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Old 10-09-2007, 02:32 PM   #41
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Me too! It will employ idle hands that might otherwise find their way to The Devil's Workshop.

Ha
And it's gettin' kinda crowded in here...
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Old 10-09-2007, 04:26 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ERD50
Agree 100%. I'm not a newbie, I've read many of the threads on mortgage pay-offs for example, but the info is so scattered, opinions, numbers, and subsequent corrections and references make it tough to separate the wheat from the chaff.
-ERD50

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Originally Posted by haha View Post
This is hard to understand. Since God doesn't post on this board (well, gods maybe, but not God) it will alway be only opinions and numbers. What else is there?

Ha
Sorry Ha, my sentence construction could have been clearer.

I have no problem with giving and/or reading opinions. But when they get scattered, it makes it hard to digest the info. Poster A presents an opinion on post #34 of a thread, Poster B offers a different opinion in post #51 of a separate thread. A reader may never connect the two. Same with the numbers, corrections, etc.

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Originally Posted by twaddle View Post

I'd be much more worried about biases creeping into an ER FAQ, but I still think it's useful, and I appreciate the future effort.

That is why I was hoping this would be a community 'wiki' sort of effort. Let anyone on the forum have input, and let's try for some kind of consensus as to whether that input goes in or not. That is one of the things I like about wikipedia, any topic that attracts a reasonable number of contributers is likely to have BOTH sides of the story there. It does not mean they need to agree, but just present both sides in a useful way.

That is one reason, in the trial balloon I floated to try to kick this off, I avoided the words 'pro/con'. They are all just considerations. Let the reader decide, or ask more questions of the forum.

Anyone want to take a stab at adding to or editing what I put up?

"Does anyone bother to search anymore?"

-ERD50
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Old 10-09-2007, 04:40 PM   #43
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ERD50,

Thanks for your initiative to get the ball rolling on the FAQ/search project.

Suggestion: Rather than start down your own path, why don't you get with Nords, the guy who volunteered for the project and Andy gave the go ahead to, and see how you two can collaborate efforts? This may prevent duplication of effort, speed the project, and help us end up with better results.
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Old 10-09-2007, 04:58 PM   #44
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ERD50,

Thanks for your initiative to get the ball rolling on the FAQ/search project.

Suggestion: Rather than start down your own path, why don't you get with Nords, the guy who volunteered for the project and Andy gave the go ahead to, and see how you two can collaborate efforts? This may prevent duplication of effort, speed the project, and help us end up with better results.
Well, personally, I think it is of more value if lots of people have input. If it is the work of one or two, it will always have the taint of 'bias' attached to it. Nothing intended against Nords by that of course, just a general comment.

I like the 'wiki' approach. Take my shell of a start, add to it, edit it, and ask people what they think.

The intention was not for it to be 'my own path' but strictly a kick off. If it ends up with some value, and does not have a single word from my first post in it, I'm OK with that. I'm only interested in a decent end product. Why can't we all help?

-ERD50
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Old 10-09-2007, 05:07 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I'm only interested in a decent end product. Why can't we all help?

-ERD50
I think you misunderstood my post.

I agree that we need/want the input of many posters to end up with the best final results. I was only trying to say why don't you get with Nords about coordinating your efforts?

Remember, he's retired and a surf bum, so no way will he be doing all the work!
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Old 10-09-2007, 05:16 PM   #46
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I agree with ERD50 that a wiki would be ideal, and wouldn't require central command authority coordination.

I'd also like to see some sort of community copyright that prohibited commercial redistribution.

But then I have an awful lot of opinions for somebody who hasn't volunteered to help.
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Old 10-09-2007, 05:24 PM   #47
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But then I have an awful lot of opinions for somebody who hasn't volunteered to help.
Dang! You sure know how to take all the fun out of a snappy comeback...
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Old 10-09-2007, 05:41 PM   #48
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Oh, the guilt is getting to be overwhelming. As a former web weenie, I'd be willing to setup a wiki as a "build it and they will come" sort of exercise. But it would be interesting to hear from Nords and AndyR on their plans. The secrecy silence is killing me.
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Old 10-09-2007, 05:42 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
I was only trying to say why don't you get with Nords about coordinating your efforts?
Well like twaddle said, I don't think there is much coordination needed (at least at first). I see no reason why we can't start right now.

I figured all Nords would need to do is a little moderating of the input and to decide (with input from the group) when to lock it. Then actually take it and post the final FAQ to the appropriate place in the forum.

Maybe that effort will go up in flames faster than a dairy product can develop off-tastes on the dashboard of a car in a parking lot in the Texas sun, but I figure it's worth a try.

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Old 10-09-2007, 05:44 PM   #50
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I'd be willing to setup a wiki
I'm not talking about any 'building' - just grab my post and edit it, or throw it out and start over. Just copy/paste is the only tool we need. Right?

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Old 10-09-2007, 05:57 PM   #51
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Thanks for the wiki idea. For now let's allow Nords some time to put together some FAQs. If you would like to help him (I am sure he would appreciate the help) out please contact him directly, he will be the point person to help manage this. We have a new usergroup setup to allow access to make the threads in the FAQ forum have similar aspects of a Wiki (edit, add, etc). So if you want to be part of the FAQ team please PM Nords and he will then PM me.

FYI - No conspiracies going on or secrecy. Nords was kind enough to step up and help out. It's time to give him the tools and let him run with his idea.

In regards to copyright, the poster owns the copyright of that post and grants E-R.org the right to display the post. E-R.org owns the copyright on the discussions (all the posts put together).
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Old 10-09-2007, 05:58 PM   #52
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I'm not talking about any 'building' - just grab my post and edit it, or throw it out and start over. Just copy/paste is the only tool we need. Right?
But a wiki would add lots of cool features like revision history/control and other features that might help prevent an edit war and vandalism.

How does MediaWiki work? - MediaWiki
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:19 PM   #53
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Cheez whiz, guys, I'm accustomed to being criticized for things I've said & done, not for things you haven't seen & heard yet. Lighten up and give this a chance. When you do your own projects I promise to leave you alone until you have something to point at, too.

Here's the deep, dark conspiracy that I've worked out with Andy R:
Quote:
Thanks, Steve, my main motivation is to do something constructive instead of continuing my perpetual bitching that no one searches or even reads recent posts. It also helps me answer those, uh, FAQs without having to search numerous times for my old posts.

Here's one way it could work:
- Set up a new forum called "FAQs" between "Forum Admin" & "Hi, I am..."
- Put me into a new group ("FAQ Finders"?) and give that group the permission to add/edit/delete posts in that forum. You'd probably also want to give the mods & admins those permissions too, although I'm not looking to add to anyone's workload.
- Make the FAQs forum read-only visible to all, but threads would only be started/modified/deleted by members of the FAQ Finders group.

I'd fill the forum with one-post threads. Each thread's subject would be a FAQ or keywords. Each post would consist only of links to other threads that address the thread's subject. When new threads contribute to the FAQ then their link would be added to the FAQ post.

I'd start with the most popular subjects, and users could PM me (or mods/admins) to request the addition of FAQs or threads.

I sure hope the database is stable enough to preserve (or update) the links. I guess the admins would know if that could be a problem.

I'm probably forgetting a few features or trying to do something that the vBulletin software doesn't support. So let me know if there are better methods...
Andy's set up a private forum that I can post to, and I've started posting links to threads in it. (Some of you may have seen a Bernstein effort that showed up in the "Portal" this/Tuesday morning.) Andy has some questions about how it would work, I have some questions about how the board software works, and we're getting it sorted out.

That's all it is-- a collection of links with a subject. For example, on the perpetual question of paying off the mortgage, the subject would be "Should I pay off the mortgage?" and the links in the post would be as many threads as I can find on paying off the mortgage.

Turns out I'm not the first guy to have this bright idea, as Andy has suggested: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89273

I hadn't planned to take your approach, ERD, because I wanted to do a reference and not an explanation or a summary. (I already know the issues on paying off the mortgage, I just have trouble finding the damn links to my deathless prose when the question's been asked for the 40th time and this board's software makes the searching a lot harder than it used to be.) I could piss & moan about the search feature as I've been doing pretty consistently for the last six months or I could take what I see as a constructive step to fix it.

One question I have with the search feature, which at some point I'll get around to sorting out with Andy or TechAdmin or BMJ, is linking to posts vs linking to threads. From the very little work I've done on the subject, it seems as though I can find posts with the search feature-- no problem. However when I try to link directly to post #23 in that thread (instead of the first post in that thread), the link doesn't work that way-- it takes me to the board's summary of the forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
That is why I was hoping this would be a community 'wiki' sort of effort. Let anyone on the forum have input, and let's try for some kind of consensus as to whether that input goes in or not. That is one of the things I like about wikipedia, any topic that attracts a reasonable number of contributers is likely to have BOTH sides of the story there. It does not mean they need to agree, but just present both sides in a useful way.
Fellas, if I'd wanted to pull a fast one then you never would've seen this post on the board in the first place. I would've arranged it all via PMs & e-mails and there would've been a grand unveiling of the great surprise.

You wanna do a wiki, then do a wiki! It's not what I had in mind and it's not what I'd go to when a user posts about paying off their mortgage, but no doubt it'll be of use to the board. I just thought that when we suggest someone search for something or go read the old posts, that it'd be nice to have an easier collection of old posts to search.

That's all I have for you. Now I'm going to stop kvetching, get off my dead ass, and do something about it... y'all are welcome to do the same with your ideas.
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:31 PM   #54
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To link to a post, there are two methods. One is to link to it within the discussion where in the URL you add #postXYZ where XYZ = post ID (not the post number in the thread but the overall post ID). The second way is to link directly to the post only display (use the link that is part of the post number on the right of each post). See attachments.
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Old 10-09-2007, 07:08 PM   #55
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Cheez whiz, guys, I'm accustomed to being criticized for things I've said & done, not for things you haven't seen & heard yet.
Geez, I get it all the time from Mrs ERD - 'Hey, ERD you haven't done this, you haven't done that'

Seriously, no conspiracy or other negative thoughts ever entered my mind.

I thought you *were* looking for a 'wiki' type thing. But now, it is clear that what you envisioned, and what I envisioned are two separate things - and they could both be of value, IMO. But they are different projects.


Quote:
That's all it is-- a collection of links with a subject. For example, on the perpetual question of paying off the mortgage, the subject would be "Should I pay off the mortgage?" and the links in the post would be as many threads as I can find on paying off the mortgage.
OK, that's very useful, but it does not address some of the concerns I have. Mainly, that a number of those threads are long, drawn out affairs, with some 'inside jokes', math errors that get corrected far down the line, and all sorts of extraneous stuff that makes it tough for a newbie (or an oldie depending on my their mood that day) to come to any conclusion.

Quote:
You wanna do a wiki, then do a wiki! It's not what I had in mind and it's not what I'd go to when a user posts about paying off their mortgage, but no doubt it'll be of use to the board.
OK, it's up to Andy then. If he is agreeable, I'll start off a new thread, and see if anyone wants to contribute. I'm not looking for any special tools. At this level, I think it can be done with copy/paste, and notes about suggested add/deletes/edits. What I would need from Andy is some acknowledgment that he would at least consider placing the final 'product' on the forum, and lock it (or designate a moderator for this) until there is reason to re-open it (new information). I would also add a link to your reference for that subject, so they can dig through the threads at that point.

Andy - does it make any sense for me to give this 'wiki' approach a try? If so, I'll kick off the mortgage one, I'm not sure what other topics I might want to take on (if any), maybe others will have their favorites, but I'd like to give this one a try. Maybe it should be called a "Topic Summary:<enter topic here>".

-ERD50
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