Driving RV to Baja

[haha]

There are also questions about reporting accuracies, both in Mexico and the U.S.

Damn little reasonable question about murder stats in the US.

Ha

 

[haha]

So if someone lives their life worrying about 1 in ~5MM possibilities, then they really should stay home. And I'd wager they already do.

You seem to specialize in red herrings. From whence the need to sell Mexico?

I understand that a cheap travel blogger, or someone who can have a much more luxe lifestyle in retirement in Mexico than he could afford in the US has a dog in the fight, so to speak.

But it is highly unlikely that the US government travel warnings are biased against the states south of our border. After all, those governments are always leaning on ours to avoid upsetting the apple cart.

It is also highly unlikely that a prospective American traveler has no opportunities other than Mexico, unless he is interested in pre-Columbian art and architecture. So if someone looks at the issues and decides, "I think I'll take the family to Hawaii instead", is it reasonable to depict this person as hiding under a chair? Not unless one has a need to bolster a personally important position.

Ha

 

[Gone4Good]

You seem to specialize in red herrings. From whence the need to sell Mexico?

I understand that a cheap travel blogger, or someone who can have a much more luxe lifestyle in retirement in Mexico than he could afford in the US has a dog in the fight, so to speak.

But it is highly unlikely that the US government travel warnings are biased against the states south of our border. After all, those governments are always leaning on ours to avoid upsetting the apple cart.

It is also highly unlikely that a prospective American traveler has no opportunities other than Mexico, unless he is interested in pre-Columbian art and architecture. So if someone looks at the issues and decides, "I think I'll take the family to Hawaii instead", is it reasonable to depict this person as hiding under a chair? Not unless one has a need to bolster a personally important position.

Ha

Wow, talk about specializing in red herrings and a bunch of strawmen too? Let me count the ways:

1) "From whence to sell Mexico" - no one is selling Mexico. I admit to getting annoyed when people who admittedly have zero experience in a country say terrible things about it. I'd defend other places the same way. Nothing special about Mexico in that regard.

2) "I understand that a cheap travel blogger . . . " You don't know me. I don't live in Mexico. In a few days I'll be heading back "home" to New York City, thank you very much. And I have no dog in this fight other than pushing back against a bunch of ugly stereotypes.

3) "It is highly unlikely that the US government travel warnings are biased against the states south of our border." Who said anything about bias? I think I was pretty clear in stating my view that the U.S. travel warnings are insanely conservative to the point of being almost useless. I even posted the ridiculous warning about France as an illustration of that fact. I never said, or implied, that they were biased.

4) "So if someone looks at the issues and decides, "I think I'll take the family to Hawaii instead . . ." Is that even the argument here? No one has said anyone has to go to Mexico. On the other hand the OP asked about visiting Mexico and people here responded by comparing it to a war zone and the inside of a volcano. Why does it bother you when someone says those characterizations are untrue?

5) "Not unless one has a need to bolster a personally important position." Back at you. Why do you care that the stereotype of Mexico as some lawless hellhole goes unchallenged?

 

[Nemo2]

My only point was that the U.S. travel warnings are insanely conservative.

Somewhat similar to the warnings about "Containing Hot Liquids" currently printed on takeout coffee cups, (following that ridiculous (and successful) lawsuit where a woman spilled some on herself and then sued McDonalds, or some other outfit); if the travel warnings weren't so conservative it's a given that someone, or countless someones, would scream "But you said...(or didn't say)" if something/anything happened to them.

 

[haha]

You totally fooled me about not selling Mexico. So sorry, I just couldn't imagine what else you were doing.

There has to be a reason why our Southwest is host to many Mexicans, from poor laborers to billionaires. And some of them say that are leaving, /have left Mexico because of danger and fears for their personal safety and that of their families.

But I'll go with your testimony, since you claim to have no personal or financial reason for it, blog notwithstanding.

 

[Gone4Good]

Somewhat similar to the warnings about "Containing Hot Liquids" currently printed on takeout coffee cups . . If the travel warnings weren't so conservative it's a given that someone, or countless someones, would scream "But you said...(or didn't say)" if something/anything happened to them.

I completely agree.

But here's the thing about those warnings. No one who wants a cup of coffee ever decided not to buy one because of the ridiculous caution label on the cup. That's not true with travel, though. Plenty of people get scared off of travel because the State Department says things like terrorists are targeting France.

And then when those same people come to internet forums like this one asking for advice they hear much worse from a bunch of people who have no interest in, or experience with, the destination in question but nonetheless have very strong opinions about why other people shouldn't visit.

Travel is scary enough for most folks. What they need is accurate and relevant information to help them make an informed decision about where and how to travel. C.Y.A. travel advisories don't really do that. They just discourage people from traveling. As do comments like peppering this thread.

P.S. If I have a "dog in this fight" that pretty much sums it up.

 

[travelover]

Somewhat similar to the warnings about "Containing Hot Liquids" currently printed on takeout coffee cups, (following that ridiculous (and successful) lawsuit where a woman spilled some on herself and then sued McDonalds, or some other outfit)......

As long as we are full thread drift argumentative mode.........

It was not a ridiculous case. The Actual Facts about the Mcdonalds' Coffee Case

After receiving the order, the grandson pulled his car forward and stopped momentarily so that Liebeck could add cream and sugar to her coffee. (Critics of civil justice, who have pounced on this case, often charge that Liebeck was driving the car or that the vehicle was in motion when she spilled the coffee; neither is true.) Liebeck placed the cup between her knees and attempted to remove the plastic lid from the cup. As she removed the lid, the entire contents of the cup spilled into her lap.
The sweatpants Liebeck was wearing absorbed the coffee and held it next to her skin. A vascular surgeon determined that Liebeck suffered full thickness burns (or third-degree burns) over 6 percent of her body, including her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, and genital and groin areas. She was hospitalized for eight days, during which time she underwent skin grafting. Liebeck, who also underwent debridement treatments, sought to settle her claim for $20,000, but McDonalds refused.

 

[Gone4Good]

But I'll go with your testimony, since you claim to have no personal or financial reason for it, blog notwithstanding.

Seeing as how you want to make this very personal, I'll play along . . . I haven't made any effort to monetize my blog. You won't find any advertisements, sponsored posts, or advertorials on my site. I don't accept or solicit free trips, products, or excursions and have no relationships with any tourism bureau or agency of any kind. I do have a couple of affiliate links to products I use and recommend and have sold some photography on an unsolicited basis, but that's it. You'll find at least as many posts about products I've tried and hated.

The blog is mostly just a hobby that gives me a reason to think about the places I've been and reflect on what makes each one unique.

 

[Nemo2]

As long as we are full thread drift argumentative mode.........

It was not a ridiculous case. The Actual Facts about the Mcdonalds' Coffee Case

Me...when I make fresh coffee, I pour it out of the carafe into my cup....then I nuke it.

I like my coffee hot. I expect my coffee to be hot.

 

[tfudtuckerpucker]

We can discuss it, but it would be meaningless without some sort of actual, verifiable numbers. Do you have any?

Nope, just the comment from my friend from Mexico. Based on his advice, plus the state department's warning, I personally will probably not drive into Mexico. You are free to have a different opinion and to choose otherwise.

Oh, here's an excerpt from the warning.

Carjacking and highway robbery are serious problems in many parts of the border region, and U.S. citizens have been murdered in such incidents. Most victims who complied with carjackers' demands have reported that they were not physically harmed.

 

[dixonge]

Damn little reasonable question about murder stats in the US.

Ha

Yet law enforcement reporting of these stats to the FBI is *voluntary*...

 

[dixonge]

You totally fooled me about not selling Mexico. So sorry, I just couldn't imagine what else you were doing.

There has to be a reason why our Southwest is host to many Mexicans, from poor laborers to billionaires. And some of them say that are leaving, /have left Mexico because of danger and fears for their personal safety and that of their families.

But I'll go with your testimony, since you claim to have no personal or financial reason for it, blog notwithstanding.

I can't speak for Brian, but I'll agree with his assessment of Mexico 100%. Our travel blog is dormant and contains no ads or affiliate links, or ebooks. When we move back to Mexico late next year, it will be a pension-funded retirement. I'm not selling Mexico any more than he is, but your accusations seem rather silly...

There are other factors at play in our cross-border cultures. First, don't forget that this entire area used to *be* Mexico, so there's that. Second, more Mexicans are *leaving* the US than coming, a multi-year trend. Source: More Mexicans Leaving Than Coming to the U.S. Third, yes, I've met those who have either left Mexico or altered travel methods due to the violence there. Many of my Mexican-American co-workers look at me wide-eyed when I tell them I spent most of the last three years there. They are just as susceptible to the fear hype as most Americans. We've never felt unsafe there, from Playa del Carmen to Tequila, from Guanajuato to Acapulco.

 

[dixonge]

Oh, here's an excerpt from the warning.

Carjacking and highway robbery are serious problems in many parts of the border region, and U.S. citizens have been murdered in such incidents. Most victims who complied with carjackers' demands have reported that they were not physically harmed.

As I stated previously, that's why they make jets! I think the border has many areas where the risk is greater than my comfort level.

 

[Gone4Good]

but your accusations seem rather silly...

It's always easier to malign someone's character than actually engage with (or, in this case, apparently even bother to read) their arguments.

 

[MichaelB]

More ruffled feathers that damaged reputations, it seems to me, and apologies have been extended. Everyone can take a step back and get on with the thread .. that is, the part about the RV trip to Baja.

 

[OrcasIslandBound]

I'm not going to Mexico because of the two times we actually did have guns pointed at us.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[OrcasIslandBound]

And I used to love it down there. The Baja is gorgeous both above the water and the scuba diving was gorgeous below the water line.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[Travelwanted]

A rather interesting thread. In spite of the ruffled feathers it was an interesting discussion. I won't add my 2 cents to stir the pot but have travelled to mexico on a few trips.

The interesting thing is we have facts and statistics but we also have life experiences. Two people can visit the same place, do the same things and yet walk away with completely different opinions.

 

[kitesurfer2]

i have not been around the world, but i have been to a lot of places both overseas and in US. I won't get into a pissin contest with people who 'think', but do not' know'.

My plan was to ride my motorcycle down into Mexico for 'some' days, and flying my wife in. However, plans change and i bought a different style motorcycle and i fear it may not be a good ride for Mexico. However, i still want to go but now i want to fly in with my wife and stay a least one week. No cruise ship ports or big Americanized cities is my goal.

if i could get a suggestion for the 'flying' and the 'cities' from people who 'know', that would be nice.

 

[Nemo2]

if i could get a suggestion for the 'flying' and the 'cities' from people who 'know', that would be nice.

Can't say that I 'know', but about 5 years back we went to Puerto Escondido and stayed at a beach hotel primarily frequented by Mexicans (who, in the main, drove down from Mexico City); mostly families, kids were well behaved, food was good (in our humble opinion)........but things may have changed.

http://1drv.ms/1UMGTqg

 

[audreyh1]

I live along the Mexican border, and I won't drive across the border since about 2006. Flying is another matter - there are a few places in Mexico I would consider flying to. There is one town on our border I would consider walking across the border to visit. Yes, you can't rely on Mexican law enforcement - that's always been true.

In some of the tourist areas such as Cozumel I am much more concerned about their lack of secure ATM machines - you are very likely to have your card data stolen.

I visited Baja California over a decade ago by small boat, making several stops along the coast, and it was fabulous. I understand why someone would want to take their RV there - it was quite the popular destination and we saw many People RV camping along the coast. I wouldn't drive today, but I'd still visit by boat or air.

I spent three weeks in France last year including time in Paris. I don't see any difference between the terrorism threat in the EU and what I am already living with in the U.S.. France seems to have a higher viligance than other EU countries, but the others seem to be stepping up their game.

I'll still take Thalys high speed train from Paris to Amsterdam or back, even though there was an incident two weeks after we used it last year.

 

[Olbidness]

I've read the travel blogs of RVers that have traveled to Baja Mexico and I've found it rather appealing. The cheap cost of living and good fishing would be the major draws for me. The people I followed were in informal convoys, only traveled the main roads and only during daylight hours. I guess I'll weigh the risk/reward if or when the time comes.

I'm concerned about Mexico not using ultra low sulfur diesel and how that might harm a modern diesel engine. Hopefully when/if I ever decide to go that will be sorted out.

 

[dixonge]

However, i still want to go but now i want to fly in with my wife and stay a least one week. No cruise ship ports or big Americanized cities is my goal.

if i could get a suggestion for the 'flying' and the 'cities' from people who 'know', that would be nice.

Fly into Guadalajara, then taxi down to Lake Chapala. You won't even go through the city of Guadalajara to get there. Lots of expats in Ajijic. Many Mexicans from Guadalajara go here for weekend relaxing. Year-round balmy climate.

Fly into Leon and take a bus to Guanajuato or San Miguel de Allende. The bus ride will be more luxurious than your flight. Guanajuato is a college town with amazing views and touristy things to do. San Miguel is an expat town with lots of art and shopping.

Fly into Puebla. Beautiful old colonial city. Have not been, but it is on our to-do list.

Fly into Tuxtla-Gutierrez via Mexico City. Bus to San Cristobal de las Casas (45 minute ride). Cloud forest above 7000 feet. Much cooler than the surrounding area. Colonial city. Beautiful. Plenty of restaurants and shopping. Tons of indigenous people. Tourists from mainly Mexico City and Europe. The Pope stopped by recently.

 

[Gone4Good]

if i could get a suggestion for the 'flying' and the 'cities' from people who 'know', that would be nice.

Partly it depends on what you're looking for.

If you're into museums and enjoy the kinds of things big cities have to offer, Mexico City (a.k.a. DF) is hard to beat. You can easily spend a busy week in the Centro Historico exploring everything there is to do in that area. And you can spend another week exploring further afield (DF is huge) - we know because we did just that and after 12 days in DF we still left some things we wanted to do undone.

If you want a more laid back and beautiful Spanish colonial town our recommendation is Queretaro - its the best of the bunch we visited. But in a week you can easily do a loop that includes San Miguel de Allende, Guanajuato, and Queretaro. They're all pretty and they're all different and they're all an easy bus ride from DF and from each other.

If you're looking for pre-Hispanic ruins, you might fly into and base yourself in Merida where you can do tons of day trips or multi-day trips along the Ruta Puuc. Uxmal is the best Mayan ruin we've seen anywhere including Tikal in Guatemala. Best of all, it doesn't get that many visitors because it's far enough away from the coast that it doesn't get any cruise ship crowds (unlike Chichen Itza). From Merida you can also day trip to beaches, see flamingos, and visit smaller towns like Izamal.

It's a big country. There's lots to do.

 

[kcowan]

In my experience, having spent 5-6 months a year in Mexico since 2007, I think most people who come here are more adventurous by nature, so warnings by governments are taken like a grain of sand.

The biggest problem we have faced this year is the high surf (from the Fiji cyclone) eroding the sand from the beaches.

But there are plenty of tourists here who prefer not to interact with local culture. They go to all inclusive places where there is little need to go off the property. Others buy in walled communities for personal safety. (Many of them would also do that at home.)

A few years ago I talked to a Seattle couple who had gone to Hawaii for 3 years because of the warnings, then returned here to discover that safety had not changed. They felt that their government had misled them.

My wife has a girlfriend who came here for 3 years and now has hooked up with a guy who will not come. They now go to Hawaii. I love Hawaii but it is more expensive and definitely more American. Another gal used to come every year with her husband. He died and now her new guy will not come so she comes down on her own every year.

I also know a couple who haul their 5th wheeler down from Abbotsford BC all the way to Pto Escondido every year. Not for us but they sure see a lot of the country.