Google

theoldwizard

Recycles dryer sheets
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
107
Google just took a big dive but there is serious talk about them getting into a new market space, wireless broadband.

Sounds like a good time to throw some "mad money" at it or maybe buy a couple of options :D

Comments
 
I commented on this about 2 years ago when google started making noises about offering free wireless broadband in a number of large cities.

Without going back into the archives, I believe my comments were that strategically google would do pretty well to offer free wireless broadband to much of the US, access to their web based email, calendar, office suite apps and online storage all with advertising and targeted placement.

They'd make microsoft, most of the local telephone vendors, all the "thick" pc manufacturers, television and possibly radio all but irrelevant.

Pretty big capital commitment up front, but it'd probably be worth it long term.

Edit: hah...http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/so-whats-google-up-to-18928.html
 
Why am I reminded of the Excite/@Home disaster?

A high-margin software company getting into a cut-throat capital intensive commodity hardware/services biz? Pass.
 
Hmmm...

Just a search engine vs rich set of web based apps
Limited hardwired broadband capabilities vs wide open access

I'm having a hard time seeing the connection.

And last time I checked, google wasnt much of a software company. Its an advertiser.
 
And last time I checked, google wasnt much of a software company. Its an advertiser.

Well, I see them as a software company who distributes their programs on the net rather than installing them on PCs (for the most part). And it's an ad-supported model just like a bunch of the old shareware.....

In any case, given the risks in a broadband play and their current valuation, you would have to find it a *very* compelling story to buy their stock.
 
How much money did google make last year selling software programs or access to software programs?

I think you've got their profit model a little backwards. They're selling advertising/placement and using their search engine and apps to drive eyes to it.

By the way, I wouldnt touch their stock with a custom order 20 foot pole.

However, the idea of being able to load an old computer with a google client (or get one for $50), access apps and store my data for free, no updates, no backups, yada yada...all I've gotta do is look at a few ads...seems pretty appealing to me as someone in the consumer segment.
 
How much would google make if they didn't have any software? When I build an application, I don't really care what the distribution or monetization strategy is. It still looks like software to me. :)
 
I believe google is making exactly as much with the software as they made without it. In the meanwhile, lots of companies with search engines that were just as good or better made no money and blew up. I think Altavista was better than google, while it lasted.

You know, I liked Wab better. Seemed somewhat smarter.
 
I know there were other search engines. I know there were other pay-per-click ad platforms. In fact, I believe goto.com even had an earlier ad auction model open to mom-and-pop advertisers. There were certainly other ad banner servers and context-based ad servers.

Teach me, oh wise one.

How did google win without being better? And without software? I really haven't been paying attention since I didn't buy GOOG at their IPO....
 
Ah you're such a turkey.

Google didnt really develop any applications until rather recently, so I'm not sure what 'software' you're all hung up on, unless you're counting the search engine.

Google succeeded where others failed via an interesting strategy. They gave up a lot of opportunities to focus on an (initially) simple goal: provide a bare bones search tool that was pretty effective, ad-free and uncluttered.

With that success in hand, they were able to go back and add in other ventures...quietly and seamlessly. Search placement, then actual ads, then applications, then desktop replacement apps...now...infrastructure?

The other guys were all trying to do it all, all at the same time. Mostly by jamming together disjointed companies and products in ill conceived partnerships.

All run by a bunch of 20-somethings.

Not gonna work.
 
Yes, I do consider search engines and other web services to be software. At least until Intel puts it in on a chip, at which time I'll call it hardware.

IMHO, google kicked butt because they had better search results (via the PageRank algorithm), which gave them killer organic distribution.

Then they doubled-down with a very easy-to-use AdSense software application, which enabled a lot of third-party distribution.

In other words, it's all software, and they won because they had the better software.
 
Our recollections seem to differ, which is not particularly surprising. My recollection is that googles search results were consistently not in the top two, but that people got tired of the every thickening page of crud they got from googles competitors.

I'm also having a hard time figuring out what your point is/was, which is also not particularly surprising.
 
I'm also having a hard time figuring out what your point is/was, which is also not particularly surprising.

I was just curious to see how long you would engage in an argument about semantics and how you would squirm out of it when you figured out you were wrong. ;)
 
I think you've got their profit model a little backwards. They're selling advertising/placement and using their search engine and apps to drive eyes to it.
Their model seems to have worked pretty good for them so far :D

However, the idea of being able to load an old computer with a google client (or get one for $50), access apps and store my data for free, no updates, no backups, yada yada...all I've gotta do is look at a few ads...seems pretty appealing to me as someone in the consumer segment.
And that is what exactly those advertiser are paying for !

With TiVO and channel surfers (like me) television advertising doesn't have as big of an impact as it used to.

I love Google services, especially Gmail !
 
twaddle. I'm pretty sure you're living up to your name.
 
twaddle. I'm pretty sure you're living up to your name.

With a name like Webzter, I would have hoped you'd have more to contribute to this thread than lame one-liners.

Give it your best shot. Connect the dots of all of Google's acquisitions, including their broadband play, and tell us their strategy.

Or at least play the semantics game with us and tell us why google is not a software company and can easily transform themselves into a wireless broadband services company and make a killing where others have failed.
 
With a name like Webzter, I would have hoped you'd have more to contribute to this thread than lame one-liners.

Considering that I've posted one observation in this thread, semantically, I think you'd be hard-pressed to state that I'm using one-liners. More correctly, I have made one observation.. prior to this adroit post, of course.

And, with a namesake bespoken of a cheap PC manufacturer that went bankrupt, what exactly were you looking for?

We're going to have to break your observations down a bit since you insist that it's a semantic issue at this point.

First, how do you feel Google started in life? Was it selling software or monetizing a service? And, more to the point of the discussion, what difference does it make? Does being one or the other really matter in terms of leverage and market share?

Second, what parallels do you draw between Excite / @Home and Google's play (assuming they go with something like a Google / Earthlink play)? Many things have changed since the heady days of the gold boom. Maybe the fundamentals haven't, though. So, what are the main liabilities with this type of service offering that you see? On the other side of the analysis, what are the main differences between Google's expected play and the previous play?

As for the 'what is Google' question, it seems to me that would be easy to define. First, does Google make money from selling you software or getting you to click on advertisements when you're using its services. Second, pick a technology index and pick an advertising / marketing index. As a baseline, what is the correlation between the technology and advertising indices. Then, assuming those have a low beta, does Google have a stronger beta with one or the other?
 
Googles PEG ratio is 1 which is amazing for a stock that has risen as much as this one. I think its going much higher.
 
First, how do you feel Google started in life? Was it selling software or monetizing a service? And, more to the point of the discussion, what difference does it make? Does being one or the other really matter in terms of leverage and market share?

I believe I already addressed this. If I'm building software, I don't really care how it's monetized, it's still software. They build software.

The reason it matters? Because it's their core expertise. It makes a lot of sense for them to diversify, but there's a difference between spreading your bets and entering a new market in which your existing structure provides no leverage, you have a ton of capital expenditures, you lose your core focus, yada yada.

Second, what parallels do you draw between Excite / @Home and Google's play (assuming they go with something like a Google / Earthlink play)? Many things have changed since the heady days of the gold boom. Maybe the fundamentals haven't, though. So, what are the main liabilities with this type of service offering that you see? On the other side of the analysis, what are the main differences between Google's expected play and the previous play?

I feel that I'm repeating myself. It makes zero sense for high-margin software companies (or whatever you want to call google) to enter low-margin capital-intensive commodity businesses.

Does anybody seriously believe that directly offering thin clients and broadband services, as CFB proposes for example, will increase their "eye ball" share?

Puuulease. Many have blown themselves up with that strategy. I don't believe the google team is stupid.

But there's always the possibility that they feel invulnerable and have more money than they know what to do with. If so, they wouldn't be the first company to blow themselves up due to hubris.

As for the 'what is Google' question, it seems to me that would be easy to define. First, does Google make money from selling you software or getting you to click on advertisements when you're using its services. Second, pick a technology index and pick an advertising / marketing index. As a baseline, what is the correlation between the technology and advertising indices. Then, assuming those have a low beta, does Google have a stronger beta with one or the other?

Whatya talkin bout, Webzter? Do you think they really care where the money comes from? If people were willing to pay for their software services directly, do you think they'd refuse that money?

If I write a book, that makes me an author, right? If my book becomes a TV program, and I get royalties from that, do I suddenly become an advertising company because the TV network made their money by selling time slots to advertisers?

Does that mean that I, as an author, now have the core compentencies to launch, say, a movie studio and I should expect to leverage my book into a successful competitor to MGM et al?

Do these semantic arguments really interest anybody?

Anybody want to look at google's acquistions and make a reasonable guess as to what they're up to? I've looked, and I really don't have a clue. Looks like a shotgun strategy to me.
 
I don't invest in individual stocks but being a techie I can't help liking these types of discussions. :D I mostly agree with twaddle. IMO Google cannot and won't try to enter the infrastructure market by providing proprietory consumer hardware and/or free universal wi-fi limited to or otherwise pushing their online apps. My reasoning:

1) Legal issues. Local ISPs will fight this just like they fight various municipalities' plans to provide free wi-fi "mesh". Also limiting internet access to only Google-approved sites seems at least as monopolistic as Microsoft's OS alleged "preference" for Microsoft products.

2) Net neutrality. I happen to think net neutrality is mostly a bogus cause but Google has been heavily campaigning for it for years and their entering the infrastructure market and cutting out non-Google sites/apps would be a complete 180 on the issue.

3) Bias against close/proprietory systems. This is something only techies will likely to fully appreciate but a techie-driven company with as deep Linux roots as Google is very unlikely to suddenly come out with a closed system. If anything, Google goes out of its way to provide easy access and integration to their online apps to outside parties (see Google APIs), even if there is no immediate obvious benefit to Google.

4) Cost of deployment/maintenance. Self-explanatory.

In general this strategy seems much more Microsoft-y than Google-y. Microsoft could provide a free wi-fi mesh that locks people into MSN and other Microsoft-approved sites and hosted versions of Office and whatever other apps for a small fee and/or targeted advertising. That would certainly be a huge blow to Google. And Microsoft actually has the money to pull it off. (I'm not saying they will or should, of course).

Google certainly may provide free wi-fi in some cities (San Fran) as part of their general effort to maintain and improve their good public image. But it would not be nationwide, would not include proprietory consumer hardware, and would not limit the sites that can be accessed.

What is likely to happen IMO as far as Google's online apps is that Google continues to improve their online apps, continue to improve/popularize their client-hosted software like the toolbar, and integrate the two more and more closely giving the user more and more incentive to start using them over Microsoft Office.

And of course Google will continue carrying on their hundreds of R&D projects which for them is like financing hundreds of startups. Most will amount to nothing but a few gems will pay off big like keyword-based ads did since their intro in, I think, 2000. Basically a sophisticated version of the 1000 monkeys on 1000 typewriters :)
 
GOOG is a fun company to speculate about. Lots of money, and lots of smart people.

It's pretty clear that they want to get their apps on cell phones, but I just don't believe it would be much of a market opportunity for them.

Supposedly, they acquired the guy who founded Danger (Sidekick), so one rumor is that they're building their own cell-phone OS.

The 700MHz spectrum they say they want to bid on has no existing infrastructure. No cell sites. No wireless chips. No handsets. Nada.

So, yeah, the infrastructure costs would be huge. Much higher than some sort of WiFi deployment....
 
Many good points

Well, in general, I agree with your points. However, I think any speculation that any of us could have would be wildly offbase from what will actually happen.

For example.

I was on an 'innovation' project at big consumer electronics company x... We were exploring a business model of working with ISPs to allow one consumer, say, Joe, to receive a WiMax (802.16) signal to his house. We would then flip it to an 802.11 signal. He would then be able to resell Internet connectivity to his neighbors... they would connect to his 802.11 signal and we would provision those neighbors (they were blocked at the router until we granted them access... sort of like many hotel or coffee shop systems).

If Joe wanted to offer the service for free, we might charge Joe a certain nominal fee per client per day. If Joe wanted to charge for the service, we would handle processing and settlement and take a percentage of the profits.

Expand that out to a city wanting to use that approach to offer free Internet service in their parks. Or, a coffee shop owner wanting a hotspot in a day.

bottom line, I don't see how they'd use it, but they have smarter people than me working there.

Of course, when you've got money like they do, maybe it's simpler than that. Better to own a part of the spectrum and not need it than to think you might need it and not be able to get it.
 
IMO Google cannot and won't try to enter the infrastructure market by providing proprietory consumer hardware and/or free universal wi-fi limited to or otherwise pushing their online apps.
They don;t have to get in the infrastructure business, they will "let the other guy do it !"

Google, Sprint team up on WiMAX


The deal makes Google the exclusive provider for Web search on the portal and the preferred provider of Internet chat and e-mail. Google also will be providing mobile ads, along with its search results, and sharing the revenue with Sprint.
 
Back
Top Bottom