Sad to see so many political posts

[metabasalt]

I've rarely been here over the last year but returned yesterday. Out of curiosity I read the Health Bill thread. Now I see it's closed and I think properly so. I won't be sticking around if all I see is so much political opinion thrown it. The other forum I frequent seems much better about not letting a thread disintegrate into junk by allowing so much unfettered political opinion. Sorry to be so negative but that's the way I see it.

 

[ERD50]

It's pretty hard to separate a Health Care Bill from politics. Passing a bill is a political process. The bill affects us, and therefore the political process is part of that.

You could do the same thing I do with threads whose subjects don't interest me - I don't read them.

I agree that blind partisan comments are just noise. I can live w/o that.

JMO - ERD50

 

[ziggy29]

Keep in mind that all the threads related to politics should be in one particular forum -- the FIRE-Related Political Topics forum. If you avoid that forum, you shouldn't be seeing any posts where politics, ideology and partisanism play a significant role.

The forum software is set up so you can "ignore" that forum if you desire:

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f32/forums-101-posting-accounts-basics-40168.html#post739553

If you see something blatantly political in a different forum you can click on the little triangle icon to report it.

 

[metabasalt]

It's pretty hard to separate a Health Care Bill from politics. Passing a bill is a political process. The bill affects us, and therefore the political process is part of that.

You could do the same thing I do with threads whose subjects don't interest me - I don't read them.

I agree that blind partisan comments are just noise. I can live w/o that.

JMO - ERD50

The problem is that I am interested, as I expect just about every American is. So I thought I might find some more objective views on it. Maybe I should say 'hoped' rather than 'thought' since I know how strong the feelings are. Nonetheless I was quite disappointed in what I saw. I guess I'll know better than to look at that sort of topic in the future. I was just hoping for something better.

 

[ziggy29]

The problem is that I am interested, as I expect just about every American is. So I thought I might find some more objective views on it. Maybe I should say 'hoped' rather than 'thought' since I know how strong the feelings are. Nonetheless I was quite disappointed in what I saw. I guess I'll know better than to look at that sort of topic in the future. I was just hoping for something better.

Sorry you feel that way. The simple fact of the matter is that there is no way to satisfy the wishes of everyone with regard to politics. I know a lot of people here would like to see it completely "off limits" because it can make a community feel a bit more contentious, argumentative and unwelcoming. Others would like to see virtually unrestricted political discussion.

The current policy can be found in the Community Rules, but the main idea behind the "middle ground" being trod is that discussion related to politics must follow all of these three guidelines:

1 -- It must be more than tangentially related to issues facing retirees and those working toward securing their future retirement;

2 -- It must be in the "FIRE-Related Political Topics" forum (not in any other forum);

3 -- It must follow all the rules concerning civility that pertain to all posts in all of the forums.

Point 1 makes it limited to relevant subjects. Point 2 makes it easy for people who want to avoid political discussion to do so. Point 3 is to keep it civil and cordial.

It's not fully satisfying to everyone, but we do hope it provides at least some leeway to discuss *relevant* politics while restraining the "worst" that heated political discussions can bring to a community.

 

[unclemick]

Weeellll since it involves life and death and money sometimes people get a tad worked up about it.

Not the same as football though.

heh heh heh - I've taken to not watching the Saint's lately as it really jumps my blood pressure. But I secretly cheer - Geaux Saints!

I don't expect to see diligent data gathering and an iluminating Red Bead Experiment anytime soon.

Happiness - todays form letter I recieved from SS dropping my Medicare deduct cause last year or so I was a 'cheap SOB' and didn't spend as much in ER as other years. 2010 is shaping up as a party til I puke year.

It doesn't get much better than this - no matter what happens in Washington.

 

[Texas Proud]

I am in favor of the political discussions... yes, some are pointed and can get a little heated.... but if you do not like them, then you can stay out of them...

To me, politics is a major part of our lives... because of the debt and spending etc... how they take from someone to give to another... the rules they make that tell you how you have to live... I am surprised how many people ignore it...

 

[bright eyed]

What Tex said...

I think for a healthy society we should get better at having political discussions rather than simply avoid them...

 

[samclem]

I've rarely been here over the last year but returned yesterday. Out of curiosity I read the Health Bill thread. Now I see it's closed and I think properly so. I won't be sticking around if all I see is so much political opinion thrown it. The other forum I frequent seems much better about not letting a thread disintegrate into junk by allowing so much unfettered political opinion. Sorry to be so negative but that's the way I see it.

Thanks for posting, but I very much disagree with you.
- Why would you be glad that the Health Bill Thread was closed? There was a lot of good information presented there, and probably more would have been added if it had remained open. There was discussion of the bill's contents (pro's and con's), its particular relevance to early retirees with HSAs, the prospects for final passage, etc.
- You think this forum has a lot of political junk? I'd like to know what else you are reading. There's more polite, respectful, and well-reasoned discussion here than anywhere else I've found. And, if even this is too much rough-and-tumble for a sensitive reader, the politics is generally segregated to a particular sub-forum.

Being an informed citizen takes work. Like it or not, the machinations of public policy have a very big impact on the wealth of Americans, including early retirees. I welcome the opportunity to exchange views with others, and I think sometimes we go too far here to stop the discussions early.

Again, thanks for the note. Maybe just read what you want. It's not hard to ignore posters or threads. I recommend you start right now by adding me to your "ignore" list if I'm not there already, because that will make everyone a little happier.

 

[bssc]

What Tex said...

I think for a healthy society we should get better at having political discussions rather than simply avoid them...

As we have noted before, there are plenty of other forums where you can work on a healthy society. And in this site, there is a forum for FIRE related political discussions. This has not changed.

 

[HFWR]

What Tex said...

I think for a healthy society we should get better at having political discussions rather than simply avoid them...

Politics, as in discussion and persuasion, is a worthy topic. Politics, as in drawing a line in the sand, then yelling "neener neener" at each other, is not so worthy...

 

[NW-Bound]

Politics, as in discussion and persuasion, is a worthy topic. Politics, as in drawing a line in the sand, then yelling "neener neener" at each other, is not so worthy...

I am among ones who straddle the line, finding myself not as informed as people who have actually read the Bill. Hence, I stand by the side to listen. And whoever foams at the mouth during any discussion would get less attention from me.

 

[harley]

I guess politics is in the eye of the beholder around here. I got moderated out of existence in the HC thread for a post I thought was pretty mild. I did make a point about supposed bipartisanship, but it was equally critical of each party. Some attitude was shown, but I don't think anything offensive. But it's gone, so I guess I was wrong. I didn't ever get to see any of the posts that came after. I assume I ticked somebody off.

 

[bright eyed]

Politics, as in discussion and persuasion, is a worthy topic. Politics, as in drawing a line in the sand, then yelling "neener neener" at each other, is not so worthy...

Yes, more the former, less the latter.

Definitely think politics can be in the eye of the beholder, as some things accepted as moderate may be really offensive to others etc etc...

The little kid stuff is the stuff that blocks the good discussions and weighing of merits etc...

 

[NW-Bound]

I guess politics is in the eye of the beholder around here. I got moderated out of existence in the HC thread for a post I thought was pretty mild. I did make a point about supposed bipartisanship, but it was equally critical of each party. Some attitude was shown, but I don't think anything offensive. But it's gone, so I guess I was wrong. I didn't ever get to see any of the posts that came after. I assume I ticked somebody off.

I came to the thread late, only to see that the piggy had spoken and that many posts were deleted. So, I missed it.

I avoided the political forum during the election year, simply because I already made up my mind (who didn't ), and saw too much name calling on both sides to my liking. This time, the Health Care Bill affects me as a semi-retiree without an attachment to a megacorp umbilical cord. I want to know what is going on, but am too lazy to read the bill to inform myself. Heck, apparently very few even in the gummint read it, though they probably each insert their own section as usual. So, I would like to read what other posters write, kind of like my own free "Executive Summary".

Harley, I missed seeing your post, so can't tell for myself if you were foaming or not, to deserve being deleted

 

[haha]

Definitely think politics can be in the eye of the beholder, as some things accepted as moderate may be really offensive to others etc etc...

It's a wonder that any of us managed to survive to adulthood, being as sensitive as we clearly are.

I tawt I saw a putty-tat, and it weally scahwed me.

Ha

 

[NW-Bound]

It's a wonder that any of us managed to survive to adulthood, being as sensitive as we clearly are.

Yes, the typical person is quite sensitive; that's why we are no politician.

It took me a while to realize that politicians, of any ideology, have VERY tough, thick, impervious skin. I do not think that I have to feel pain for any of them, because they themselves don't.

 

[donheff]

This is a troubling topic important to ERs. Many of us have strong opinions on the mater but value the perspectives of others. Sure there are politics in the thread, how could it be otherwise? But if you are interested in the issues take the time to try to understand what others think. If you want to stay away from such opinions you can simply skip threads in this area.

 

[teejayevans]

I've rarely been here over the last year but returned yesterday. Out of curiosity I read the Health Bill thread. Now I see it's closed and I think properly so. I won't be sticking around if all I see is so much political opinion thrown it. The other forum I frequent seems much better about not letting a thread disintegrate into junk by allowing so much unfettered political opinion. Sorry to be so negative but that's the way I see it.

I started the thread, and mainly did so because I thought the plain english
pdfs were very helpful.

My question to you, how is this meta-discussion helpful?
TJ

 

[ziggy29]

It took me a while to realize that politicians, of any ideology, have VERY tough, thick, impervious skin.

Unfortunately, even if this is true their family may NOT have "impervious" skin, and yet they get dragged through the mud as well.

I recall the speech Colin Powell made when he declined a presidential bid, citing desire to protect his family's privacy and to protect them from getting slimed in the process.

So in reality, to be a career politician, maybe you have to be willing to throw your family under the bus. It's another reason why I've often said that the kind of people I'd like to have in office tend to have the character traits that make them not want it, unfortunately.

 

[vicente solano]

Never met a politician I really liked.

 

[NW-Bound]

Never met a politician I really liked.

Me neither. I usually vote for one I dislike the least.

Unfortunately, even if this is true their family may NOT have "impervious" skin, and yet they get dragged through the mud as well.

I recall the speech Colin Powell made when he declined a presidential bid, citing desire to protect his family's privacy and to protect them from getting slimed in the process.

So in reality, to be a career politician, maybe you have to be willing to throw your family under the bus. It's another reason why I've often said that the kind of people I'd like to have in office tend to have the character traits that make them not want it, unfortunately.

Yes, I agree 100% with you. I myself find name calling and smear campaigns distasteful. But sadly, there is no good alternative to have an open system. I still prefer our society to the ones where the "eminent" leader has his statue in every town square, and his picture in 100ft tall posters. People kowtow to him, and those who even doubt his superior God-like intellect and "benevolence", leave alone calling him names, would be taken away, sometimes in broad daylight and not even in the middle of the night. Just look at the thread on North Korea currency to see an example of a current on-going regime.

 

[vicente solano]

And I never could stand their Christmas/New Year messages to the public in general....
I won´t go on on this subject of the politicians as a class. Give me the modern military any day.

 

[Westernskies]

I was just hoping for something better.

Me, too.

 

[samclem]

Two signs of a healthy democracy:
-- Folks openly grouse about and distrust the government and politicians
-- They elect leaders with a self-deprecating sense of humor. I don't trust leaders who aren't self-aware enough to recognize their faults and aren't secure enough to laugh about them.