Natural Limits to Healthcare Expense Growth?
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Nords,
Well put on the military side of the healthcare equation, although I don't have as draconian an opinion of it as you. I also, in my civilian job, work for another large integrated healthcare organization which has a similar business model to the military one minus the compulsive checking (as my father always called it the annual 'poke and pry').
I do believe that having some fitness standards in general makes for a better life, so having the military make it compulsory helps my motivation at times. Not too mention showing my civilian colleagues that I have to do 50 situps, 20 male pushups and running 1.5 miles in a certain time boggles their mind. They get angst when the 'wellness' organization of my current employer suggests a physical fitness program.....
As in anything, being armed with knowledge helps in making the decision and understanding that there will always be tradeoffs for any decision makes expectations more realistic. Do I expect Nieman Marcus service at Walmart prices, no. From there I'd like information of what services are available at what prices and what my risks are.
As for helathcare utilization--I think it depends on where one lives. When I lived near the US/Mexican border, and if there was a 'county' facility, there were illegals using the services. At private facilities, no, they want paying customers.
The main thing I realize regarding healthcare is that it is a *business*, not a benevolent charity. The clinicians do care and usually want to be helping people, but they need to make a living, too, and they need to be paid for their services.
In any case - great thread and debate!
Bridget
Well put on the military side of the healthcare equation, although I don't have as draconian an opinion of it as you. I also, in my civilian job, work for another large integrated healthcare organization which has a similar business model to the military one minus the compulsive checking (as my father always called it the annual 'poke and pry').
I do believe that having some fitness standards in general makes for a better life, so having the military make it compulsory helps my motivation at times. Not too mention showing my civilian colleagues that I have to do 50 situps, 20 male pushups and running 1.5 miles in a certain time boggles their mind. They get angst when the 'wellness' organization of my current employer suggests a physical fitness program.....
As in anything, being armed with knowledge helps in making the decision and understanding that there will always be tradeoffs for any decision makes expectations more realistic. Do I expect Nieman Marcus service at Walmart prices, no. From there I'd like information of what services are available at what prices and what my risks are.
As for helathcare utilization--I think it depends on where one lives. When I lived near the US/Mexican border, and if there was a 'county' facility, there were illegals using the services. At private facilities, no, they want paying customers.
The main thing I realize regarding healthcare is that it is a *business*, not a benevolent charity. The clinicians do care and usually want to be helping people, but they need to make a living, too, and they need to be paid for their services.
In any case - great thread and debate!
Bridget
HFWR
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I did inhale; I just didn't exhale.............. 
Nords, great post on military healthcare. You know what you're talking about.
Up front: I retired in 1981 and I was 38 when I left, so some of my recollections will be different than yours. During all my 21 years, I spent exactly one week in the hospital (a horse stepped on my back and fractured a rib). I've no complaints, with the exception of the butch nurse who made me blow in that tube to keep my lungs clear! Oh an aside, there was a guy in the next bed with a shattered leg and who was going to be there a long time. Every afternoon a friend of his came in with a brown paper bag. Had a six pack in it. The guy told me the docs had agreed he could have his fix. Try that in Mega Hospital today!
Two of my children were born in military hospitals; one in Florida, other in England. Total cost: about $20-25 each. No problems, routine births.
When you're in the military you don't exactly have the perogatives of civilians. And, of course, it should be that way. Thus, the fitness testing, drug and alcohol indoctrinations, safety briefings, sex abuse trainings, etc. Gawd, do I remember Commander's call. Once a month, all those films about drugs. Paid off, though, as I returned to New Orleans, went to my favorite dive, and had a guy offer me "Christmas Trees", (as I recall). He told me it was a cheap drunk. All of those films came flooding back, and I politely declined.
I remember I had a hard time doing the 1 1/2 miles in 12 minutes. I could easily do that today (knees permitting), and have done it many times. I guess I'm in better shape now.
About the quality of military healthcare, I'm not as negative as you. That said, I do question the "older" doctors. Why would you stay in the military and earn about 1/10th of what you could get outside. Two reasons come to mind. (1) liability insurance costs too much; and (2) incompetence. #2 is the scary one, especially if he/she is a surgeon.
TRICARE is wonderful, at least for now, as I can get good doctors. However, I read that there are fewer and fewer docs willing to take TRICARE because they pay less and they're slower to pay. How they could be slower than, oh say Aetna, beats me, but that's what they say.
Here's a quote from your post that I empatically agree with:
-----------
Quote: Here's a couple more of my opinions-- the American pharma industry leads the world in R&D and drug advances. Medical tech leads in surgical equipment, methods, & treatments. American medical schools are besieged with foreign students who presumably could choose to attend one in their native countries. American doctors collaborate more effectively and share more information more widely in peer-reviewed journals/websites than the rest of the world. HMO's cost-control criteria have made life a living hell for most physicians in the name of cost efficiency.
Does the rest of the world do their own training, research, & initiatives-- or do they take advantage of the American advances? Which system has more imitators, the American one or the British/Canadian systems?
UNQUOTE
--------------------
I think the rest of the world is riding on our coattails, in pharmaceuticals and BTW, in defense spending, too. They are perfectly willing to allow Americans to pay the largest amount whilst they enjoy their great "lifestyle", and criticize us too. Their politicians should be thrown out, cause they're using us as the fall guy to cover up their own shortcomings, high taxes, and of course to further their authority.
Of course, as Dennis Miller says, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Up front: I retired in 1981 and I was 38 when I left, so some of my recollections will be different than yours. During all my 21 years, I spent exactly one week in the hospital (a horse stepped on my back and fractured a rib). I've no complaints, with the exception of the butch nurse who made me blow in that tube to keep my lungs clear! Oh an aside, there was a guy in the next bed with a shattered leg and who was going to be there a long time. Every afternoon a friend of his came in with a brown paper bag. Had a six pack in it. The guy told me the docs had agreed he could have his fix. Try that in Mega Hospital today!
Two of my children were born in military hospitals; one in Florida, other in England. Total cost: about $20-25 each. No problems, routine births.
When you're in the military you don't exactly have the perogatives of civilians. And, of course, it should be that way. Thus, the fitness testing, drug and alcohol indoctrinations, safety briefings, sex abuse trainings, etc. Gawd, do I remember Commander's call. Once a month, all those films about drugs. Paid off, though, as I returned to New Orleans, went to my favorite dive, and had a guy offer me "Christmas Trees", (as I recall). He told me it was a cheap drunk. All of those films came flooding back, and I politely declined.
I remember I had a hard time doing the 1 1/2 miles in 12 minutes. I could easily do that today (knees permitting), and have done it many times. I guess I'm in better shape now.
About the quality of military healthcare, I'm not as negative as you. That said, I do question the "older" doctors. Why would you stay in the military and earn about 1/10th of what you could get outside. Two reasons come to mind. (1) liability insurance costs too much; and (2) incompetence. #2 is the scary one, especially if he/she is a surgeon.
TRICARE is wonderful, at least for now, as I can get good doctors. However, I read that there are fewer and fewer docs willing to take TRICARE because they pay less and they're slower to pay. How they could be slower than, oh say Aetna, beats me, but that's what they say.
Here's a quote from your post that I empatically agree with:
-----------
Quote: Here's a couple more of my opinions-- the American pharma industry leads the world in R&D and drug advances. Medical tech leads in surgical equipment, methods, & treatments. American medical schools are besieged with foreign students who presumably could choose to attend one in their native countries. American doctors collaborate more effectively and share more information more widely in peer-reviewed journals/websites than the rest of the world. HMO's cost-control criteria have made life a living hell for most physicians in the name of cost efficiency.
Does the rest of the world do their own training, research, & initiatives-- or do they take advantage of the American advances? Which system has more imitators, the American one or the British/Canadian systems?
UNQUOTE
--------------------
I think the rest of the world is riding on our coattails, in pharmaceuticals and BTW, in defense spending, too. They are perfectly willing to allow Americans to pay the largest amount whilst they enjoy their great "lifestyle", and criticize us too. Their politicians should be thrown out, cause they're using us as the fall guy to cover up their own shortcomings, high taxes, and of course to further their authority.
Of course, as Dennis Miller says, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
I heard a discussion on the radio between a rep from pharma and a critic -- critic claimed that the drug industry makes FAR more money on treating "healthy" people with meds such as Viagra, drugs for "anxiety disorder," etc. etc. than it ever could by developing meds for the smaller number of truly sick people. She said that most of the big R&D dollars were going there, and that real diseases (apart from the big ones - heart disease and the like) were of secondary interest.
She also claimed that many of the "new"drugs coming out replace older meds (for instance, my hayfever medication) were no better than the old versions, but were developed and heavily marketed because they could be patented after the old meds' patents had expired. In some cases, she claimed, the new ones were actually less effective.
I wish to heck I could remember her name so I could provide a source -- all that's left to me is to say that the U.S. drug industry MAY lead the world in R&D and advances, but that there are critics who dispute that.
Food for thought...
Caroline
I feel like I am a personal expert on medical treatment of allergies, like Nords feels like he is a personal expert on his own tax situation. I agree that the newer prescription anithistamines seem less effective than the older, over the counter pills, like Benedryl. The only upside to the newer ones is that they don't tend to make you sleepy.
In 2002, Claritin became the first non-sedating antihistamine that could be purchased over-the-counter. Since becoming an over the counter drug, the price for Claritin has dropped up to 70 percent. Generic versions of Claritin are also now available because loratadine, the active ingredient in Claritin, lost its patent in December of 2002.
Alavert is the first generic option and is about 40 percent less expensive than Claritin. Alavert is also being sold over-the-counter.
In 2002, Claritin became the first non-sedating antihistamine that could be purchased over-the-counter. Since becoming an over the counter drug, the price for Claritin has dropped up to 70 percent. Generic versions of Claritin are also now available because loratadine, the active ingredient in Claritin, lost its patent in December of 2002.
Alavert is the first generic option and is about 40 percent less expensive than Claritin. Alavert is also being sold over-the-counter.
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
You can buy the knock-off claritin at sams club and costco for something like 200 pills for $6. Benedryl is really, really unbelievable. I get 400 of them for $3.50 at the local sams.
Did you also know that the dominant sleeping tablets are nothing more than benedryl? Check the ingredients. Last time I checked you got 10-12 'sleep helpers' for $5. Or those 400 benedryl.
I take one benedryl before bed, half to help put me to sleep and half to keep me from getting stuffy.
Had allergies all my life although they were almost intolerable when I lived in New England and nothing helped. Either it made me sleepy or didnt work. The allergies havent been bad at all since moving to california although they were undetectable in the bay area I'm a little sniffy in the central valley.
I've taken a few claritin and they seemed to work. My wife takes them and says they're effective, although she tried allegra and said she didnt think it did anything. Seemed to me when she was taking it she had fewer allergy problems though...
Did you also know that the dominant sleeping tablets are nothing more than benedryl? Check the ingredients. Last time I checked you got 10-12 'sleep helpers' for $5. Or those 400 benedryl.
I take one benedryl before bed, half to help put me to sleep and half to keep me from getting stuffy.
Had allergies all my life although they were almost intolerable when I lived in New England and nothing helped. Either it made me sleepy or didnt work. The allergies havent been bad at all since moving to california although they were undetectable in the bay area I'm a little sniffy in the central valley.
I've taken a few claritin and they seemed to work. My wife takes them and says they're effective, although she tried allegra and said she didnt think it did anything. Seemed to me when she was taking it she had fewer allergy problems though...
I was on Vancenase & Flonase for five years to reduce allergy congestion leading to ear infections. It all cleared up and went away about six months after ER.Martha said:
While it's true that the immune system peaks at ~35 and becomes less reactive with age, the ER coincidence is hard to ignore.
Or maybe it's related to sleep deprivation? TH, perhaps you should be giving baby Benadryl to your kid at bedtime!
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Dont think the thought hasnt occurred to me...
Claritin saved/changed my life. Constant allergy attacks. Benadryl knocked me out cold. Taking Claritin was like taking the sunglasses off. Weird though, now adays, 6 years after first discovering it, I only get attacks about twice a year, which Claritin clears up right away. Did my body give up trying to punish me?
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
You can 'gain' and 'lose' allergies over time.
One old homespun cure that may be helping me see much lower allergy troubles here on the left coast is eating raw local honey. The idea being the stuff is so loaded with all the local pollens and whatnot that you overload on it and lose the allergic reaction to it.
I dont know if that actually works or not, but most of the honey I ate in new england came out of a plastic bear while I drop by the local farmers markets here and pick up a jar while I'm getting my produce.
One old homespun cure that may be helping me see much lower allergy troubles here on the left coast is eating raw local honey. The idea being the stuff is so loaded with all the local pollens and whatnot that you overload on it and lose the allergic reaction to it.
I dont know if that actually works or not, but most of the honey I ate in new england came out of a plastic bear while I drop by the local farmers markets here and pick up a jar while I'm getting my produce.
Nords said:
Perhaps you are allergic to something that you were exposed to at work.
Laurence said:
Same here. One Benadryl and I'm out for the day. My allergies also run in cycles. Iinhalers also work, but only after a couple of days.
Often people lose allergies as they get older.
I tried allergy shots for a number of years. They would work fine until I would develop a new allergy. I am just bound and determine to have a hyperactive system.
Now I use Flonase (nasal stuff), Flovent and Albuteral (asthma) and Patanol (eyes). Skip the pills, don't seem to help.
No carpets. Keep a clean bedroom and eliminate stuff from bedroom. New pillows every 6 months. No dogs on bed. Run a dehumidifier. And still asthma.
Maybe when I retire they all will go away.
I tried allergy shots for a number of years. They would work fine until I would develop a new allergy. I am just bound and determine to have a hyperactive system.
Now I use Flonase (nasal stuff), Flovent and Albuteral (asthma) and Patanol (eyes). Skip the pills, don't seem to help.
No carpets. Keep a clean bedroom and eliminate stuff from bedroom. New pillows every 6 months. No dogs on bed. Run a dehumidifier. And still asthma.
Maybe when I retire they all will go away.
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Sounds like you're on the same regimen as my wife. She's got allergies and asthma and takes flovent and albuteral. She weaned herself off of most of the other stuff...they had her taking a whole handful of pills on top of the inhalers.
Unfortunately we have permanently disgusting carpets that despite weekly steam cleanings look like muddy dogs just rolled on it. We've talked about ridding ourselves of the carpets and replacing them with pergo. Big job though and a lot of stuff to move.
I wish we could keep the dogs off the bed. No chance of that. Our girl dog wont sleep unless she's under the covers with her back right up against mine. The boy dog whines until we make room for him too.
Unfortunately we have permanently disgusting carpets that despite weekly steam cleanings look like muddy dogs just rolled on it. We've talked about ridding ourselves of the carpets and replacing them with pergo. Big job though and a lot of stuff to move.
I wish we could keep the dogs off the bed. No chance of that. Our girl dog wont sleep unless she's under the covers with her back right up against mine. The boy dog whines until we make room for him too.
So far, my medical problems have been minor enough that I have been able to avoid taking OTC or prescription medicine for most of my adult life. Not even a flu shot. Maybe I've been lucky so far.
I'm not sure how bad some of your allergies get but for me I just endure the discomfort. I may spash water on my eyes to diminish the itching. When I have a sneezing fit, I just curse after each sneeze like a drunken sailor.
Maybe my seasonal allergies are minor compare to most.
MJ
I'm not sure how bad some of your allergies get but for me I just endure the discomfort. I may spash water on my eyes to diminish the itching. When I have a sneezing fit, I just curse after each sneeze like a drunken sailor.
Maybe my seasonal allergies are minor compare to most.
MJ
My big worry is taking steroids. Not that my ***** will shrink or anything, but long time use of steroids can impede the ability to heal. My sister in LA has to take tons of pill versions of steroids as well as the inhaled version for her asthma. She had an operation and it took two years to heal. 
A friend of my with big dogs put in a Pergo floor. He says never again. Too slippery. The dogs are always skittering about and falling down. How about cork? Easy on the feet and naturally mold resistant.
A friend of my with big dogs put in a Pergo floor. He says never again. Too slippery. The dogs are always skittering about and falling down. How about cork? Easy on the feet and naturally mold resistant.
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Hmm...thanks for the word on the pergo. Ours already slide around on the vinyl kitchen floor. Wow, my genetically enhanced intelligence should have caught that one Sounds like some other options are in order.
I cant help but ask what the word was that got '*****'ed out above...inquiring minds want to know...
Sounds like some other options are in order.I cant help but ask what the word was that got '*****'ed out above...inquiring minds want to know...
Begins with b. (Dangers of anabolic steriods. If you're male, you can get erection problems, grow breasts, become sterile and develop acne. It can also make your testicles shrink. Quite a big price to pay for impressive muscles.)
Mr._johngalt
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
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Martha said:
In the interest of science, I am asking th to post a photo of himself
here (nude if possible). I have a theory
JG
Could be-- like 60-hour weeks or co-workers?JB said:
It started in San Diego and followed us back to Hawaii. Everything about the two commands was different (except for the hours & associates). Allergen skin scratch tests showed a moderate response to dust mites. (There's those military medical benefits again-- ironically severe allergies are considered disqualifying for submarine duty.) So we bought the mattress & pillow covers and it didn't seem to make a detectable difference. But it could have.
I'd go off the Flonase periodically, live with the congestion, and a month or two later I'd come down with an ear infection.
The last time I went off the medication was a couple months after starting ER-- BAM, another ear infection. I tried it again six months later and I've been allergy-free for over two years. I take a squirt or two a year when I'm fighting off a virus or a respiratory infection (those are agreeably rare these days too) but I wonder if that's just a placebo effect.
Or maybe the surfing gives me regular therapeutic sinus flushes (with occasional sand scrubs). I'm a big believer in saline hydrotherapy.
Eight feet on the south shore yesterday, and the kid got herself up on the shorter (8 foot) board. We met a neighbor who's eagerly anticipating his Navy retirement in a couple years-- we surveyed the beach scenery and agreed that life is good.
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
MRGALT2U said:In the interest of science, I am asking th to post a photo of himself
here (nude if possible). I have a theory
Is that you Ed Teach?
Once again, my primary achievement around here appears to be guys that want to have sex with me, see naked pictures of me, or show me their snake.
Does your wife know about this unusual leaning you have Johnny?
OP
OP
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
vic said:
Please, don't put "just" and "breast" together.
Mikey
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Amen brother.
If I took something and grew breasts, I probably wouldnt have ever left the house again...
If I took something and grew breasts, I probably wouldnt have ever left the house again...
Well, John, it took you over 5000 posts to get to the point, but I see that you've finally "revealed" the real reason you're here!MRGALT2U said:In the interest of science, I am asking th to post a photo of himself
here (nude if possible). I have a theory
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