Auto Service $ - Is It Just Me?

[Midpack]

I'm curious what you skipped, if it was recc in the manual (or by 'mfg', did you mean 'dealer'?)?

I can see things like inspecting air filters and replace as needed, rather than by miles. But things like coolant, or trans oil changes, I would follow the book.

As I said earlier, I summarily ignore dealer added recommendations, and some significant manufacturer recommendations as well WRT at what mileage they're really necessary. Most can wait longer or run to (near) fail. So I guess I fall somewhere between you and Koolau in my auto maintenance MO. I am more conservative than Koolau and you're more conservative than I am. So far, I've yet to have a costly surprise...knock on wood, or my head if closer.

 

[Chuckanut]

For my previous car the dealer wanted to do a fuel injector system cleaning at 60,000 miles. About $200 to hook up a machine that ran a cleaner through the tubes and injectors. I said no. The car has 140,000 on it and the injectors are still fine.

 

[Texas Proud]

/snip/

So some people aren't getting their air pressure checked, and that's more important than the exact % of N (if important at all).

-ERD50

But since new cars have TPMS it is not as big of a deal...

 

[imoldernu]

My two cars look beautiful... KBB price
98 Lincoln Signature 125K miles. Dealer price $3400, Private party $2500
06 Cadillac SLS 78K miles.Dealer price $2800, Private party $2200
pIc:
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/favorite-vehicle-youve-ever-owned-63640.html#post1249874
(your favorite might have been on this thread... memories)

They run great... both have the same problem... the auto suspension system... (ride softness, self leveling) don't work, so the default is "off" and a ride that is a teensy bit harder, but which is great for handling. All else works.

Past 5 years extra costs:
Cadillac: brake line fix.. $200, oil change (me) $10 w/synthetic oil and filter. Ignition repair $250.
Lincoln: $29 oil change, $400 tires, $120 brakes and rotors... (me)

Total average cost per month including service, depreciation, insurance, registration... since we bought (Lincoln in 2000, Cadillac in 2004) I calculate at $133/car per month.

Yeah... so we don't drive much anymore. Helps with the budget. Probably no more cars for us, 'cept I have my eye on the 2008 Pontiac G6 that my 90 year old neighbor drives... when she gets a new car... garaged, and w/25K miles... white sports coupe. Nice, but not as fast as my SLS.

It will be a cold day in hell when I bring my car in for a dealer inspection. 7 years ago the Lincoln dealer warned me about my "unsafe" car, and wanted to do $5500 in suspension work.

 

[Lakewood90712]

My two cars look beautiful... KBB price
..............snip.......................................................................................
It will be a cold day in hell when I bring my car in for a dealer inspection. 7 years ago the Lincoln dealer warned me about my "unsafe" car, and wanted to do $5500 in suspension work.

That $5500 would have supported quite a good vacation for the parties involved, except the owner paying the bill.

 

[Bamaman]

I worked for a major auto manufacturer for 24 years, and am completely familiar with every facet of a dealership operations.

Don't ever believe that the Service Writer at a new car dealership is your friend. He is a very well paid commissioned salesman, and his job is selling $1000 brake jobs to little old ladies that should cost $400 tops. The prerequisite for becoming a Service Writer is a complete lack of conscience and the need for more money.

Go to any dealership for a 30K, 60K or 90K maintenance, and you've given that Service Writer a license to steal. Never, never fall for such a package.

My family still owns a new car dealership that's been voted #1 car dealership and #1 luxury car dealership 5 years in a row--in a city of 1 million people. They're #2 in service satisfaction. The only time my car has ever been in the service department was the day I picked it up. I would never use a new car dealership for service unless it's a recall or warranty work.

Go to the owners manual or maintenance chart and specifically order what maintenance needs done. And find yourself a first rate local independent mechanic to do the work for 40% of what a new car dealership has to charge.

 

[pb4uski]

You don't get a deal at your family's dealership? So much for the friends and family discount.

 

[2017ish]

I worked for a major auto manufacturer for 24 years, and am completely familiar with every facet of a dealership operations.

... I would never use a new car dealership for service unless it's a recall or warranty work.

.....

Last month, for the first time ever, we took a car to the Dealer. 2009 Civic with 90,000 miles, running very rough (esp at start up) and the independent we went to first couldn't figure it out. Thus, figured Dealer was maybe worth it.

Dealer: "Computer says nothing wrong, all 2009s run like this." No charge from dealer, luckily.

Still not running right, so took it to inconveniently located, old-stalwart independent: Broken engine mount and, "maybe" needs valve adjustment. Went with both and runs fine now. So much for the expertise of the dealer....

 

[aja8888]

Do most people really spend $595 on service without any idea what's included?

I don't know about most people, but I certainly have not, and never will. As a matter of good practice, I have no plans to bring any of our vehicles, new or otherwise, into a dealer for anything. And that includes my 2014 VW turbocharged diesel Passat.

I do not have any recollection of ever bringing a car into a dealership for an inspection (God forbid), scheduled maintenance, or a repair. All maintenance and repairs are done by me, and if I can't do it, then we have a trusted independent shop that gets the work.

For those of you that go to those dealer service department rip offs, open your owner's manual and find the maintenance schedule and read it. No where on it does it recommend fuel injector cleaning (hey guys, gasoline is a solvent!). Most, if not all, coolant systems contain fluid that do not require changing for at least 100,000 miles (or more). Auto transmission service? Usually not for 100,000 or more miles. Etc, etc.

Do have your timing belt changed on time, though (if your engine has one). Preferentially at an independent shop that will change ALL the rotating parts in the belt path. (Dealer mech typically just changes the fabric belt to save time and make him more dollars). Oh, timing belts usually don't break on their own...it's usually a water pump or idler pulley that fails and takes the belt out. And that usually happens if you don't change those rotating parts out during the first belt change interval.

(My pet peeve) - Dealer oil changes:

If you folks with turbo charged engines let the "wash jockeys" at the dealership change your oil (mechanics are usually too busy on "high dollar" work to change oil), you better hope the correct spec oil is put in or you may be buying a turbo very soon, and they are not cheap. Turbocharger shafts spin pretty fast and get real hot. 100% synthetic oil is generally spec'd for the oil change since the turbo shaft is lubed through a line from the oil pump system. Dino oil can't tolerate the heat and burns off, and the shaft will fail. All car manufacturers have a written spec for the oil manufacturer to meet and that is also spelled out in your owners manual.

Also, stay away from "quickee" oil change shops. Their techs are less qualified than the dealer wash jockeys.

 

[Bamaman]

Last month, for the first time ever, we took a car to the Dealer. 2009 Civic with 90,000 miles, running very rough (esp at start up) and the independent we went to first couldn't figure it out. Thus, figured Dealer was maybe worth it.

Dealer: "Computer says nothing wrong, all 2009s run like this." No charge from dealer, luckily.

Still not running right, so took it to inconveniently located, old-stalwart independent: Broken engine mount and, "maybe" needs valve adjustment. Went with both and runs fine now. So much for the expertise of the dealer....

The Honda is known for durability. They do have to have the timing belt changed from time to time, and that's about it other than oil changes. If you have a manual shift, the transmission fluid needs changed every other oil change. We have a 2012 Civic SI.

 

[Bamaman]

You don't get a deal at your family's dealership? So much for the friends and family discount.

The brother price consists of purchasing new automobiles for dead invoice price minus current factory sales incentives. That's $4K-$5K less than the general public will pay for high demand luxury cars.

The Service Department gives no discounts to relatives--or employees. That includes the owners--who even pay full price for service work.

 

[Telly]

Do most people really spend $595 on service without any idea what's included?

This person doesn't... because other than tire mounting and balancing, this person does everything himself. The last time I paid for anything other than that was back about 1990, which convinced me that doing my own work would continue.

But someday, I will become physically unable to do all the things I do. When that day comes, I want someone to shoot me, making the first shot count. It's a quality of life thing with me.

 

[Sunset]

I don't do plugs myself either, anymore

These new plugs come already gapped and last about 80,000 miles. You can still buy the cheap copper ones that only last 20,000 miles but its not worth saving $3 / plug considering the effort involved.

I changed the plugs twice in the 12 yrs I had my car, that's all it needed as I only drove it 106,000 miles.

 

[maloney50]

Isn't it sad that at least in the flemington area of nj, that you have car dealers who consistently recommend un needed service. My wife of course goes to the dealer sometimes and comes back with a proposal of things to do. We then bring this to my independent repair shop and get their take, and their story is much different. These people are not your friends but nice thieves. These are the same folks who when you buy your car will put you through a gauntlet of proposals on things like extended warranties and pin striping. To bad you have to teach your children about these things.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[frank]

servicewriters paychecks are on commission so the more they can sell you the more they make, it's as simple as that.

 

[FUEGO]

FYI, the independent shops don't always charge less for some routine maintenance tasks.

A while back I called up my local well known Honda/Toyota independent shop. I also called the Honda dealer up the street where we bought DW's car 15 years ago. Dealer was cheaper on all services quoted (independent price first, then dealer price):

Accord
oil change 35 31.14
coolant replacement 115 65
brake fluid replacement 89 85

Civic
oil change 35 31.14
coolant replacement 115 65

Timing belt was also cheaper and I used the dealer, but it was pretty close ($500-600 ish with the independent being ~$50 more - make sure to inquire about replacing the water pump and that it's included in any quoted price).

I'm pretty sure it's because the dealer wants to charge $4 less for an oil change to get you in the door and then sell you hundreds of dollars of additional service. $4 to acquire an additional $300-400 in revenue is a pretty inexpensive marketing expense. And I rarely get out of the dealer without having some multi-hundred dollar repair recommended. I like their free inspections as it gives me a starting point to investigate potential repairs I might need or to monitor for changes long term.

The advantage of the independent shop is they operate on trust and tell me over and over that I should skip a recommended service when it makes sense or to let it go another 10-30k miles and see if everything is still fine. So I'm pretty sure you'll save money overall at the independent shop, but if you can shop the dealer for the loss leaders, you might come out ahead.

 

[Nunthewiser]

This person doesn't... because other than tire mounting and balancing, this person does everything himself. The last time I paid for anything other than that was back about 1990, which convinced me that doing my own work would continue.

But someday, I will become physically unable to do all the things I do. When that day comes, I want someone to shoot me, making the first shot count. It's a quality of life thing with me.

I could have written this as well, except that I also mount, balance and align (simple toe-in and guess at camber). I started doing it when the high school dropouts at Walmart told me what tires they would sell me on my wimpy Rabbit diesel (52 hp) pickup "truck".

 

[Which Roger]

I once took my SUV which had a noise coming from the front differential to a Chevy dealer. Their diagnosis was that the differential was shot, and cost would be 1800 plus whatever else they found once they dug deeper. I also got the "it's been a good vehicle, but may be time for a new one" spiel. I thanked them and took it to the ma-and-pa mechanic that I know and trust. Topped off the differential fluid for 20 bucks, and the problem was gone.

More recently, I've been to the same tire-and-repair franchise 3 times in the past couple years, for new tires and a couple tire repairs. Inevitably, the technician finds something generically wrong with the vehicle - leaking strut, worn ball joint, worn brake pads. But I know the vehicle well enough to know what the symptoms would be, so say no thanks. And they never find the same problem on consecutive visits. Hmmm.....

 

[Big_Hitter]

These new plugs come already gapped and last about 80,000 miles. You can still buy the cheap copper ones that only last 20,000 miles but its not worth saving $3 / plug considering the effort involved.

I changed the plugs twice in the 12 yrs I had my car, that's all it needed as I only drove it 106,000 miles.

for Subaru turbo cars the stock plugs need regapped and they don't last that long if you are hitting a lot of boost


plus to change them you have to remove he intake, water bottle etc and then take off the coil packs; huge pita

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Last month I took my Ford Ranger to a dealership for service when the left rear brake cylinder started leaking. Aside from recalls it was the first time I'd taken a vehicle to a dealer in at least 20 years.

I had replaced the right rear cylinder myself last summer. It wasn't leaking at the time, but the bleeder screw was seized. The job was a minor nightmare (I ended up having to replace a brake line), so I decided to do the other side later. So of course the remaining cylinder went out when the temperature was topping out in the single digits.

The thought of crawling under the truck was not appealing, so I checked with the local independents. Everybody was booked into next week. Meanwhile the truck's brake system was going drip, drip, drip.

Ford got me in and out the same day I called. It probably cost me $80 more than I would have spent elsewhere (they also replaced the cylinder I had installed last summer, which annoyed me a bit). But the work got done quickly, before the truck had drooled brake fluid all over my driveway. And all the parts are OE Ford, if that matters.

Fast, good and cheap -- choose any two.

 

[Texas Proud]

I once took my SUV which had a noise coming from the front differential to a Chevy dealer. Their diagnosis was that the differential was shot, and cost would be 1800 plus whatever else they found once they dug deeper. I also got the "it's been a good vehicle, but may be time for a new one" spiel. I thanked them and took it to the ma-and-pa mechanic that I know and trust. Topped off the differential fluid for 20 bucks, and the problem was gone.

More recently, I've been to the same tire-and-repair franchise 3 times in the past couple years, for new tires and a couple tire repairs. Inevitably, the technician finds something generically wrong with the vehicle - leaking strut, worn ball joint, worn brake pads. But I know the vehicle well enough to know what the symptoms would be, so say no thanks. And they never find the same problem on consecutive visits. Hmmm.....

This is one reason that I get my tires from a shop that ONLY does tires..... no upsale potential at all.... and they are very good at doing tires since that is all they do....

 

[Big_Hitter]

our local Subaru dealership is extremely competitive with tires, if not cheaper than the tire shop, I actually bought my bfg all terrains there for my ranger


plus they compete with labor too since a few tuning shops here are getting a lot of the Subaru work (we have a lot of subarus here)

 

[Bestwifeever]

Maybe it depends on where you are and your skill set (we have no automotive skill set). We have a lot of choices for car maintenance and have used most of them but we have taken our current two cars to their respective dealers where we bought them new for almost everything. I would expect a push for a new version, especially of our ten year old Acura, but when the timing belt was replaced on schedule they told DH we could easily get another 100k miles out of the car.

At both dealerships they tell us exactly what needs to be done per our cars' service manual and what additional work they might recommend and what the cost would be broken down by item. I am sure the additional work includes upsell items but we can skip them (as well as anything else on the list). Interestingly, about half the time they do not suggest anything else, and there have been times when they tell us the brakes are still good, for example. We have never needed anything repaired or replaced on either car--sticking to the manufacturers' maintenance schedule must be working, knock on wood.

We almost always just go with what they suggest but I can see why people who know cars would be able to analyze the suggestions better than we can. It has made our car-owning so much less stressful.

But only an idiot would give a mechanic a blank check with a ballpark amount for unspecified work, to answer the OP's question. That surprises me that a Toyota dealership would do that.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

That surprises me that a Toyota dealership would do that.

For many years a number of Toyota and Honda dealerships in my area were famous for their piratic ways. If they had a popular model, they'd jack the price up above the suggested retail. Whatever the traffic would bear. Parts and service were the same story. People with lower levels of mechanical ability tend to like the brands because they have a reputation for reliability -- but those consumers can be vulnerable at the retail level.

Fortunately, the Internet has given people a convenient way to shop around. You can compare prices, and reputations for incompetence or dishonesty will out through sites like Yelp or Angie's List.

 

[Lakewood90712]

The brother price consists of purchasing new automobiles for dead invoice price minus current factory sales incentives. That's $4K-$5K less than the general public will pay for high demand luxury cars.

The Service Department gives no discounts to relatives--or employees. That includes the owners--who even pay full price for service work.

This reminds me of the different " Profit Centers " at a dealership . Sales, Service, Parts Dept. Body Shop, and one local Chevy Dealer has a Medium duty Truck/ motor-home service dept, completely separate from the normal service dept.

Each is responsible for making money independently from the other dept's.

The Truck/ motor home dept. does xlnt work , has different shop rate, 40,000 # chassis diesel motorhome with allison truck transmission , no problem.

On the other hand , the regular car / light truck service dept is pathetic , but they do have free coffee and pastries.

This dealer is owned by one of the largest chain owner in the nation.

Tip: if you have a problem with something in the steering collum , dashboard or electrical system, a good body shop is likely able to find and fix it quicker and cheaper than the dealer regular service service dept.