Others reactions to your Financial Independence

[traineeinvestor]

No issues of this kind with family, friends or colleagues (a bit of "you'll be bored" and "what will you do all day").

Although I have not experienced it with the MFA faculty and students, I am a bit sensitive to the fact that all of these people are writers or aspiring writers and it is very very hard to make a living as a writer (a lot of the faculty are teaching in order to supplement what they make as writers and most of the students are working full or part time for financial reasons). So, I don't tell them I am retired - I tell them I am taking a career break for two years to pursue the MFA while doing some consulting (which is true - I think I must have worked for about four hours this month).

 

[Which Roger]

I've never acknowledged to others that I've achieved FI, and if the context calls for it, I imply that I might go back to w*rk at some point.

 

[lemming]

I opened the link,read the fluff and decided I am sorry she is making any money off her writing. It was pretty awful. Does that make me jealous or just cranky?

 

[truenorth418]

I have run into it. My brother's new wife has brought it up in front of others which has made me uncomfortable. She has also made light of my small condo, ironically since she does not seem to realize there is a direct connection between my LBYM lifestyle and my financial independence.

Years ago, when I was first putting my FIRE plan together, I told a few friends about my goals. They were overtly hostile. And this was years before I had any money saved, it was just a plan!

One of my best friends is a little baffled and I think envious. I don't flaunt my lifestyle, but the truth is I have not had a full time job in over two years. After awhile people begin to notice this and that I don't act worried about it in the least. So they figure it out eventually.

 

[youbet]

I imagine that when he hears me talking about my situation, he compares it to his own and feels a bit disappointed. I try not to mention it too much.

Many people are able to supress the urge to discuss their personal finances and life style choices and enjoy the company of others without going on and on about their own superior FIRE situation. But for some FIRE focused types, it's not an easy thing to do because they've become a tad bit obsessed with successfully completing the accumulation stage and moving on. But it can be done.

Many of our friends seem to be financially better off than us. They have nicer homes, travel more, drive nicer cars and, importantly, retired much earlier. We know this by observation. They don't talk about it and we appreciate that. The fact that they can be so gracious in this regard despite the fact they traveled the road to FIRE much more successfully than DW and myself is a key part of what makes them such good friends!

 

[Z3Dreamer]

Harley, I think the part of the story that I could not find in your post was: What is the family history? If Mom was very generous with you when she was married to the Colonel, then that would be different.

Or, if she let the Colonel handle everything that would be a reason for the bitterness. She is trying to shame you into taking charge so she doesn't have to worry about it. I have seen this where one spouse is oblivious to the finances, but when that spouse is gone they freak out.

 

[Danmar]

Many people are able to supress the urge to discuss their personal finances and life style choices and enjoy the company of others without going on and on about their own superior FIRE situation. But for some FIRE focused types, it's not an easy thing to do because they've become a tad bit obsessed with successfully completing the accumulation stage and moving on. But it can be done.

Many of our friends seem to be financially better off than us. They have nicer homes, travel more, drive nicer cars and, importantly, retired much earlier. We know this by observation. They don't talk about it and we appreciate that. The fact that they can be so gracious in this regard despite the fact they traveled the road to FIRE much more successfully than DW and myself is a key part of what makes them such good friends!

Good points. Seems to me talking about one's FI is in poor taste. I have found that Canadians in particular don't like talking about money. On the other hand where you live, cars you drive, trips you take, etc are a little hard to hide. This is why many people tend to make and keep friends who are in similar circumstances. Family, on the other hand, can be an issue. Avoidance probably becomes the best strategy.

 

[Midpack]

Good points. Seems to me talking about one's FI is in poor taste. I have found that Canadians in particular don't like talking about money. On the other hand where you live, cars you drive, trips you take, etc are a little hard to hide. This is why many people tend to make and keep friends who are in similar circumstances. Family, on the other hand, can be an issue. Avoidance probably becomes the best strategy.

"The richer your friends, the more it will cost you." Words to [-]live by[/-] bear in mind IMO...

About 5 years ago, we consciously ended a burgeoning friendship with another couple after a year or two, mostly because they were so much about conspicuous consumption and we lost interest in the game decades ago. We still see them from time to time and catch up, but I'm convinced we're both better off as acquaintances. YMMV

 

[Ronnieboy]

There will always be people poorer and richer than oneself. I am neither resentful of those richer, or worried about those poorer except insofar as how they try to change taxes with their votes. Ha

Still w*rking, but +1

 

[Meadbh]

Hmmm...
We avoided the problems, by living in a large tent in a pubic campground for the first five years of retirement. It actually worked to our advantage, since old friends and neighbors would come by with food, just to help out. Biggest problem was in not having a mailing address, but that worked out too, since it cut down on bills.

No envy there.

Your relatives must have thought you had really gone against the groin ........

 

[fritz]

We retired in our late 50's (retired for 4 yrs now). We live in a single family home in a gated retirement community in the Chicago metro area. We purchased it when I was 55 and still working, after moving back to where our children and DW's family still live. We have no pensions, and live off investments. No one knows our net worth, and it will remain that way until there's only one of us (when our two daughters will then be enlightened). We've always lived below our means, but have enjoyed your average Joe type traveling over the years. Drove rather unassuming vehicles all of our lives (own one 2013 Kia Forte now).

Given that background, I have to tell you that it is the relatives (siblings on both sides) that are always sizing us up at the rare family gatherings.

DW's sisters/sister-in-laws all got insight when they set up a girls lunch in February a few years ago and found out we were in Florida (spend Jan/Feb in Florida). We don't see them that often and we avoid talking about those areas of our personal lives when getting together. We also had our home phone number ported over to a cell phone, so you never know where we are when answering the phone now.

We don't get together with my side as we are somewhat scattered a bit. One of my younger brothers (who is doing quite well in life and a little flashy) invited us over after the holidays a couple of years ago. I stumbled a bit in responding due to having to admit to going to Florida Jan/Feb. His wife starting throwing out dates in January to get us to commit (my awkwardness in responding must have given the impression we didn't want to come over). When I continued and told them we would be leaving for Florida for Jan/Feb - he invited us to come over when we returned (his wife never said another word). We corresponded by email while we were in Florida due to some family issues, and he wanted us to let him know when we were back in town to set up us coming over. I did - it has never happened.

Since retiring early (we were the first in our families to retire, although most are older than us), both sides have become even more distant which saddens us. Friends from all walks of life accept us as we are/always were.

 

[MichaelB]

Your relatives must have thought you had really gone against the groin ........

<rimshot>

 

[pb4uski]

....Given that background, I have to tell you that it is the relatives (siblings on both sides) that are always sizing us up at the rare family gatherings. ....

I feel lucky in that all of our siblings are doing ok - but obviously some more than others. One of DW's brothers and his wife are very conspicuous consumers but he earns good money so I suppose they can afford it. One of my sisters has a nice big new fancy house but they are otherwise pretty frugal and another sister is frugal to a fault (actually probably more driven by BIL). Other than that they are all doing ok, I have no idea as to any of their NW or position to FIRE. I suspect they are curious as to how we are ER but I sense no noticeable envy other than SIL exclaiming rather loudly in a public place "But you're too young to retire!" when she learned that I was retiring but I think her reaction was more surprise then envy.

 

[WhoDaresWins]

My sister and all of my cousins are probably better off financially than I. Same is true of late husband's siblings. My true friends, the ones I can count on one hand, don't begrudge me my FI as nearly as I can tell. Of course, I could be clueless about what people are really thinking.

 

[photoguy]

Since retiring early (we were the first in our families to retire, although most are older than us), both sides have become even more distant which saddens us. Friends from all walks of life accept us as we are/always were.

I'm hoping (and planning) during ER to spend more time with family. As it is now, its pretty much impossible to see family for more than a few days a year (we are geographically distant).

 

[Danmar]

"The richer your friends, the more it will cost you." Words to [-]live by[/-] bear in mind IMO...

About 5 years ago, we consciously ended a burgeoning friendship with another couple after a year or two, mostly because they were so much about conspicuous consumption and we lost interest in the game decades ago. We still see them from time to time and catch up, but I'm convinced we're both better off as acquaintances. YMMV

Actually, I think the opposite might be true. I always pay for meals when I am with relatives. Their wallets seem permanently sewn in their pockets. They seem to think since we are the most successful that we should pay. With our friends we always have to fight for the bill. We can travel with our friends without paying for them. This would be out of the question with our family.Agree that ostentatious spending is distasteful. However, ostentation is in the eyes of the beholder. What seems ostentatious to you may not seem that way to someone else.

 

[Meadbh]

Actually, I think the opposite might be true. I always pay for meals when I am with relatives. Their wallets seem permanently sewn in their pockets. They seem to think since we are the most successful that we should pay. With our friends we always have to fight for the bill. We can travel with our friends without paying for them. This would be out of the question with our family.Agree that ostentatious spending is distasteful. However, ostentation is in the eyes of the beholder. What seems ostentatious to you may not seem that way to someone else.

That relationship with family sounds very awkward. Do you feel it is fair, or that they are taking advantage of you? Have your relatives learned this behaviour because you always step up to the plate? How would they react if you did asked for individual bills? If they visit your home(s) do they at least show their appreciation by bringing a small gift?

 

[brett]

At our very infrequent family gatherings, on my spouses side, I know that the relatives are trying to figure out how we did it, how much income we have, from where, and how much money we actually have. Comments about pensions, retiring allowances, investments...the usual for anyone with similar inquisitive relatives. I think some believe that we are living off the sale proceeds from our house. Some seem very interested in how much we spend on travel.

We are tight lipped about our financial situation by nature. It is better not to say anything. Absolutely no issue with friends.

 

[LinCella]

I'm not financially independent but I will have an excellent pension and paid medical. I get b.s. from people who think they are paying my pension and are pissed about it. Investments pay for most of my pension, I contributed and my work contributed a portion. I also worked for a lot less pay then my private company friends. I'll be comfortable but not rich and I will have to think before I purchase something or go on vacation. I also don't own a home - which they all do - because my income was low. I'll be able to eat, get a small place, enjoy life. But I won't be counting my piles,of money!

 

[LinCella]

I have a friend who is about to purchase a luxury condo in Santa Monica for 2.8 million. Everything he does is what he considers first class. I finally had to say I couldn't go to the places he wanted because I could not pay my end. Since we've been friends since we were teens he finally got it and we now do nice but less expensive things together. He's retired and he thinks when I retire we can go to lunch and such, but I can't afford the French Laundry like he can!

 

[Midpack]

"The richer your friends, the more it will cost you." Words to [-]live by[/-] bear in mind IMO...

About 5 years ago, we consciously ended a burgeoning friendship with another couple after a year or two, mostly because they were so much about conspicuous consumption and we lost interest in the game decades ago. We still see them from time to time and catch up, but I'm convinced we're both better off as acquaintances. YMMV

Actually, I think the opposite might be true. I always pay for meals when I am with relatives. Their wallets seem permanently sewn in their pockets. They seem to think since we are the most successful that we should pay. With our friends we always have to fight for the bill. We can travel with our friends without paying for them. This would be out of the question with our family.Agree that ostentatious spending is distasteful. However, ostentation is in the eyes of the beholder. What seems ostentatious to you may not seem that way to someone else.

While the "opposite may be true" with family (DW's family dynamic is similar), that may indeed be a different case than friends.

In your friends experience, are your friends richer than you are? If not, your example may not be applicable. It sounds like your friends pay their own way, and you pay your own way. Would you expect anything different if your friends were "richer" - if not, it would cost your more...

 

[mickeyd]

What seems ostentatious to you may not seem that way to someone else.

When growing up we had an uncle that was "rich" by our standards. They purchased a new Caddy every year, so they probably were.

He once said "We may be ostentatious, but in a plain way." I did not know what ostrntatious ment so I jotted it down and looked it up in the dictionary when I got home.

All part of my basic education.

 

[Gumby]

Sadly, I've been the "rich relative" since the day I graduated from USNA and started to pull in the big bucks as an Ensign, so I've had over 32 years to deal with these types of issues. The fact that I live over 1000 miles away from any other family member makes it easier.

 

[pb4uski]

I have a very good friend from high school who is doing ok, but not near as well as we have. When we do things together, sometimes he pays and sometimes I pay. I usually try to make up some excuse to pay more often since I know I can afford it easier than him (like when I was working I would us an excuse that I'm splurging because I just got my bonus last week - or some similar thing). While we implicitly know that there are significant differences in our wealth, we don't dwell on them - I don't mind paying more often because I know he doesn't expect me to.

 

[Danmar]

That relationship with family sounds very awkward. Do you feel it is fair, or that they are taking advantage of you? Have your relatives learned this behaviour because you always step up to the plate? How would they react if you did asked for individual bills? If they visit your home(s) do they at least show their appreciation by bringing a small gift?

Fair?? not sure. It really is pretty small dollars. I am by nature pretty generous so not a big deal and yes, I have a tendency to step up to the plate. if we asked for separate bills I think they would be shocked. I don't see them very often for reasons that are pretty obvious. My real complaint is they don't bother much with our 88 year old mother. My wife and I are her prime care givers despite the fact we are hardly ever in Toronto. Anyways you don't get to pick family.