Leisure or Just LAZY?

[ExFlyBoy5]

I had an interesting discussion a few days ago with an old high school friend who had difficulty understanding WHY I would choose to retire at such a young age. Of course, most of the points that we have all heard were brought up and most of my counter arguments were ignored, but it was interesting to me nonetheless. In summary, I would say that I lead a leisurely life but to the friend, that is nothing more than a politically-correct term for being just plain old lazy! In the end, I think the guy is just jealous, but we remain friends nonetheless.

At any rate, I came across this article a while back (it's from 2015) and it makes the argument that the life of leisure is more accepted now that it once was; personally, I am not so sure. I can't count how many times people have looked at me sideways because I only in my 40's and am not employed. So...what are your thought on lazy v. leisure?

And yes, I know this has been discussed at length, but hey...it's Monday and well...I have nothing else better to do!

A life of leisure now socially acceptable - The State Press

A cultural shift is occurring in our society that accounts for a change in our perception of leisure. A life of leisure is no longer criticized by the general public; it is commended. To find an alternative method of living your life, a method in which you need not work or have a job, is admirable to us.

Not all of us can afford to do this; however, we can still try. Whether we watch Netflix instead of doing homework or travel the world until our savings are gone, our attempts won’t go unnoticed. The trend is catching on.

 

[Nemo2]

“In the name of God, stop a moment, cease your work, look around you.”

Leo Tolstoy

 

[Midpack]

We're all wired differently, and it's probably a waste of time for an ant to convert a grasshopper or vice versa - why bother? I know people well into their 70's who can't quit working, but they're happy, it works for them. They think a life of leisure and those who choose that must be bored, depressed, lazy and unproductive.

I also know people who lead a life of leisure for the most part, and they're happy, it works for them. They think working/staying very busy and those who choose that must be stressed, needy and lacking a life outside work.

They may both be right. And so is most everyone who falls somewhere in between.

 

[pb4uski]

I would be the first one to admit that I am lazy.... it was a key to my success.

I recall an old Beetle Bailey comic strip where Beetle asks Sarge why Sarge always assigns Beetle the most difficult, nasty duties to perform.... Sarge responds along the lines of Beetle being the laziest guy in the troop so Sarge figures that Beetle will find the easiest ways to do it.

 

[DrRoy]

I have been sleeping better since I RE'd in March.

 

[RonBoyd]

Here's another interesting take:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...ialism-peter-thiel-wall-street-eric-weinstein

Sean Illing
A big part of this breakdown is technology, which you rightly describe as a child of capitalism. Is it possible the child of capitalism might also become its destroyer?

Eric Weinstein
It’s an important question. Since the Industrial Revolution, technology has been a helpful pursuer, chasing workers from the activities of lowest value into repetitive behaviors of far higher value. The problem with computer technology is that it would appear to target all repetitive behaviors. If you break up all human activity into behaviors that happen only once and do not reset themselves, together with those that cycle on a daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly basis, you see that technology is in danger of removing the cyclic behaviors rather than chasing us from cyclic behaviors of low importance to ones of high value.

Buckminster Fuller (a prominent American author and architect who died in 1983) said something to the effect of, "We're all born geniuses, but something in the process of living de-geniuses us."

Part of the question is, how do we disable an educational system that is uniformizing people across the socioeconomic spectrum in order to remind ourselves that the hotel maid who makes up our bed may in fact be an amateur painter? The accountant who does our taxes may well have a screenplay that he works on after the midnight hour? I think what is less clear to many of our bureaucrats in Washington is just how much talent and creativity exists through all walks of life.

What we don't know yet is how to pay people for those behaviors, because many of those screenplays and books and inventions will not be able to command a sufficiently high market price, but this is where the issue of some kind of hybridization of hypercapitalism and hypersocialism must enter the discussion.

 

[bradaz2488]

Even after 4 year of ER the common questions I get from most of my friends & some family when we get together is "how is retirement life?" and "what do you do all day?" I never seem to fully satisfy them with the answers I give and it sometimes make me feel like I'm lazy or have given up on achieving things in life. I understand that retiring at 49 is very unconventional and I would probably ask the same questions if I was on the other end of things. I find that most people hate their j*b and would retire in a second if they were FI. I do have few friends that like what they do and have no plans to ever retire even though they are FI. I do not know anyone who "truly" loves their j*b. I believe most of the "negative" comments I get about being retired so early are due to jealousy and they have to justify to themselves why they will probably have to w*rk until they get asked to leave... Do I have days where I feel lazy and unproductive.. Hell yes, but I'm way happier then when I was w*rking at my MegaCorp... For me, being happy and free to do what I want to do is a great achievement in life and I'm very proud of myself even if most people may think I'm just being lazy.

 

[euro]

I say: let him keep working until he turns 80. Someone has to fund my SS. If all he wants in return is to call you "lazy" then that's ok

 

[easysurfer]

Leisure or Just LAZY? For me, answer is yes and yes .

 

[ls99]

If I could have found a job that let me do all things I do in retirement, I'd still be w*rking.

 

[JustCurious]

We're all wired differently, and it's probably a waste of time for an ant to convert a grasshopper or vice versa - why bother? I know people well into their 70's who can't quit working, but they're happy, it works for them. They think a life of leisure and those who choose that must be bored, depressed, lazy and unproductive.

I also know people who lead a life of leisure for the most part, and they're happy, it works for them. They think working/staying very busy and those who choose that must be stressed, needy and lacking a life outside work.

They may both be right. And so is most everyone who falls somewhere in between.

I agree with this.

I recently spoke to an 84 year old attorney who works full time in a government position and I asked him why he was still working because it was obvious that he is not doing it for the money. He said that he never wants to retire because he would be bored, and he wants to keep himself engaged in work because he likes what he does, and he said "Most people who I know who retired were dead within 5 years." He implied that when you retire, you start a slow decline to death and he does not want to do that. He seemed happy and it did not seem to me that he was trying to justify working as a financial need. I told him that when I retire I plan to travel and keep busy with hobbies and volunteering, and his response was that he would quickly get bored with that.

On the other hand, a member of my family is basically retired in his late 40's and lives a very frugal life in a rural area and appears to be very happy. On the outside it might appear that he is lazy, but I know he remains fairly active (relatively speaking) doing things like gardening and growing his own vegetables and keeping up with maintenance and work around the house and large-ish property and being a house-husband to his working wife.

I think both are happy, they are just wired differently.

 

[Sojourner]

So...what are your thought on lazy v. leisure?

And yes, I know this has been discussed at length, but hey...it's Monday and well...I have nothing else better to do!

A life of leisure now socially acceptable - The State Press

Just read the article, and I have to say it stuck me as a bit oddly worded and slightly incoherent. The author cites no sources for making the vague and dubious claim that a life of leisure is now socially acceptable. I think the comments and raised eyebrows most of us have had when people find out we are ER is pretty compelling evidence to the contrary.

With regard to "living a life of leisure" just being a euphemism for "living like a lazy bum", I think that's only true if you buy into the idea that people (well, working age adults) are only inherently worthwhile if they are being productive in the classic sense. This worldview places much more value on someone going to a factory every day and helping to churn out airplane parts or cardboard boxes than someone who stays at home tending their garden or reading a book or taking their dog for a walk. Clearly, as a society, we need for most people to go to factories and produce stuff rather than stay at home entertaining their dogs, so I think this is why some people view early retirement as a bad or "lazy" thing. Similar, I think, to how some people view the conscious decision not to have children as bad. Really, when you boil it down, it might just be that anything off the beaten path is going to be frowned upon and misunderstood by most people who are, for whatever reason, firmly and solidly entrenched on the beaten path for the foreseeable future. Basic human psychology, I think.

 

[ncbill]

I recently spoke to an 84 year old attorney who works full time in a government position and I asked him why he was still working because it was obvious that he is not doing it for the money. He said that he never wants to retire because he would be bored... I told him that when I retire I plan to travel and keep busy with hobbies and volunteering, and his response was that he would quickly get bored with that.

sounds like my old accountant.

never married/no kids, partner at his firm, retires early 60s, but less than 6 months later is back to work full-time, though at another firm located far enough away to satisfy his non-compete agreement.

versus a relative who retired from a physically demanding, blue-collar job in his early 50s, but has stayed busy over the past 25+ years with his hands, & now probably makes more selling (part-time) on craigslist than he gets from his pension + SS.

 

[RunningBum]

I guess this topic is related to the fairly recent one asking if people care what others think about them. I do care, somewhat, but when someone tries to place their own values on my life and make judgements about me, I stop caring what they think. I can be friends with that person, as long as they don't persist in that topic.

 

[flintnational]

A therapist we know says don't use the term "lazy" to describe your well deserved down time. He believes lazy has to many negative connotations. So I vote for leisure. Either way, I ain't doin nothin.

FN

 

[Walt34]

So I vote for leisure. Either way, I ain't doin nothin.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

After we went to a Styx concert this summer, our new favorite song line is, "I've got nothing to do and all day to do it" from their Too Much Time on My Hands song.

 

[Dawg52]

I'm lazy. Thank God I was able to retire early.

 

[MRG]

I would be the first one to admit that I am lazy.... it was a key to my success.

I recall an old Beetle Bailey comic strip where Beetle asks Sarge why Sarge always assigns Beetle the most difficult, nasty duties to perform.... Sarge responds along the lines of Beetle being the laziest guy in the troop so Sarge figures that Beetle will find the easiest ways to do it.

I w*rked for a guy that knew that wisdom and imparted it to me. I taught others. We would refer to " good lazy" vs "bad lazy".

Good lazy means you work hard to avoid w*rk. Automating tasks is a great example.

Bad lazy is what gives being lazy a bad name.


This is my favorite of all time; the first time I heard "Lazy" it was awesome as has every other time.

https://youtu.be/STFWapwyqMo



You're lazy just stay in bed
You're lazy just stay in bed
You don't want no money
You don't want no bread

If you're drowning you don't clutch no straw
If you're drowning you don't clutch no straw
You don't want to live you don't want to cry no more

Well my trying ain't done no good
I said my trying ain't done no good
You don't make no effort no not like you should

Lazy you just stay in bed
Lazy you just stay in bed
You don't want no money
You don't want no bread

From:https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/deeppurple/lazy.html

 

[Amethyst]

Other than this forum, I don't know any man who voluntarily retired (and didn't seek follow-on employment) in his 40's.

If I did know such a man personally, I might ask him what he does with his time, but I would say it in such a way that he'd know I was simply interested - not incredulous, judgmental, or otherwise negative. If he said he was ER I would be suitably admiring. It is a big achievement. It would not be any of my business how he got there, and I would not ask.

I do know a few women who got married, and quit. They haven't said anyone asks them how they fill their days. Everyone seemingly just accepts that women have plenty to do all day (kids or no kids) and somebody to pay the bills.

 

[Nightcap]

I'm sure you've seen the meme about why it's harder for older people to get a job.

Interviewer: What would you say was your biggest character flaw.
Elder: Honesty.
Interviewer: I don't think honesty is a character flaw.
Elder: I don't give a damn what you think!

That's basically me. Hallelujah, I'm a bum.

 

[aaronc879]

If you are in your 40's and retired and are able to support yourself then it's Leisure. If you are in your 40's and not working and living on welfare it's lazy(generally).

 

[Sojourner]

Interviewer: What would you say was your biggest character flaw.
Elder: Honesty.
Interviewer: I don't think honesty is a character flaw.
Elder: I don't give a damn what you think!

That's the funniest thing I've come across in a while!

 

[O2Bfree]

Why leisure or lazy? If I've worked and lived within my means for years such that I can retire early, and I feel fulfilled without working, why would I cling to a job I don't need to make more money that I don't need? Why wouldn't I step aside and let someone else have the job and the money it generates, maybe someone younger who's trying to provide for his or her family?

So why not "generous"?

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

I say: let him keep working until he turns 80. Someone has to fund my SS. If all he wants in return is to call you "lazy" then that's ok

+1