs, but it was a nice thought.

And there was a year I was at a job and wasn't eligible for a match for the 1st year, so declined to contribute to the 401K altogether. Am very sorry about that now, as I know I would have not missed the income.

So I get it.

 

[nvestysly]

Some good read:
"Your money or your life" by Vicky Robin/Dominguez

There are many books on retirement and finances but this one by Joe Dominguez and Vicky Robin really gets at the core of where money (and how much money) fits into your life.

Look online for the workbook that goes along with Your Money Or Your Life. The workbook really drives the points home. If you can't find the workbook, send me a PM and I'll provide a PDF copy.

 

[haha]

There are many books on retirement and finances but this one by Joe Dominguez and Vicky Robin really gets at the core of where money (and how much money) fits into your life.

Look online for the workbook that goes along with Your Money Or Your Life. The workbook really drives the points home. If you can't find the workbook, send me a PM and I'll provide a PDF copy.

Perhaps along with these one should read how Joe's life turned out. To me at least, not exactly an excellent path.

Ha

 

[lhamo]

Joe died of cancer at a relatively young age -- is that what you are referring to? Other than that unfortunate and untimely end, I don't see a lot of difference between his lifestyle and that lived by many members of this forum.

Joe Dominguez, 58, Championed A Simple and Frugal Life Style - NYTimes.com

His co-author/partner Vicki Robin is apparently still alive, well, and living a full frugal life.

 

[catccc]

regarding Your Money or Your Life- I agree this is a great read. I don't follow the "program" completely, but it is a good foundation in principle.

Good thing Joe became financially independent so early so he could enjoy his remaining years!

 

[NW-Bound]

I never heard of Joe Dominguez and his book until I came to this forum. I guess that was because I did not aspire to retire early until a few years ago. I still wanted to accumulate more money, as I still liked to work.

Anyway, Joe was said to retire in 1969 at the age of 31 with $100K. That is equivalent to $631K today. A lot less than many people in this forum would consider sufficient, but he did have some money. He died in 1997. I am curious to know how his stash held up during his retirement years.

 

[catccc]

I never heard of Joe Dominguez and his book until I came to this forum. I guess that was because I did not aspire to retire early until a few years ago. I still wanted to accumulate more money, as I still liked to work.

Anyway, Joe was said to retire in 1969 at the age of 31 with $100K. That is equivalent to $631K today. A lot less than many people in this forum would consider sufficient, but he did have some money. He died in 1997. I am curious to know how his stash held up during his retirement years.

I believe he had everything invested in treasury bonds, and lived solely off of the interest. That is what earlier versions of YMOYL plugged. It has since been updated since this approach was just too conservative for most. So his stash probably held up quite well.

 

[NW-Bound]

With conservative investments like that, he would not be able to draw all the interests, and must allow for inflation, else his principal would have shrunken dramatically in buying power.

In Jan 1997, his initial $100K would be equivalent to $28.9K in Jan 1969! So, he would have to live on just a fraction of the interests. That made it that much harder.

 

[boatfishandnature]

If you really don't like what you are doing at age 28, I think it makes sense to pivot and find your passion. You only get one life.

X 2! The is a little book called "Working Smart" by Michael LeBoeuf. It is mostly about time management, but the first couple of chapters walk you through a system to help you figure out your priorities and what you really want out of life (and therefore what should be the most important priorities on your calendar).
I would start with that.

There are many jobs that fit the description of what you like (including some that could benefit from an MBA, like resort management).

 

[haha]

Joe died of cancer at a relatively young age -- is that what you are referring to?

Of course not. If you are familiar with Joe's financial position through his life, and feel good about emulating that path, then it's for you.

Ha

 

[Nords]

Joe died of cancer at a relatively young age -- is that what you are referring to? Other than that unfortunate and untimely end, I don't see a lot of difference between his lifestyle and that lived by many members of this forum.

Anyway, Joe was said to retire in 1969 at the age of 31 with $100K. That is equivalent to $631K today. A lot less than many people in this forum would consider sufficient, but he did have some money. He died in 1997. I am curious to know how his stash held up during his retirement years.

I believe he had everything invested in treasury bonds, and lived solely off of the interest. That is what earlier versions of YMOYL plugged. It has since been updated since this approach was just too conservative for most. So his stash probably held up quite well.

With conservative investments like that, he would not be able to draw all the interests, and must allow for inflation, else his principal would have shrunken dramatically in buying power.
In Jan 1997, his initial $100K would be equivalent to $28.9K in Jan 1969! So, he would have to live on just a fraction of the interests. That made it that much harder.

Here, let me get that for you.

From 2011 Update: Real-Life Retiree Investment Returns :

Two prominent early retirees have followed the 100% fixed income approach. Your Money Or Your Life author Joe Dominguez invested in only US Treasury securities when he retired in 1969 at age 31 and continued to champion that approach up until his death in 1997. Dominguez retired in 1969 with a $100,000 portfolio and $7,000 per year in living expenses. An August 1996 Kiplinger's Personal Finance Magazine article revealed that Dominguez was then living on about $13,000 per year. To keep pace with inflation, $7,000 in 1969 would need to grow to $30,360 by 1996 to maintain the same purchasing power. Dominguez managed this loss of spending power with unusual living arrangements (he lived in a group home with about 30 other people) and a lot of composting and the washing and reusing of tin foil and wax paper -- a strategy that few early retirees would tolerate.

Paul Terhorst, author of Cashing in on the American Dream: Retire at 35 limited his investments to a laddered portfolio of FDIC-insured Certificates of Deposit (CDs) when he retired in 1984. His web site ( http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Shores/5315/ ) reveals he holds "a more traditional portfolio heavily weighted with low-cost [equity] index funds" today.

 

[NW-Bound]

Here, let me get that for you.

From 2011 Update: Real-Life Retiree Investment Returns :

That Web page contains excellent info on how different portfolios would fare in the recent years, including the Great Recession we just went through.

I have bookmarked it, and will study it some more. The info on how a pure fixed-income portfolio fared in the past will still be dismissed by some people as impossible to recur in the future, but hey, it's their money. I can and will only worry about my own.

 

[nvestysly]

Here, let me get that for you.

From 2011 Update: Real-Life Retiree Investment Returns :

Thanks for the link - I'll definitely spend some time investigating and understanding the data. I've long been a YMOYL proponent for everything except the fixed income approach. The stock market is the way to go for me and DW.

 

[Khufu]

Of all the plans I have read people considering on this board this looks like the worst one. The chances of success would be vanishingly small.

 

[catccc]

Thanks for the link - I'll definitely spend some time investigating and understanding the data. I've long been a YMOYL proponent for everything except the fixed income approach. The stock market is the way to go for me and DW.

+1. As I'd mentioned before, I think the newer versions of the book dismiss the fixed income approach. But yeah, there's no way I'd get to FI or sustain a comfortable retirement investing only in bonds.

I actually didn't know how Joe's life turned out... bursted my bubble a bit to find out. But still, since his life was relatively short, it must have been nice to spend much of it in retirement, even if those last years don't sound so ideal.

 

[timeasterday]

That's the key. At some point in a few years, maybe 5 when you get vested, you will look back and say "wow I have a few hundred thousand dollars". Having a little wealth will give you peace of mind and options that most of your peers won't have. I doubt you will reflect back and say "I wish I never accumulated all this wealth".

A few hundred thou after 5 years?? I want in on that! Took me longer than that to just get in the 6 figures. In the current environment it may take longer.