Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
United Healthcare Stops Offering Insurance to Children
Old 05-03-2010, 09:59 AM   #1
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 923
United Healthcare Stops Offering Insurance to Children

United Healthcare has stopped offering child-only insurance policies as of last week. Other companies may follow suit as the new mandates for guaranteed coverage for children and minimum 80% loss ratio are going to kill companies that continue offering the policies:

Quote:
As of the end of April 2010, United Health One (the individual market subsidiary of Golden Rule/United Healthcare) has decided to discontinue offering health insurance to children in response to the new mandates under the recently signed Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. Children will still be able to get insurance as a dependent under an adult who is insured on the same plan, but parents will no longer be allowed to purchase child-only policies.

The new law states that by September 2010, children can no longer be denied for coverage based on pre-existing conditions. However, that assumes that the insurance company is offering to insure them in the first place. If the company will not offer any coverage, the law does not make any difference. Meanwhile, insurable children are penalized by the new law as it may severely limit their choices between companies and plans if other insurance companies follow the same path.

The healthcare bill was supposed to expand coverage to millions of uninsured Americans, increase choice and competition, and lower costs. Now, many of the provisions are coming into effect and causing the complete opposite – less coverage availability, less choice and competition as smaller companies leave the market (mainly due to minimum loss ratio requirements), and increased costs for provisions guaranteeing no cost-sharing for preventative care and guaranteed coverage for children. As we all know, nothing in life is free, and this may only be the beginning of what’s to come.
__________________

__________________
dgoldenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-03-2010, 11:46 AM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,049
A public option may be closer than we think.
__________________

__________________
eridanus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 11:48 AM   #3
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 923
Quote:
Originally Posted by eridanus View Post
A public option may be closer than we think.
All part of the plan...
__________________
dgoldenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 11:51 AM   #4
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by eridanus View Post
A public option may be closer than we think.
One indeed has to wonder if they buried stuff in this bill which they knew would lead to consequences leading to a demand for said public option. Clauses that encourage insurers to pull out of markets and stop issuing policies would have that effect, so perhaps they were "trojan horses" for the eventual introduction of the public option.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 12:29 PM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
IndependentlyPoor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 1,142
I suppose that pulling out of the market. Could just mean that they just don't know how to to price the risk. It will be interesting to see if all companies do the same.

I am a little surprised. Since it is a national law, the playing field should be level, so one would think that it would be just a profitable to compete for no-pre-existing condition policies as any other policy.

As for the politicts, i wouldn't put anything past either side. I find it easy to believe that the administration is including things to lead to a public option. I find it just as easy to believe that insurance companies are doing things like this to influence the November elections and to build opposition to any sort of health reform.
__________________
Start by admitting
from cradle to tomb
it isn't that long a stay.
IndependentlyPoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 12:33 PM   #6
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndependentlyPoor View Post
As for the politicts, i wouldn't put anything past either side. I find it easy to believe that the administration is including things to lead to a public option. I find it just as easy to believe that insurance companies are doing things like this to influence the November elections and to build opposition to any sort of health reform.
Yep. I don't trust either of them farther than I can throw my car.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 12:40 PM   #7
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 923
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndependentlyPoor View Post
I suppose that pulling out of the market. Could just mean that they just don't know how to to price the risk. It will be interesting to see if all companies do the same.

I am a little surprised. Since it is a national law, the playing field should be level, so one would think that it would be just a profitable to compete for no-pre-existing condition policies as any other policy.

As for the politicts, i wouldn't put anything past either side. I find it easy to believe that the administration is including things to lead to a public option. I find it just as easy to believe that insurance companies are doing things like this to influence the November elections and to build opposition to any sort of health reform.
They would probably rather not offer it at all than price it correctly and have more media outrage over the sky-high rates they will need to charge. Someone from another company told me today that a child with bipolar disorder last week had a 350% rate-up because of the prescription costs (they would have been declined previously). What would a child with cancer have, a 5,000% rate-up? There is no cap on rate-ups from what I have been told...
__________________
dgoldenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 12:50 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
One indeed has to wonder if they buried stuff in this bill which they knew would lead to consequences leading to a demand for said public option. Clauses that encourage insurers to pull out of markets and stop issuing policies would have that effect, so perhaps they were "trojan horses" for the eventual introduction of the public option.
I think so. Wait for the headline: "United Health One Will Not Insure Sick Children"
the formula is: Insert costly clauses in the law, make it impossible to exist as a business; demonized the business, eliminate the business.

I don't have children - so I don't care.
I don't earn over $200K - so I don't care if they tax them.


"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."
__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2010, 07:32 AM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
One indeed has to wonder if they buried stuff in this bill which they knew would lead to consequences leading to a demand for said public option. Clauses that encourage insurers to pull out of markets and stop issuing policies would have that effect, so perhaps they were "trojan horses" for the eventual introduction of the public option.
Which is why many people did not support the bill. It did nothing to curtail costs and in fact implemented several things that have the effect of raising costs. Since nothing was put in to control costs, the end result would be that the prices of policies would go up until people started to complain and no other option would be available but to implement a public option. There were and still are many people who understand the need for reform of health care, but wanted real reform not what was passed, which did the opposite of the stated intentions.
__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2010, 08:43 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by dex View Post
"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."
As a self described student of history you should know better than to use this as an analogy for health care legislation.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 08:16 AM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Back on topic.

What is the point of health insurance if only healthy people (or kids) can get it and previously healthy people with health insurance can lose it as soon as they get sick?

This is a false debate.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 09:15 AM   #12
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gone4Good View Post
Back on topic.

What is the point of health insurance if only healthy people (or kids) can get it and previously healthy people with health insurance can lose it as soon as they get sick?

This is a false debate.
False....health insurance contracts are guaranteed renewable.
__________________
dgoldenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 09:23 AM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgoldenz View Post
False....health insurance contracts are guaranteed renewable.
Ah yes, but at what price?? Raise it enough and it is as good as a cancellation.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 09:25 AM   #14
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat View Post
Ah yes, but at what price?? Raise it enough and it is as good as a cancellation.
That's part of the game...but they aren't cancelling it "because you get sick" - rate renewals must be the same for all insureds in that risk class/demographic. You aren't being singled out for your claims. I have plenty of healthy clients with 0 claims wanting to know why their rates are going up 25%...
__________________
dgoldenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 03:20 PM   #15
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgoldenz View Post
That's part of the game...but they aren't cancelling it "because you get sick" - rate renewals must be the same for all insureds in that risk class/demographic. You aren't being singled out for your claims. I have plenty of healthy clients with 0 claims wanting to know why their rates are going up 25%...
Right, but it's part of the game. If these healthy clients were unfortunate enough to be in the same rate pool as a disproportionate number of folks who later developed cancer or diabetes, they're screwed. That whole group can be jacked up to try to force the cancer patients out of the pool (perhaps into a state high risk pool).
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 03:23 PM   #16
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgoldenz View Post
False....health insurance contracts are guaranteed renewable.
Pardon me, but do you have a a source for that? My understanding is except for a small handful of states only group policies have any kind of regulatory protection.
__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 03:29 PM   #17
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 923
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Pardon me, but do you have a a source for that? My understanding is except for a small handful of states only group policies have any kind of regulatory protection.
Sure, read a health insurance policy. It is explicitly stated. I'll give you an excerpt from a United policy:

Quote:
Term of Policy and Right to Terminate:

The policy is issued for an indefinite term. It continues in force until terminated.

The policyholder may terminate the policy by giving written notice to us.

You may terminate your coverage by giving written notice to us. Termination will be effective on the latter of: (A) the date we receive the notice; or (B) the requested termination date.
And the "Termination of Insurance and Renewability" section:

Quote:
GUARANTEED RENEWABLE: You may keep this certificate in force by timely payment of the premiums. We may not refuse renewal of the policy/certificate unless:

(A): You fail to pay premiums when due, as described in the policy

(B): An act or practice that constitutes fraud or an intentional misrepresentation of material fact is made by or with the knowledge of the covered person in filing a claim for policy benefits

(C) We discontinue offering and refuse to renew all policies/certificates issued on this form with the same type and level of benefits, for all residents of the state where you reside; or

(D) We discontinue offering and refuse to renew all individual policies/certificates in the individual market in the state where you reside

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Right, but it's part of the game. If these healthy clients were unfortunate enough to be in the same rate pool as a disproportionate number of folks who later developed cancer or diabetes, they're screwed. That whole group can be jacked up to try to force the cancer patients out of the pool (perhaps into a state high risk pool).
You could say the same thing about being in a group - if you unfortunately happen to work at an employer that has a disproportionate amount of older, sicker individuals, your rates will be jacked up because of it. That's the way it goes...however, the ones driving up the claims are also the least likely to ever drop their plans, regardless of cost. It will always be cheaper for them to continue paying what they are than to go somewhere else unless there is a risk pool to join. However, they'd likely have to have no current insurance to get into the risk pool anyway. Of course, risk pools are usually incredibly expensive too.
__________________
dgoldenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 04:37 PM   #18
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,492
Quote:
Sure, read a health insurance policy. It is explicitly stated. I'll give you an excerpt from a United policy:
Of course a policy can be canceled. Independent Health cancelled my policy in 2001. What a insurance company cannot do is cancel your policy because you get sick. They can, however, discontinue your policy. One reason there are so many different policy groups is to enable this.
__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 05:54 PM   #19
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 923
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Of course a policy can be canceled. Independent Health cancelled my policy in 2001. What a insurance company cannot do is cancel your policy because you get sick. They can, however, discontinue your policy. One reason there are so many different policy groups is to enable this.
That's what I said....they can't cancel you because you get sick. If they stop selling insurance, sure they can. Another reason not to buy health insurance from a 3rd-tier regional company.
__________________
dgoldenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 07:17 PM   #20
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgoldenz View Post
That's what I said....they can't cancel you because you get sick. If they stop selling insurance, sure they can. Another reason not to buy health insurance from a 3rd-tier regional company.
Silly me. I thought you said
Quote:
False....health insurance contracts are guaranteed renewable.
This has nothing to do with third tier, or any other. This is an out that every insurance company of every tier has.
__________________

__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Insurance Carriers offering claims service only ? Lakewood90712 Health and Early Retirement 3 02-20-2010 01:08 PM
Very disappointed in United Healthcare crystal facet Hi, I am... 7 04-28-2009 01:28 PM
Large companies offering health insurance to early retirees? Nords Health and Early Retirement 4 07-08-2008 07:59 PM
HSA United HealthCare wallygator69 Health and Early Retirement 2 10-05-2007 03:28 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:20 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.