Might be heading for divorce...

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aja8888 said:
Angry spouses feed greedy lawyers and I have seen this more times than I care to believe.
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+1

I've heard more than one divorce lawyer say "I'm not in the divorce business. I'm in the revenge business".

My own divorce 35 years ago was one of the more amicable ones I've ever heard of, but once the decision was made there wasn't a whole lot to argue about: split the remaining assets, no children to think of, and our incomes and benefits were virtually identical so there was nothing to be gained by going after each other's. I think the lawyer's fee was $100 at the time and that was just to handle the paperwork on a non-contested divorce.

And things do get better even if a divorce does happen. Although I couldn't possibly have anticipated it at the time, I wouldn't appreciate DW as much as I do had I not been through that experience first. Later this month will be our 30th anniversary.
 
FIREd said:
The past 3 years (after she retired) were the best ones IMO. So if she checked out, it either happened very recently or she excels at hiding her feelings.
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If your wife has not totally checked out already, the Gottman Institute DVDs have exercises on discovering and honoring each others hopes and dreams. It seems like you two are not on the same page right now in terms of your visions of an ideal retirement lifestyle, but maybe it is not too late to find some middle ground.
 
haha said:
It must be asked-might she have met someone else? People don't always fall out of love because something is wrong. People sometimes just fall in love with someone else.

If this is the case and you can tolerate it, it may blow over. Plenty guys enjoy other men's wives, but they often don't want to support them or be stuck with them. it is part of our national belief system that if something is not well, it must have a cause, someone to blame, and a proper and efficacious therapy for it.
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Well, yes, she did meet a new someone - but not another guy. She met a new (girl)friend 6 months ago and they really hit it off ("they are like sisters"). Anyway, the shadow of the "friend" has become ever present in our lives since. I have only met her twice and we hardly talked at all. But I did notice that my wife was acting differently around her. Anyway, I have it on good order that the new friend has plenty of bad things to say about me. So I have no doubt that she has a negative influence on our relationship even if my wife does not see it herself. But I can't say anything bad about the new GF without creating a huge fire storm. I usually fight hard to remove such toxic people from my life, but this one seems to stick like a tick. Clearly the GF is not responsible for all of our issues but she is pouring gasoline on the fire.
 
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FIREd said:
Well, yes, she did meet a new someone - but not another guy. She met a new (girl)friend 6 months ago and they really hit it off ("they are like sisters"). Anyway, the shadow of the "friend" has become ever present in our lives since. I have only met her twice and we hardly talked at all. But I did notice that my wife was acting differently around her. Anyway, I have it on good order that the new friend has plenty of bad things to say about me. So I have no doubt that she has a negative influence on our relationship even if my wife does not see it herself. But I can't say anything bad about the new GF without creating a huge fire storm. Clearly we have other issues but the GF is pouring gasoline of the fire.
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And I bet the GF is single. Am I right?
 
tmm99 said:
And I bet the GF is single. Am I right?
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No she has a husband and two kids (including a disabled teenager who requires constant supervision). Her husband is not too thrilled about the friendship either because he is the one who is stuck at home with the kid when they go out. But she seems bored with her family life to me.
 
If it does go that way just remember the attorney(s) is/are never your friend, your finances are the target and they’re shooting for the bullseye
 
I'm single and have never been married, so I have no relationship advice for you. I'm glad you have friends here and a place to seek advice, but just a caution not to write anything here you wouldn't want to see show up in a divorce proceeding. You never know how things will turn out.
 
My sister (DS) was married to a man for 15 years when she fell in love with her neighbor....who was a woman about her age. The neighbor was also married to a man.

That was over 20 years ago, and my DS and DSis In-law have been together since and are a legally married gay couple. I am thrilled with how happy they are. They weren't unhappy in their marriages and certainly had no plans to fall in love with someone else....but it happened.
 
My marriage has been one that is very different to most but it works for us. My interests are completely 180 degrees apart from hers. What she like I don't and what I like she doesn't. I do my thing she does hers and we are very happy and I really honestly can not remember if we have ever argued in our 36 years of marriage.

We trust each other we spend time together at our home and travel some together and go some places together but that is really the extent of our relationship spending time together. I can go where ever when ever and she encourages me to do so. I'm the same way with her if she wants to do or go places and I don't she does it and I have no problems with it at all. I love the outdoors and spend 100's of day in the back country without her. I also own a ranch and spend a lot of time there working it and enjoying the outdoors etc.. She doesn't go to the ranch and work it with me. She does a lot of volunteer work and that is one of her loves of life plus many other things she enjoys.

It works for us very very well. I have also felt very lucky to have a person like that to go through life with.

I always tell her I will see you on the flip flop. LOL
 
Keep the counseling appt. I have been married to my DH 38yrs this month. When I look back on a time I mentioned to him the D word, he looked me in the eye and simply said “No. That’s not happening”. Now I laugh about it. It was the end of the conversation. All relationships have their “stuff”. To this day I respect him for his response.
 
This definitely feels like an overreaction to me. If it is your first fight in 15 years, it is likely her airing out her hopes and dreams for herself. Listen! Understand her points. Give her space.
 
FIREd said:
Well, yes, she did meet a new someone - but not another guy. She met a new (girl)friend 6 months ago and they really hit it off ("they are like sisters"). Anyway, the shadow of the "friend" has become ever present in our lives since. I have only met her twice and we hardly talked at all. But I did notice that my wife was acting differently around her. Anyway, I have it on good order that the new friend has plenty of bad things to say about me. So I have no doubt that she has a negative influence on our relationship even if my wife does not see it herself. But I can't say anything bad about the new GF without creating a huge fire storm. I usually fight hard to remove such toxic people from my life, but this one seems to stick like a tick. Clearly the GF is not responsible for all of our issues but she is pouring gasoline on the fire.
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Here you go. You buried the lead in your original post.

You know the source of your troubles and this is very serious. I've seen several divorces from "friends" who lead a spouse astray. I'm seeing it right now in my own neighborhood with two acquaintances of DW.

I urge you to seek couples therapy and bring this up in therapy (not on your own or else you'll just look pathetically jealous).
 
You might be right to be a little worried; some respect issues at stake. If she’ll do couples counseling that would be a good sign imo.
 
Thanks all! Lots of interesting perspectives here. I am now going to step away from this thread to process all of this. I might give some updates every few months to let you know where this is going.
 
FIREd said:
I must admit that I have a hard time with the "do your thing and I'll do mine". Up until now, we have been like 2 peas in a pod and have always done everything together. I feel strange about the idea of traveling solo for example. But I am heartened to see that it works for a lot of people here. I hope that we can regain our individualities without breaking the bond between us.
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FIREd, sorry you are going through this. No advice, I can only share our experience. It took my DW a couple of years to organize her fire life (Okay, it took me a couple of years also). We are as close as any couple we know. We spend much more time together compared to pre-fire. However, we do not spend all of our time together and both realize it is not the other's responsibility to entertain the other. I returned yesterday from a week long fishing trip with a friend. My wife returned this morning from a lake trip with her girlfriends. Just as we did not spend all of our time together during our w*rking life, we do not spend all of our time together in fire. We share the passions we have in common and solo the items that do not overlap.
 
FIREd said:
Thanks all for sharing your experience and wisdom. There is a lot of food for thought in this thread. Let the hard work begin on the relationship.

But with divorce a possibility, are there steps to take on the financial side while we figure this thing out? I am not talking about hiding assets from her. I am thinking along the lines of minimizing damage to both of our financial futures:

-if we split our assets, our individual standard of living is bound to drop. Do we need to focus more on capital preservation at this stage? I would hate to be hit by a bear market and an asset split all at the same time.
-do we start cutting our budget now to preserve our capital?
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Good to do the work, but recognize that it will have no affect on her attitude since she has no interest in finances. Cutting the budget will not be received well.

FIREd said:
Well, yes, she did meet a new someone - but not another guy. She met a new (girl)friend 6 months ago and they really hit it off ("they are like sisters"). Anyway, the shadow of the "friend" has become ever present in our lives since. I have only met her twice and we hardly talked at all. But I did notice that my wife was acting differently around her. Anyway, I have it on good order that the new friend has plenty of bad things to say about me. So I have no doubt that she has a negative influence on our relationship even if my wife does not see it herself. But I can't say anything bad about the new GF without creating a huge fire storm. I usually fight hard to remove such toxic people from my life, but this one seems to stick like a tick. Clearly the GF is not responsible for all of our issues but she is pouring gasoline on the fire.
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OK so we got to the real issue. A "friendly" wedge in your relationship. When they are off on vacation, arrange a meeting with her spouse. He is obviously struggling with the same issue.

And if you cannot develop a cordial relationship with her friend, do so at your peril. This seems to be the cancer at work on your 17 year relationship.

Good luck and we look forward to hearing from you about any developments.
 
Katiek said:
I'm single and have never been married, so I have no relationship advice for you. I'm glad you have friends here and a place to seek advice, but just a caution not to write anything here you wouldn't want to see show up in a divorce proceeding. You never know how things will turn out.
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AHHH! This probably should be a new thread, but right on! My first cousin is currently involved a lawsuit that brought in every text, e-mail, social media post, phone call time of day and friend conversations.
 
FIREd said:
Well, yes, she did meet a new someone - but not another guy. She met a new (girl)friend 6 months ago and they really hit it off ("they are like sisters"). Anyway, the shadow of the "friend" has become ever present in our lives since.
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This is bad. Is her new friend also hip and cool...and likes to go out and do things...like bars, social gatherings, etc? If so...batten down the hatches. Get it under control through therapy or something...or the outcome will not be good.

Family friend just went through this. They were married for 30+ years. Although this was a case of her losing some weight and getting a face lift...then meeting a new girl friend that liked to go out and "party." That was the end of that marriage. Nasty divorce. She even came back to the house and dug up all the flowers in the mulched area...it was bad. Now she's remarried.
 
disrupt

If you do end up getting a divorce, know that having a 'good divorce' is possible. Let go of the past, look to the future, don't be vindictive, and look toward the future for new happiness opportunities. Our society only seems to acknowledge 'happily ever after' as being possible as part of a couple. That is BS. Be single, and do exactly what you want. It works.
 
FIREd said:
Well, yes, she did meet a new someone - but not another guy. She met a new (girl)friend 6 months ago and they really hit it off ("they are like sisters"). Anyway, the shadow of the "friend" has become ever present in our lives since. I have only met her twice and we hardly talked at all. But I did notice that my wife was acting differently around her. Anyway, I have it on good order that the new friend has plenty of bad things to say about me. So I have no doubt that she has a negative influence on our relationship even if my wife does not see it herself. But I can't say anything bad about the new GF without creating a huge fire storm. I usually fight hard to remove such toxic people from my life, but this one seems to stick like a tick. Clearly the GF is not responsible for all of our issues but she is pouring gasoline on the fire.
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I haven't read this thread in a couple days and then I came back and saw this. Oh does this sound familiar. My first wife had latched onto a "wild woman" friend. The relationship led to an introduction of another man and as they say the rest is history. Be careful.
 
97guns said:
If it does go that way just remember the attorney(s) is/are never your friend, your finances are the target and they’re shooting for the bullseye
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Truth. The best thing you can do is prevent as many sunrises from happening before everything is finalized. Lawyers are impressive when it comes to stalling, and so quick to tally up the billable hours.
 
street said:
My marriage has been one that is very different to most but it works for us. My interests are completely 180 degrees apart from hers. What she like I don't and what I like she doesn't. I do my thing she does hers and we are very happy and I really honestly can not remember if we have ever argued in our 36 years of marriage.

We trust each other we spend time together at our home and travel some together and go some places together but that is really the extent of our relationship spending time together. I can go where ever when ever and she encourages me to do so. I'm the same way with her if she wants to do or go places and I don't she does it and I have no problems with it at all. I love the outdoors and spend 100's of day in the back country without her. I also own a ranch and spend a lot of time there working it and enjoying the outdoors etc.. She doesn't go to the ranch and work it with me. She does a lot of volunteer work and that is one of her loves of life plus many other things she enjoys.

It works for us very very well. I have also felt very lucky to have a person like that to go through life with.

I always tell her I will see you on the flip flop. LOL
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Are you my husband? :LOL: Sounds a lot like our relationship. Took us a lot of years to get comfortable with this because it certainly doesn't seem to be the norm in our neck of the woods. We're edging up on 40 years.

Good luck to FIREd. I was divorced before this guy, and all I can really say is to be kind to yourself.
 
+1 to - a cordial divorce is possible. I have had two of them, neither involved an attorney, and custody was worked out between us. The cost of living took a hit, but the relationships healed more quickly and there was no financial devastation.

Nonetheless, FIREd, we all hope you can pick up the pieces. I second the Gottman method. If she is willing to really work at it, your marriage can certainly be saved.
 
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