rbmrtn
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I believe most insurance does not cover LASIK, as it is elective. I wonder if there is a connection to why the price has come down.
Why healthcare is killing us? greed would be on the short list.
Infuriating Paragraph About The Health Care System - Business Insider
As a Canadian i'll never understand why America tolerates such an outrageous health care system..
America isn't a of a single mind.
I'm no expert, but too many people and even politicians in the US are clueless about how the US health care "system" (it's not an organized system, that's one of the central issues) works to begin with, making 'agreement' unlikely. And they still hold on to old and mostly false impressions of how universal health care works in every other developed country. We're a third world country in terms of health care access with very high costs and middling outcomes...Not so simple of an answer.... most people do not agree on the current system, but disagree on how to fix it....
Uh huh.Not so simple of an answer.... most people do not agree on the current system, but disagree on how to fix it....
Yes, though I think it is as much a matter of differing priorities as lack of understanding.I'm no expert, but too many people and even politicians in the US are clueless about how the US health care "system" (it's not an organized system, that's one of the central issues) works to begin with, making 'agreement' unlikely.
Uh huh.
Yes, though I think it is as much a matter of differing priorities as lack of understanding.
I wouldn't be so sure. It sounds good when expressed as "lowering your prices" but not so good when expressed as "imposing drastic pay cuts on those angels willing to be nurses" and "big brother interfering in business' right to make profit".
The whole system is crazy. My internist thinks it's crazy. All the doctors have to employ people whose entire job is arguing about payments, with insurance companies.
i have been reading this thread with amusement. most people have hospital stays that are paid by insurance.
the hospital bills a gigantic amount. the insurance company says the contracted price is 20 percent of total bill. and that all the hospital gets, and covered person owes no more.
the hospital bills that ridiculous price to make sure they get every cent possible.
Just Google to see lots...Would be interesting to compare profits of hospitals or doctor compensation across the OECD countries. We know the total spending is much higher for the US but it would be interesting to know the components of that.
Of course, if they can pour billions into lobbying, you kind of have an idea of their profitability.
My point was quite the opposite - that they don't have the will, either, for the reason I specified.I am not sure what your point is, but if you believe healthcare consumers alone have the leverage to bring down runaway healthcare costs, I don't agree with that premise.
My point was quite the opposite - that they don't have the will, either, for the reason I specified.
Definitely; more to the point, acting as a voting populace, America doesn't have the collective will.America isn't of a single mind.
The United States is consistently ranked high in just about every category that could send someone to the doctor. Obesity, gun crimes, heart disease, depression, auto accidents, cancer, etc,etc. You want to cut hospital and doctor profits? Eat a salad now and then.
$8000 a year per American buys a lot of "lack of understanding".
The amount spent per capital on health care "buys" "lack"?
Interesting hypothesis.
I wouldn't be so sure. It sounds good when expressed as "lowering your prices" but not so good when expressed as "imposing drastic pay cuts on those angels willing to be nurses" and "big brother interfering in business' right to make profit".
My point was quite the opposite - that they don't have the will, either, for the reason I specified.
If only all medical procedures were elective and one could take one's time to shop around for them.
Without belaboring the point unduly, I think it is clear that those areas don't really compare to the many factors that make the healthcare market different from other markets.
These are encouraging cases of a decrease in direct health care costs, but they don't in themselves demonstrate the even bigger benefits of allowing consumers to shop not just for medical services but for medical insurance. When they can do that we'll see decreases in the even more important factors that drive up the cost of medical care in the US (e.g. failure to coordinate care, rewarding excessive procedures rather than improvements to patient health, etc)
eridanus said:This, too, but there's NO doubt that American doctors make more than their peers in other OECD countries where they have universal access and pay less per capita for equivalent health care.
If you think that doesn't have any effect, well, I don't know what to tell you.
Add in non-profit hospital profits and health insurance profits and we have a lot of people eating at the $8000/person trough. Including our obese selves.
No question, but you seem to also be implying that a thorough analysis would change the mind of enough of those currently holding to one of the strongly-held positions. I see no reason to believe that a thorough analysis will sway any significant number of people currently holding to any of the strongly-held positions. Those who adhere to the strongly-held positions would generally expect some portion of those beholden to any of the other strongly-held positions to capitulate, rather than moving from their own position.My point is that there is a huge incentive for those benefiting most from the current system to keep thorough analysis from driving real reform.
Misjudging the "enemy" is a sure-fire way of misunderstanding the reality you face, and thereby being unable to make any progress whatsoever. Believing that one's own interpretation of the available facts will naturally rain down on others, blessing those others with the specific epiphany desired is unreasonable. People hold to strongly-held positions for good reasons - you may not choose to consider them "good", but they do, and that's all that matters. The "logical" conclusions that one might expect be derived from a "thorough analysis" are just one additional strongly-held position, not some superseding position.Think about it - 20% of the largest economy in the world and after all this time we can only sit around and speculate about where the money goes and how it could be made more effective. I know that they say don't suspect malice when ignorance can explain something, but I suspect malice.
We'll have to agree to disagree about that. I'll be happy to refer you to some other forums where the prospect of imposing price controls such as you suggest will be vilified in no uncertain terms, by the vast majority of the "average Americans" posting on those forums.Oh, I do not see where getting our healthcare costs under control has anything to do with lack of will or the need to impose draconian cuts to Drs and nurses and I doubt most American's see it that way. Now in terms of insurance and drug companies profitability thats a different matter, and I do not believe many average American's will shed a tear over cost controls being imposed on them other than the lobbyists
Perhaps I cut my list too soon. We are also number one in prescription drug use. And number one in prescription drug abuse. And number one in weird crap like autoimmune disorders. We are a country whose citizens have multiple disease processes going on at once. This leads to over utilization of specialists who have higher fees.
“It’s the Prices Stupid”--Why Americans Pay More for Health Care - 2005 - Stories - News - Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public HealthHow do you go about cutting salaries. For instance by what factor do you multiply the nurses salary to come up with the surgeons?