Roundabout Hate & Related investment Idea ?

[jazz4cash]

In MD we call the roundabout "circles" ["traffic calmers" are those horrid bumps that you have to walk your car over, and that I want to attack with a jackhammer] and they get mixed reviews. Small, single-lane circles cause few problems and are more popular than intersections with lights.

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I have seen some itty bitty circles here that are labeled traffic calmers too. They are generally only one lane. I think people generally prefer them to the horrid humps which tend to wear out rather quickly due to drivers that refuse to "walk" their cars over.

 

[Theseus]

I know Wisconsin is peppered with them now. My sister-in-law works at the 911 center and is a huge fan as there are minor accidents at intersections now but not the T-bone type that causes death or disability... so she claims they are MUCH safer.

Now of course nothing is safe if people don't understand how to use them...and I know that causes issues. I can hope that people will get use to them and it will settle down.

Just be glad you don't have J-hooks. I call them like death traps, they are forcing you to make a U turn on the highway..with no graceful entry lane, your just "on" the highway. See how tiny the turn area is in the lower left hand corner.. btw, its a 65mph highway.

Oh yeah, I recognize that one - first encountered it Sep 2014, and DW and myself both had a "What were they thinking?" moment. In a Greenville roundabout, about 25 miles to the southwest of that intersection my F150 met its demise March of 2015. Multilane & multiple approach design, ended up getting T-boned by a vehicle perhaps exceeding the posted limit (undeniably ignoring the posted 15 mph advisory) for the approach lane. Being a bit more attentive to the issues of roundabouts after that, there are a few oddities, at least for Wisconsin that I have noted. Legal right of way is granted to first vehicle entering, however speeding upon entry to an intersection denies one of any claim to right of way. As for accident reduction, a 2011 UW-Madison Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering study based on crash data from 24 intersections converted to roundabout design, and submitted to the WI DOT concludes a reduction in fatal/injury crashes of around 50%. However, total crashes did increase by about 15%, with a corresponding significant increase in property damage only crashes. So, there is data to support the perception of increased risk of a crash, but with reduced risk of bodily harm. I do suspect some of the injury reduction might be attributed to vehicle safety improvements over time, which may skew the "before-after" data to show an improvement not entirely due to the roundabouts themselves. At around $1.5 million a pop for roundabouts, that money could maintain miles of existing roadway - and now roadway maintenance and repair projects are being pushed off due to funding shortages. For that reason, and having been involved in a roundabout crash, I'm in the 'don't like them much' camp.

 

[Brat]

Portland, Oregon, has only three modern roundabouts. One at Lewis and Clark College (Terwilliger/Palater), one at Airport long term parking, and one at the end of Yacht Harbor Drive. Everything else is a neighborhood traffic circle. Portland hasn't built any new neighborhood traffic circles in over ten years.
Many people confuse other and older styles of circular intersections with modern roundabouts. East coast rotaries, large multi-lane traffic circles (Arc D’Triomphe, Dupont Circle), and small neighborhood traffic circles are not modern roundabouts. If you want to see the difference between a traffic circle, a rotary (UK roundabout) and a modern roundabout (UK continental roundabout), go to http://tinyurl.com/kstate-RAB to see pictures. And here’s another site that shows the difference between an older rotary and a modern roundabout: http://tinyurl.com/bzf7qmg

I agree that they are best described as neighborhood traffic circles. The lack of new neighborhood traffic circles may be the result of priorities of the powers that be in City hall. [grump, grump] The only real two lane roundabout in Portland, to my knowledge, would be at NE 39th & Glisan - which could hardly be described as modern.

 

[ownyourfuture]

It is so large that there is a church and the police station in the center.

That's not large, that's colossal

 

[ownyourfuture]

Thanks to all of you that have replied.
I never thought this would go 4 + pages.

My original post stating that Goodyear tires would be a good investment because of roundabouts, was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

My main goal was to express my disdain for roundabouts.
I totally understand the safety aspect. If there's an intersection where there's 10 deaths per year, yeah, I can see the need for a roundabout.

But in the case of the busiest one in Mankato Minnesota, I think I mentioned earlier there was one death in the previous 25 or 30 years. Well we'd all love to live in a utopian world where everybody has everything and nobody gets killed, but it's not realistic. One death in 25 or 30 years is not much.

I also stated that all the whining in the world by me is not gonna change a thing. The roundabouts are here, there's more coming & myself and fellow haters just have to except that.

“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.”

― Ernst F. Schumacher

 

[ScottRAB]

Not what is being built today

I grew up in a small town, 15,000 people with a major roundabout, which intersected four major highways, so eight entries. It is so large that there is a church and the police station in the center. Cars could be 3 wide at times, but 2 was normal. The only issues are when people hesitate entering the roundabout, and then the person behind rear ends them. Also, the occasional white hair driving the wrong way. Either way I love them. Our driving training included teaching us how to enter, travel, and exit them.

Had to be a traffic circle or rotary, not a modern roundabout.
If any of the entry lanes has a stop sign, it’s not a modern roundabout.
If you could play a game of football in the center landscaped area, it’s not a modern roundabout.
If the circular roadway has a stop sign, yield sign or signal, it’s not a modern roundabout.
If you don’t have to slow down to enter it, it’s not a modern roundabout.
If you have to change lanes in the circular roadway to exit, it’s not a modern roundabout.
If you can easily drive faster than 20 mph in the circular roadway, it’s not a modern roundabout.
If it has a park for pedestrians, or a building, in the middle, it’s not a modern roundabout.

 

[ScottRAB]

Not a modern roundabout

As with many other things, this is not universal. I drive into Hartford every weekday around Pulaski Circle. All the entrances must yield to traffic in the circle, except the people coming in on the Whitehead Highway (Exit 29A off of I-91), who have the right of way on entering. People in the circle regularly blow by the yield sign at that point and it is very dangerous.

I'm also very familiar with the traffic circle in Flemington NJ, where Rte. 31, Rte 12 and Rte 202 come together. The people entering the circle on Rte 202 always have the right of way over the people in the circle. The people entering on 12 and 31, however, must yield to traffic in the circle.

The intersections you are describing are traffic circles, aka rotaries, not modern roundabouts, which all have the same rules. Traffic circles and rotaries were abandoned by the US for safety reasons. The UK kept tinkering, reducing the size and adopting the yield on entry rule, to arrive at the modern roundabout the US has been building since 1990.

 

[ScottRAB]

In MD we call the roundabout "circles" ["traffic calmers" are those horrid bumps that you have to walk your car over, and that I want to attack with a jackhammer] and they get mixed reviews. Small, single-lane circles cause few problems and are more popular than intersections with lights.

As lanes and exit choices are added, however, it gets harder for drivers to know when to enter, and which lane to enter. It can be scary for a timid driver who wants a completely clear entrance, and is getting honked-at by impatient drivers behind him.
At least with a light, you always know what to do, even if some people don't always obey.

You know what to do at a stop light only because of the signs and lane markings. At a multi-lane modern roundabout, like any other multi-lane intersection, motorists should watch for the lane use signs that tell you which lane to be in based on where you want to go. Like other complex intersections, sometimes only the left lane can turn left, sometimes it can turn left and go through, and sometimes it can go left, through or right. With multi-lane roundabouts entering drivers should yield to all lanes approaching them and not change lanes inside the roundabout.

 

[ScottRAB]

Coe Circle is not a roundabout

I agree that they are best described as neighborhood traffic circles. The lack of new neighborhood traffic circles may be the result of priorities of the powers that be in City hall. [grump, grump] The only real two lane roundabout in Portland, to my knowledge, would be at NE 39th & Glisan - which could hardly be described as modern.

Chavez at Glisan is a traffic circle. Stop signs, smooth radial entry, bus stops inside the circular roadway, and the crowned circular roadway.
Neighborhood traffic circles in Portland cost about $15,000 each to construct and only affect speed for about 100 ft from the intersection. Speed bumps/humps and speed tables cost about $2200 each and can be arranged along the entire length of a street, spaced as needed to slow traffic as needed.

 

[ScottRAB]

My main goal was to express my disdain for roundabouts.
I totally understand the safety aspect. If there's an intersection where there's 10 deaths per year, yeah, I can see the need for a roundabout.

― Ernst F. Schumacher

Safety is the #1 reason they are built. #2 is efficiency. Modern, slow and go, roundabout intersections have less delay than a stop light or stop sign (http://tinyurl.com/mythbustersRAB), especially the other 20 hours a day people aren’t driving to or from work. Average daily delay at a signal is around 12 seconds per car. At a modern roundabout average delay is less than five seconds. Signals take an hour of demand and restrict it to a half hour, at best only half the traffic gets to go at any one time. At a modern roundabout four drivers entering from four directions can all enter at the same time. Don’t try that with a signalized intersection.
Delay = point source pollution as well.

 

[REWahoo]

Wow. Round and round we go, where our roundabout engineer will stop, nobody knows.

 

[RE2Boys]

Wow. Round and round we go, where our roundabout engineer will stop, nobody knows.

Guess this thread struck passionate feeling, for and against circular intersections....whatever name they go by.

After having lived in Europe for five years when young (1970s) and been exposed to all kinds of driving conditions and drivers, I much prefer a circular intersection where two lane roads meet. Hate my current cities reliance on four way stops and way too many traffic signals. Waste way too much time and fuel sitting at a traffic light for absolutely no reason except that it is there. Twenty hours a day there is little traffic to control. They exist not to control traffic but to slow speeders down.

 

[Jack_Pine]

Wow. Round and round we go, where our roundabout engineer will stop, nobody knows.

When I was fighting a roundabout near my home I found the engineering company had roundabout in their name. Somebody is making a lot of money on this concept.

 

[travelover]

...........Somebody is making a lot of money on this concept.

Perhaps, in a round about way.

 

[papadad111]

Record auto sales in USA this year and China car sales on the rebound.

Bodes well for Goodyear now but are we at the cycle peak ?

And .. Where does VW get their tires from ?

 

[braumeister]

With abject apologies to G&S:

It is the very model of a truly modern roundabout,
It’s traffic calming, speed reducing, quite low cost (or thereabout),
It’s circular and intersecting, impossible to reverse out,
It clarifies the right of way but still demands you all look out,
It makes you travel in a ways before you try to just flow out,
It increases traffic capacity or so say its defenders devout,
It is the very model of a truly modern roundabout.

 

[aja8888]

Record auto sales in USA this year and China car sales on the rebound.

Bodes well for Goodyear now but are we at the cycle peak ?

And .. Where does VW get their tires from ?

My new Passat has Continental tires. They also come with Hankook (Korean tires). No NOx tires....

 

[REWahoo]

With abject apologies to G&S:

It is the very model of a truly modern roundabout,
It’s traffic calming, speed reducing, quite low cost (or thereabout),
It’s circular and intersecting, impossible to reverse out,
It clarifies the right of way but still demands you all look out,
It makes you travel in a ways before you try to just flow out,
It increases traffic capacity or so say its defenders devout,
It is the very model of a truly modern roundabout.

 

[Jack_Pine]

I think it's time for Porky.

 

[Janet H]

We have a roundabout not too far from here that has it's own yelp listing: US 395 & 240 Double Roundabout - Transportation - US395 & SR 240 - Kennewick, WA - Reviews - Photos - Yelp

Locals call it the double dumba$$ dumbell and navigating it is a lot like being in a pinball machine, imo.

 

[jimbee]

Everything you wanted to know about roundabouts is here.

 

[folivier]

Here in southern Louisiana we're starting to see a few being built. For the most part I like them especially since there are some who at 4 way stops have to sit and wait until I come to a stop and only then will they start across the intersection. Glad I'm usually not in a hurry (guess this should be in the pet peeve section.)
Seriously though are some states replacing signal light intersections with roundabouts? Haven't seen that here yet. Mostly at 4 way stops.

 

[txtig]

Everything you wanted to know about roundabouts is here.

Jimbee - you must be as old as me if you remember that song. I've still got the album sitting in my collection of LP's (that I never play). Bought it when I graduated from high school in 1971. But, not sure I learned anything about roundabouts even after listening to the album countless times.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[Gumby]

The intersections you are describing are traffic circles, aka rotaries, not modern roundabouts, which all have the same rules. Traffic circles and rotaries were abandoned by the US for safety reasons. The UK kept tinkering, reducing the size and adopting the yield on entry rule, to arrive at the modern roundabout the US has been building since 1990.

It is my impression that the majority of the people who have posted on this thread understood the initial post to refer to rotaries, circles and roundabouts interchangeably and have commented in light of that understanding. You want to narrow the definition to exclude the ones that don't conform to your own preferences. The 'No True Scotsman' fallacy comes to mind.

 

[ScottRAB]

You want to narrow the definition to exclude the ones that don't conform to your own preferences.

I didn't create the definitions, they are not personal.
The FHWA, the Transportation Research Board, and Institute of Transportation Engineers are the governing/advisory groups for roadway design and modern roundabouts are as distinct a subset of circular roadways as roses are a subset of flowers.

The FHWA has a video about modern roundabouts on Youtube.

MUTCD graphics Chapter 3C - MUTCD 2009 Edition - FHWA