Poll: Legalize it?

[jambo101]

I'm sure most kids if asked why they smoke pot would answer by saying its easier to get than alcohol..I wonder how much per year its costing us taxpayers to fight this supposed war on drugs,whatever the cost the 40yr crusade isnt working if its still possible for my kids to get pot in their highschool easier than cigarettes or booze.Lets try legalizing the stuff and put a lot of saved money into something usefull.

 

[donheff]

I don't think the "tax the hell out of it" is going to work. Much too easy to grow at home. Booze, especially hard liquor, presents some challenges to home brew requiring stills and a bunch of know-how. Even then, the feds have to roam the hills to keep homebrewers out of business. Grass only requires a grow lamp and a little space indoors or a small plot if you're a home owner. No one would buy commercial grass if it was made expensive by taxes.

It is legal to home brew beer and wine but not many people do it. It is "legal" to grow marijuana in California with a prescription but users still flock to the "medical" stores. We tax cigarettes and there is a black market (mentioned in a previous post) but that traffic doesn't dominate the market. A legal marijuana market would probably deliver a decent tax revenue stream but not enough to solve many of our problems. The only thing it would help is law enforcement and prisons - and of course the people caught up in the enforcement effort.

 

[donheff]

Here is an interesting article about Portugal's decriminalization by Glenn Greenwald (yes, yes, whacky lefty, but he cites good sources including Scientific American). In a nutshell - Portugal was suffering a drug crisis in the 90s, decriminalized all recreational drugs in 2001, use in every drug catagory has declined while use has gone up elsewhere in the EU. Even opponents of decriminalization acknowledge the success of Portugal's program.

 

[ziggy29]

I don't think the "tax the hell out of it" is going to work. Much too easy to grow at home.

It works for tobacco...

 

[harley]

hmmm... let me think about what my position on this should be.

It's so easy to get now that legalizing wouldn't make it that much more available. Currently millions of people use it regularly without any problems. It would be nice if the imbibers didn't have to be afraid of prison, job loss, and asset confiscation just because they wanted to mellow out at a blues festival or movie. Obviously responsibility for your actions would be required whether high, drunk, sober, or stupid. The actions are what matter, not the excuse.

My main reason for legalizing would be to decrease the crime and violence aspect of it all. I think legalizing would work better than decriminalizing for that. I know Dex thinks the other drugs would keep the crime high, but there's a much smaller market for them, and I think there would be a significant decrease in crime just due to the market share.

As for the tax basis. Decrim would allow the sellers to pay taxes on their profits, but would still keep it a "grey market". Legal would be better.

Just an aside on the Salvia issue. It's a mediocre drug, short lived buzz, not much fun. The states getting involved in outlawing it are creating a situation where the kids are going to try it. "If it's illegal, it must be fun!" I can flat out guarantee that if pot was legal or decriminalized NOBODY would be smoking Salvia. It's just not that good. It's like bathtub gin. Nobody kept drinking it once prohibition was over.

 

[ls99]

Legalize it, tax it, sell it it in the supermarkets. Treat it in DUI and workplace same as booze.

Never used the stuff, though in Alaska once was paid for some marine radio and radar repairs with a shopping bag full of sensamille (spelling?). Which I then traded traded for stuff I needed.

 

[youbet]

It works for tobacco...

There's really no comparison there Zig. Growing and processing a year's supply of tobacco for a smoker would be a big job to take on. Impossible inside your home. A lot of space necessary if done outdoors. A year's supply of grass for a casual user....... no problem indoors or out.

Sure, the gov't could add a tax to packs of joints sold across the counter. I'm just saying that if they made the tax too high (I think "tax the hell out of it" was mentioned), it would be easy for folks to grow their own. Much, much easier than growing tobacco or distilling hard liquor.

 

[youbet]

A legal marijuana market would probably deliver a decent tax revenue stream but not enough to solve many of our problems.

It might. I'm just suggesting that growing marijuana is so easy, indoors or out, that if the gov't tried to levy a high tax on it, many would grow their own. The more ambitious would probably pop an extra plant or eight in the garden to be sure friends and relatives had plenty if their crop should have some issue.

Replacing drug enforcement police arresting users with revenue agents arresting growers would simply be jumping out of the skillet into the fire.

I say legalize it, but don't count on being able to levy a high tax rate unless you're willing to enact a bunch of laws to regulate home growers and hire zillions of gov't thugs to enforce them.

 

[youbet]

Age Limits?

So, for you folks advocating legalization, would you advocate no age limits, same age limits as tobacco or same age limits as booze? Should the age limits be state or fed?

Tobacco age limits are age requirements for purchasing tobacco. Is that how it should work for grass? Home grown stuff could be smoked by folks of any age since they don't have to buy it? But to buy it across the counter, you'd have to be 18.

Again, I'm for legalization. But I think there is going to be a whole lot less control, regarding either taxation or usage, than there is for booze. I think taxation will be there but harder to enforce than for tobacco. I think usage control will be similar to tobacco. You'll get carded if you go to buy marijuana cigs retail but no one will be checking on usage.

EDIT: Also makes me wonder about smoking laws. I can sit at my table in a fine restaurant and get tanked on $50/bottle wine. But pull out a reefer (the marijuana for which I grew myself at home) and light up and I'm asked to step outdoors to puff?

Lotsa interesting questions, huh?

 

[MichaelB]

I vote yea to decriminalize the use and license the production. Additional tax revenues may help more or less but probably will be just enough to pay the cost of the new federal department needed to oversee. Man, would that be a popular place to work...

Even if the revenue doesn't meet expectations, once marijuana is generally available and frequently used, I bet lots of folks won't care so much.

To all those good folks that think further testing is called for, I volunteer.

 

[Frugality_of_Apathy]

I vote yea to decriminalize the use and license the production. Additional tax revenues may help more or less but probably will be just enough to pay the cost of the new federal department needed to oversee.

You can't tax it if it's decriminalized, just if it's legalized.

What tax are you going to be able to levee if you still aren't allowed to buy it?

 

[brewer12345]

Lets not forget the huge demand for instant gratification in our society. Hmmm, I can either drop $10 on a pack of wacky tabacky cigs including $5 of tax, or I can get some seeds, sow them, wait for them to grow, harvest, dry them and then smoke up in, oh, 6 months. Which option do you think 99% of the population would choose if they wanted to toke up?

As for smoking laws, smoke is smoke. If you want to get high at a restaurant, order the pot brownie a la mode for dessert.

 

[Khan]

Lets not forget the huge demand for instant gratification in our society. Hmmm, I can either drop $10 on a pack of wacky tabacky cigs including $5 of tax, or I can get some seeds, sow them, wait for them to grow, harvest, dry them and then smoke up in, oh, 6 months. Which option do you think 99% of the population would choose if they wanted to toke up?

As for smoking laws, smoke is smoke. If you want to get high at a restaurant, order the pot brownie a la mode for dessert.

Create and satisfy the munchies at the same time.

 

[slouch]

A year's supply of grass for a casual user....... no problem indoors or out.

Go read one of Ed Rosenthal's books and tell me that again with a straight face. O0

P.S., legality aside, home growers can't grow in dense urban environments without seriously bothering their neighbors - the stuff smells - try to imagine just 1 little plant yielding 3 pounds of the stuff.

 

[donheff]

P.S., legality aside, home growers can't grow in dense urban environments without seriously bothering their neighbors - the stuff smells - try to imagine just 1 little plant yielding 3 pounds of the stuff.

I had a friend in the 70s who had a foil lined closet with grow lights and a half dozen sensimilla plants and I don't remember any problem with smell. Or maybe that's the answer - I don't remember Today, police would be spending our taxpayer dollars to track him down with infrared sensors and sophisticated analysis of power usage. What a waste of effort.

 

[MichaelB]

You can't tax it if it's decriminalized, just if it's legalized.

Decriminalization is not to tax, it's to stop prosecuting users.

What tax are you going to be able to levee if you still aren't allowed to buy it?

That's what I meant by "license the production". Like alcohol and tobacco, the tax is on the production, not the consumption.

 

[Frugality_of_Apathy]

Decriminalization is not to tax, it's to stop prosecuting users.

That's what I meant by "license the production". Like alcohol and tobacco, the tax is on the production, not the consumption.

I think you've just got the terms mixed up. Decriminalization means not criminally prosecuting the users of the product but instead making it a civil offense. This would not allow people to legally sell the product and so how can you license production of a product but then not allow them to sell it?

Legalization means everything from mandating everyone use it to treating it like an over the counter drug with heavy taxes and limits as to who and how much someone can buy.

 

[guest]

Tax dollars and jail space....we have our jails full of people who's only crime was against themselves (possesion) and our government spends billions trying to find all those who do possess. Enough!

Our local prosecutor just tried to send a local grower/user (he had a medical prescription) to jail. They spent a ton on this trial and finally they ruled it was his right. The story headline right next to this was surely about budget shortfalls and service cuts!

It is a no brainer......uh.....now.... what were we talking about? I'm hungry!

 

[youbet]

Tax dollars and jail space....we have our jails full of people who's only crime was against themselves (possesion) and our government spends billions trying to find all those who do possess. Enough!

Again, I'm for legalization. But in regard to your statement that "we have our jails full of people who's only crime was against themselves (possesion)," it must be different out there on the Left Coast. Here in the Chicago area, possesion of small amounts of marijuana seldom results in any jail time. Must be due to a more progressive attitude here in the Flatlands!

 

[youbet]

I vote yea to decriminalize the use and license the production.

You want to license the production because.....

So the gov't can keep tens of thousands of drug cops employed only now they're busy checking out home gardens, kicking in homeowner's doors looking for the purple glow of grow lamps coming out from closet doors and emptying your freezer checking to see if any of the crop you harvested from a few container plants on the patio is still there?

Legalize it, let folks grow their own (along with tomatoes and other healthy garden plants) but require licensing to sell it for profit. In other words, handle it like homebrewing your own beer and wine....... OK to make it for yourself but you have to be licensed to go commercial.

JMHO. Gov't is intrusive enough already.

 

[MichaelB]

Legalize it, let folks grow their own (along with tomatoes and other healthy garden plants) but require licensing to sell it for profit. In other words, handle it like homebrewing your own beer and wine....... OK to make it for yourself but you have to be licensed to go commercial.

Works for me...

 

[Gumby]

Legalize it, let folks grow their own (along with tomatoes and other healthy garden plants) but require licensing to sell it for profit. In other words, handle it like homebrewing your own beer and wine....... OK to make it for yourself but you have to be licensed to go commercial.

JMHO. Gov't is intrusive enough already.

That would be my preference.

 

[RetiredGypsy]

Is the criminalization of marijuana the most hypocritical thing the federal government has done? I don't know, but it's interesting that there's a handful of people receiving legal marijuana courtesy of the government:

Madison NORML: 29 years ago today: First legal federal patient Robert Randall testifies at Wisconsin cannabis hearing

I caught something about this when Penn & Teller were having some television special a while ago. That was something.

There's hemp rope, hemp clothing and even hemp milk being made from seeds shipped from wherever (I saw the hemp milk was shipped from Canada). Companies can't even grow it here for profit, even without any intention of smoking it.

Somewhere, someone in a suit and a large office in an official building in D.C. is getting a huge laugh out of this, I can feel it in my funny bone.

 

[Independent]

This is easy - legalize it completely (not just "decriminalize"). Whatever damage the drug does is less than the damage we do by trying to prohibit it.

HOWEVER, this would be a great time to do something sensible that we didn't do with alcohol. When MJ is legal, we should still ban advertising. Prohibition may create lots of problems, but that doesn't mean we have to allow producers to spend huge amounts of money encouraging people to use it.

I'm old enough to have seen public perceptions of tobacco change. I think a major contributor to that is that we told tobacco companies they couldn't push their product on TV.

 

[ziggy29]

This is easy - legalize it completely (not just "decriminalize"). Whatever damage the drug does is less than the damage we do by trying to prohibit it.

I agree. "Decriminalize" means no change to the status quo other than that there will be no more criminal prosecution related to it (perhaps with some exceptions such as sale to minors and such).

If we're going to do that, we might as well also tax it and regulate its sale -- treat it much the same as alcohol, as others have mentioned -- and put some of the drug gangs out of the MJ business. But as I've said, I'd like to see this rolled out (no pun intended) on a small scale, at the state level, just in case the genie needs to remain in the bottle elsewhere.