Ishares ETFs look Flash Crashy

[FUEGO]

If you want to maybe pick up a 10%-20% instagain.

I checked IJS and IUSV and they are 20-30% down last I looked, whereas the underlying securities are probably down 4-7% max. I got trades placed but can't even get Fidelity to show order status.

GL!

 

[MichaelB]

Same here. I saw VIG at -20% so I placed some orders. I'm betting they all will be cancelled.

I can't even log into my Vanguard account.

 

[FUEGO]

Awesome. So far I got a chunk of IUSV at $100.80 (maybe 16% off FMV).

 

[MichaelB]

I got 1k shares of VIG at 64.

 

[audreyh1]

I got 1k shares of VIG at 64.

Congrats!

 

[FUEGO]

Sweet, got IJS at $82.

 

[MichaelB]

Nice.

 

[FUEGO]

I got 1k shares of VIG at 64.

Nice. I only put about $20k total into this stuff. Currently sitting on $3000 profit.

 

[FUEGO]

And Fidelity shows the trade confirmations now.

 

[MichaelB]

Vanguard's website has been a real disappointment this morning.

Still some panic out there, especially in emerging markets. I'm a bit underweight, time to nibble.

 

[ESRwannabe]

I saw AMLP flash crash as well. It was down 6% then only down .85% literally the next second.

 

[FUEGO]

Any estimate of how likely these trades are to get cancelled? Thinking about moving $60k from VBR to IJS for a ~10% arb. But don't want the buy leg of the arb to get cancelled. I'm feeling like these are just liquidity issues for thinly traded ETFs (regarding the ishares ETFs anyway).

 

[MichaelB]

No idea. The trade confirmation is a good sign.

 

[FUEGO]

Gosh, just glad I could be there to provide liquidity in the markets for these thinly traded securities. I'd like to think I made some algo computer in lower Manhattan very unhappy this morning.

 

[misanman]

Tried to buy DVY through Fidelity but it took a long time for the order to be acknowledged and then the bid/ask spread was so big I ended up cancelling. Decided to stand back until things settle down a bit.

 

[FUEGO]

No idea. The trade confirmation is a good sign.

I thought I had solid trade confirmations, then I checked the execution details and it shows share quantity as -1 for the two trades. One trade is broken into 4 different executions (which is normal) and each one has -1 for qty. Fingers crossed!

 

[FUEGO]

Looks like the fun is over. Off to eat a bowl of oatmeal and practice ABCs with the 3 year old.

 

[ESRwannabe]

What Is Really Going On: Market Liquidity Worse Than During The Flash Crash; 4500 Crash Events; Constant Halts And Unhalts | Zero Hedge

 

[ESRwannabe]

Investors report problems with TD Ameritrade, Scottrade amid selloff

 

[papadad111]

What is IJS and IUSV ? I got into more VTI ... That's all .. So far.

 

[MichaelB]

I thought I had solid trade confirmations, then I checked the execution details and it shows share quantity as -1 for the two trades. One trade is broken into 4 different executions (which is normal) and each one has -1 for qty. Fingers crossed!

Check the positions tab on the Fidelity account. That will show how much they say you own.

 

[FUEGO]

Check the positions tab on the Fidelity account. That will show how much they say you own.

Everything points to me owning the $20k (now $25k) worth of IUSV and IJS. One trade confirmation now shows 100 shares in execution details, the other one still shows multiple executions with -1 share but the correct overall data. I'm feeling good about these sticking for a ~25% profit.

 

[FUEGO]

What is IJS and IUSV ? I got into more VTI ... That's all .. So far.

Ishares small cap value and ishares large cap value. Though if you can get them at a huge discount to FMV, who cares, right? They are somewhat illiquid, trading in the tens of thousands of shares each day. But wow, seeing $20-30 bid-ask spreads is CRAZY.

 

[FUEGO]

Fidelity was definitely out of commission for a while. I couldn't get my order screen to load at all, saying it was "temporarily unavailable". I also noticed on one trade, my bid was at $82 and the bid/ask displayed at Fidelity and elsewhere on real time quotes w/ bid/ask were at $78.xx and $81.xx. In other words I should have received an instant trade at $81.xx or at least moved the bid to $82. Bid sat there at $78.xx for a loooong time, maybe 5+ minutes before I quit paying attention. It eventually executed at $82.

From the news article shared by ESRwannabe, I see many ishares ETFs listed as having trading halts. Hopefully that won't be grounds for reversal for folks like me. I wasn't gutsy enough to arb out of one ETF into a similar ishares ETF in case they reversed one half of the trade later.

 

[MichaelB]

But wow, seeing $20-30 bid-ask spreads is CRAZY.

Exactly, and more so with VIG, which has much more liquidity, average daily volume is >600K. I thought the algorithms and market makers continuously bought and sold to arbitrage the differences between the ETFs and the underlying baskets of stock. I must have wasted 10 minutes this morning thinking it was a mistake before buying.