National Debt

[Cut-Throat]

I’ve found this to be very interesting regarding national debt numbers.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

A little difficult to read, but take some time with it and it makes sense.

I have seen this before.... I looked at the Payroll Tax Revenue number (Which I'm guessing is the S.S. Trust Fund number) -- At any rate it shows it to be around $1.2 Trillion --- The number is actually well over $2.5 Trillion.


Can you explain this?

 

[Independent]

I have seen this before.... I looked at the Payroll Tax Revenue number (Which I'm guessing is the S.S. Trust Fund number) -- At any rate it shows it to be around $1.2 Trillion --- The number is actually well over $2.5 Trillion.


Can you explain this?

My annual income is not the same as my 401k balance. For SS, one year's tax revenue is different from the accumulated past surpluses.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/TR/2018/II_B_cyoper.html#94983

Also, payroll taxes aren't just SS. The other large piece is Medicare.
Page 11 here: https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statis...eports/ReportsTrustFunds/downloads/tr2018.pdf

(I don't actually get the clock. Their numbers look like annual totals, but they keep changing.)

 

[Cut-Throat]

My annual income is not the same as my 401k balance. For SS, one year's tax revenue is different from the accumulated past surpluses.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/TR/2018/II_B_cyoper.html#94983

Also, payroll taxes aren't just SS. The other large piece is Medicare.
Page 11 here: https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statis...eports/ReportsTrustFunds/downloads/tr2018.pdf

(I don't actually get the clock. Their numbers look like annual totals, but they keep changing.)

Well, that is what I don't quite get either. The National Debt is definitely not an annual total, but a cumulative one. -- Over $22 Trillion... So, I was hoping to see a SS Bucket that reflected the cumulative surplus.

 

[imoldernu]

A very, very difficult subject to understand.
I'm quite sure the thread will be shut down, and that's ok, because it will necessarily become political. but the subject IS important, and some recent extensive news articles, delve into the numbers with more clarity than has been the case in the past. We all owe it to ourselves and those who matter to us to understand as much as possible.

It doesn't matter to jeanie and I, personally, as the catch up won't be in our lifetime, but we care about what our kids will be facing.

 

[Lancelot]

Ok, then let's look at the #1 nation in terms of debt/gdp...Japan. They've gone so far into debt (238%), that they've been in a permanent recession for 20+ years. That's not the whole story there, of course, but they do have complete control of their currency.

Guess my point is that as the debt increases to multiples of the GDP, the interest payments rise, and we'll have to increase taxes significantly to pay the debt, which will be a major drag on the economy, unless we default/devalue the debt, which, in my current understanding, is not allowed.

Yes Japan is deeply indebt; from what I've read most of their national debt is held by the Japanese themselves. I noticed Japanese living in Thailand, probably for the lower cost of living. IMHO, an aging Japan is more of a problem than their national debt.


The first shot across the US bow, with respect to debt, was countries demanding gold when they repatriated US dollars in the late 60s. Nixon saw the writing on the wall and took the US off the gold standard. I felt the joy of that first hand, my dollars went from purchasing four Deutsch marks to three, then two ish. Beer became way more expensive on GI pay

As others have pointed out, there is not much I can personally do about it. How long will the party go on? As long as foreigners are willing to accept greenbacks The US economy is robust so it can take a relatively long time to unwind. I don't see things changing form a US policy perspective, because they don't have to- yet.