Call for boycott of VG

[teejayevans]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/17/stu...rd-and-blackrock-over-gunmaker-ownership.html

I believe every index fund probably owns gunmakers, food corporations that kill animals, oil companies, etc.
So I really don’t want index funds watered down for every political viewpoint...

 

[dtbach]

I don't think there will be a wave of redemption's from VG over this.

 

[38Chevy454]

*****refraining from getting too political*****

This kid is in way over his head. I'll just say he is a useful idiot.

 

[Svensk Anga]

What I want is an index fund consisting of all the companies rejected by the socially concious investing crowd. Think tobacco (isn't Altria like the best stock over the last 40 years?), alcohol, guns, fossil fuels, casinos. That is, the makers of stuff that people buy.

 

[braumeister]

Being a kid, he probably just doesn't realize that there are a myriad of "socially responsible" funds and ETFs so everyone can slice and dice to fit their individual proclivities. Hardly newsworthy.

 

[easysurfer]

I have no comment.

 

[HFWR]

*****refraining from getting too political*****

This kid is in way over his head. I'll just say he is a useful idiot.

Whether it floats anyone’s boat or not, it’s economic pressure, not political...

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

Sigh.

 

[jazz4cash]

What I want is an index fund consisting of all the companies rejected by the socially concious investing crowd. Think tobacco (isn't Altria like the best stock over the last 40 years?), alcohol, guns, fossil fuels, casinos. That is, the makers of stuff that people buy.

You mean like this?
http://www.morningstar.com/funds/xnas/vicex/quote.html

 

[Z3Dreamer]

VICEX appears to be a good start, but it leaves out many sins. What about unhealthy foods, irresponsible environmental activities and repressive regimes?

 

[SheitlQueen]

*****refraining from getting too political*****

This kid is in way over his head. I'll just say he is a useful idiot.

I agree. These kids are being used as political pawns.
I don't know why VG or any other business would give a hoot what they think.
Stick to your guns (literally) VG!

 

[Gumby]

Regardless of the merits of this particular issue, I have always wondered about the efficacy of such a boycott. It seems to me that once a company issues stock in the primary market, it is largely indifferent to trading on the subsequent secondary market (unless it is Enron), as it has received the proceeds of its issuance. If the protesters are successful and Vanguard does not own the boycotted stock, someone else will. The trading effects thus will be felt by the traders in the secondary market, but not by the "bad" company who originally issued the stock. I am uncertain what those who support such a boycott ever hope to accomplish.

 

[cooch96]

What about caffeine? I still wonder why caffeine isn’t included in the BATFE luxury sins.

 

[SheitlQueen]

Regardless of the merits of this particular issue, I have always wondered about the efficacy of such a boycott. It seems to me that once a company issues stock in the primary market, it is largely indifferent to trading on the subsequent secondary market (unless it is Enron), as it has received the proceeds of its issuance. If the protesters are successful and Vanguard does not own the boycotted stock, someone else will. The trading effects thus will be felt by the traders in the secondary market, but not by the "bad" company who originally issued the stock. I am uncertain what those who support such a boycott ever hope to accomplish.

Not only that, but the ones who support that which the original protesters do not will start their own counter protest. VG can't win no matter which side it takes. Which is why I think companies should stay neutral and not bow to pressure from protesters from either side.

 

[marko]

While I'm sympathetic to the intent, IMO this is the dark side of a cause.

Like people, causes get 15 minutes of fame and then "the next big event" comes to the forefront and your cause becomes yesterday's news. Then you need to do something to reset that 15 minute clock. Hence today's announcement.

He may mean well, but this looks like he's grasping at straws and in the long term may damage the cause by looking either painfully naive or create the appearance of trying to build a brand for his own gain.

 

[RobbieB]

I plan to continue my boycott of Vanguard forever.

But that changes nothing as I never had an account anyway -

 

[Texas Proud]

VICEX appears to be a good start, but it leaves out many sins. What about unhealthy foods, irresponsible environmental activities and repressive regimes?

Heck, what is left to invest into?

 

[HFWR]

I agree. These kids are being used as political pawns.

I don't know why VG or any other business would give a hoot what they think.

Stick to your guns (literally) VG!

And there are no pawns on the other side, right? No big money? No organized “machine”? Really...

I’m a gun owner, and the NRA and other shrill voices do not speak for me. And, frankly, insulting teenagers, and sounding like a bunch of angry guys with guns, isn’t likely to elicit the “responsible gun owner” thingy...

As for the boycott, if there is one, it’s unlikely to have any effect.

 

[jazz4cash]

I admire these young folks for the most part, but this makes the pawn comment seem valid and makes me wonder if they even understand what VG and BR do, esp VG.

 

[audreyh1]

Regardless of the merits of this particular issue, I have always wondered about the efficacy of such a boycott. It seems to me that once a company issues stock in the primary market, it is largely indifferent to trading on the subsequent secondary market (unless it is Enron), as it has received the proceeds of its issuance. If the protesters are successful and Vanguard does not own the boycotted stock, someone else will. The trading effects thus will be felt by the traders in the secondary market, but not by the "bad" company who originally issued the stock. I am uncertain what those who support such a boycott ever hope to accomplish.

Right - the company is not getting your money when you buy shares unless it’s a public offering.

However, the top corporate management is usually heavily compensated in stock options and very sensitive to price so pressure on stock prices will have an impact.

But boycotting VG isn’t going to accomplish that I would think. Get them to dump their shares?

 

[donheff]

I'm moving my funds from a VG total market index to a Fidelity total market index. That will hit the gun makers where they live.

 

[dixonge]

While I think boycotts like this have little direct effect, they can have more of an impact in the long run. They are like a slow-burning negative PR campaign. I believe the fossil fuel divestment campaign is a good example of this. It certainly hasn't taken down any companies, but it has helped foster a negative sentiment toward them. Hundreds of funds have begun divestment.

These kids sure have a lot of PR folks hopping, trying to distance themselves from the NRA. Whether it results in lasting change remains to be seen.

 

[Mdlerth]

Lincoln and Spanky understood

You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time.

(But you can't fool Mom.)

 

[Maenad]

I sympathize with his aims, but it is literally impossible to invest in a way that is completely "socially responsible" or "aligns with [insert values here]".

Find me a company that's led by a management team that isn't biased (or that is biased in a way that you approve of), that provides products or services that are an unmitigated good (good luck defining that), that doesn't produce excess waste (also good luck defining that), that treats all of its employees really well (ditto), and ensures their suppliers do too.

I won't hold my breath.

Companies are composed of people, and these people make anywhere from hundreds to millions of decisions every day. Some of them are going to be strongly disagreed with by a large number of people. I don't see any way around that.

That's not to say that cultural change can't happen. It does, but it needs to be grassroots. Convince people to stop buying guns, and then gun manufacturers are no longer big enough to be in the S&P 500, and they're off the index. But that's a lot harder than calling for a boycott, which feels like you're doing something, even when you're not.

He's a kid that went through something horrific, and he wants to change things so that can't happen to anyone else. This is laudable. Boycotting VG isn't going to do that.

 

[MRG]

I've been impressed with him however, IMO, this is over the top. Why? These organizations are pretty diverse. I looked to overweight firearms during the last administration and other then a couple companies there's not any pure play.

I really wanted to invest in 1911 manufacturing during the 2009-2011 run up to the 100 year anniversary. Those shops had a couple of year backlog, but they're all private companies, or 1911s were a tiny fraction of their business.