Update on Cord Cutting (Cable TV) 2017 - 2020

[dirtbiker]

I'm not sure what the difference is. I've read that many sites stream at 30 frames per second, which comes out choppy for anything with fast motion such as running, throwing a ball, shooting a puck, etc. 60 FPS is a lot better. Maybe some of it is consumer hardware. Even if it is, I'd say that's still a case for trying it out before committing. And maybe plan on upgrading your sticks.

This is the biggest frustration I have with the cord-cutting story. It's so easy, everyone says, just make sure your internet is at least 2MB, or 5MB--changes through the years with HD, then 4K. But then you try it, and it doesn't work well, and somebody says, oh, you really need 25K. BS like that, it's all so easy, but the requirements keep changing, always a little bit higher than what you have when you find out it just doesn't work that well.

There's a lot more than just getting X vs Y number of channels, or more specifically the channels you want, for $Q or $Z/month. There's also DVR, specifically how long you can keep those recordings; whether you can skip commercials; whether you can watch things live or close to live, and so on.

Yeah, like anything, what seems great usually has some catches. I'd like to decrease some of my monthly expenditures, and the cable I don't use is just low hanging fruit. My cable/internet monthly bill is $230/month. If I drop the cable, it's down to $100/month. Fortunately internet is very good where I live. I currently have 500 mb/s service, and the lowest I can even opt for is I think 40 mb/s.

It's funny how between internet and phone I'm spending close to $400 per month, when it wasn't that long ago those bills didn't even exist for me, and I could care less!

 

[RonBoyd]

We have a Tablo that works the same way. The antenna plugs into the Tablo and the Roku has a Tablo "channel" we use to watch/record OTA TV.

I get it. I have a Tablo Quad (as well as the HDHomeRun Computer App). So the TIVO connects to the antenna and acts as a tuner.

The Tablo (and App) connects to the Network (wired/Wi-Fi) and, then, sends the signal to a client (in my case ROKU/Shield) for display on the TV. Is that the same with the TIVO OTA?

Is TIVO still a subscription service?

 

[timo2]

I'm not sure what the difference is. I've read that many sites stream at 30 frames per second, which comes out choppy for anything with fast motion such as running, throwing a ball, shooting a puck, etc. 60 FPS is a lot better. Maybe some of it is consumer hardware. Even if it is, I'd say that's still a case for trying it out before committing. And maybe plan on upgrading your sticks.

That jumpiness has been a big issue for us. DW did agree to do a free trial on FUBO last month, and we specifically were looking for jumpiness on football and skating sports. FUBO was fine. It lacked a channel that DW likes to DVR, so we passed on it, but I was surprised that it wasn't as jumpy as I'm used to with streamed sports.

 

[Cobra9777]

I'm not a huge sports fanatic, but I follow a few college and pro teams. I watch at least 2 football games and 2-3 MLB games each week. I watch a lot of other games and other teams using the 10-15 minute recaps on YouTube, which is a handy way to keep up without a major time commitment.

I have no issue whatsoever watching live sports on PS Vue. No buffering, delay, or jumpiness of any kind. We have Frontier FiOS 50/50 fiber internet service. Certainly not a ton of bandwidth by today's standards, but very stable and the latency on fiber is extremely low. PS Vue is running on a Fire TV Cube, which is hardwired to the router (no WiFi). The picture is 720p, but to my eye it looks exactly the same as HD on cable.

 

[mpeirce]

The Tablo (and App) connects to the Network (wired/Wi-Fi) and, then, sends the signal to a client (in my case ROKU/Shield) for display on the TV. Is that the same with the TIVO OTA?

Is TIVO still a subscription service?

Unlike the Tablo, the tivo connects to your tv via hdmi cable. To get tivo on another remote tv you get the tivo mini. The tivo bolt streams to the mini over your network (Ethernet or moca, not WiFi) then the mini connects to the tv via hdmi.

The Tablo doesn’t have hdmi. It relies on an app in an Apple TV or Roku or whatever to connect to your tv.

Both tivo and Tablo sell directory services subscriptions.

 

[RunningBum]

That jumpiness has been a big issue for us. DW did agree to do a free trial on FUBO last month, and we specifically were looking for jumpiness on football and skating sports. FUBO was fine. It lacked a channel that DW likes to DVR, so we passed on it, but I was surprised that it wasn't as jumpy as I'm used to with streamed sports.

I'm not a huge sports fanatic, but I follow a few college and pro teams. I watch at least 2 football games and 2-3 MLB games each week. I watch a lot of other games and other teams using the 10-15 minute recaps on YouTube, which is a handy way to keep up without a major time commitment.

I have no issue whatsoever watching live sports on PS Vue. No buffering, delay, or jumpiness of any kind. We have Frontier FiOS 50/50 fiber internet service. Certainly not a ton of bandwidth by today's standards, but very stable and the latency on fiber is extremely low. PS Vue is running on a Fire TV Cube, which is hardwired to the router (no WiFi). The picture is 720p, but to my eye it looks exactly the same as HD on cable.

Good to know. Both services appear to steam with 60fps for at least some networks.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/fubotv-channels-pricing-features/
Unfortunately Fubo does not carry ESPN. That's an eliminator for me.

https://www.techhive.com/article/31...er-second-sports-in-streaming-tv-bundles.html

Sony’s PlayStation Vue fares better, supporting 60 frames per second on the same channels and programs that cable does. But there is one odd exception: Amazon’s Fire TV Stick only streams Vue at 30 frames per second.

That's a 2 year old article so hopefully that's changed. The Fire Stick is what I've gone with throughout my house.

 

[RunningBum]

A little more current info on some 60 FPS support.

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/what-streaming-services-offer-60fps-we-answer-your-questions/

Youtube TV looks like the best, and is probably the best fit for me. [-]Unfortunately right now it looks like you have to sideload it to get it on the Firestick. That's supposed to change sometime this year.[/-] Never mind, it looks like it's allowed now. I tried it on one TV and I don't know if I have YouTube or YouTube TV. Looks like YouTube. This streaming stuff sure is simple.

 

[RonBoyd]

Unlike the Tablo, the tivo connects to your tv via hdmi cable. To get tivo on another remote tv you get the tivo mini. The tivo bolt streams to the mini over your network (Ethernet or moca, not WiFi) then the mini connects to the tv via hdmi.

The Tablo doesn’t have hdmi. It relies on an app in an Apple TV or Roku or whatever to connect to your tv.

But a TIVO Mini seems to be pretty costly -- https://www.tivo.com/shop/mini -- from $179 up to $689 depending upon how many units (TVs, that is) you connect. Tablo (after the device purchase) is free no matter how many TV you watch on... and no matter where you are (as long as you have access to your LAN, even remotely). What am I missing?

Both tivo and Tablo sell directory services subscriptions.

Yeah, this is quite common to charge from $25-$35 a year for a 14 day EPG subscription. And, almost all seem to pass this along. I am unsure how to get out of that -- currently, I have to pay Schedule Direct $25 to get14 day schedules on SageTV and Emby. I, also, pay Tablo $35 for the same thing. SiliconDust seems to provide it Gratis, however. Maybe that will shake out and only one service will eventually provide this data but until then...

 

[mpeirce]

What am I missing?

Not much. TiVo is premium priced over the neweroptions. We've had TiVo since the early days (almost 20 years!) and their user experience has always been good.

In the last year or so we started to look around and have been using Tablo to try it out. We like Tablo a lot - it has a few rough edges, but generally works very well. Their automatic commercial skipping top notch, but doesn't apply to news :-( TiVo automatic commercial skipping makes you press a button each time - Tablo does not.

A couple of things drove us from TiVo. The mini we have doesn't have the CPU/GPU power to run the "new UI" and it's a bit painful to use. We can't get TV signals downstairs, so we need to use the mini. Maybe the "new model" mini's work better, but I didn't know.

Another thing was their lack of Apple TV app - I don't like switching inputs (it means I need to keep using the TV remote, too many remotes already!) And also, TiVo doesn't work on WiFi - their steaming is high bandwidth (they seem to use older, less efficient compression standards).

Our main TV has been running Tablo (Tablo upstairs where it can get a good signal with the Apple TV downstairs) for a few months now and we expect to continue using it. It's good enough and mostly better than TiVo for our use.

We still have the TiVo Bolt in our bedroom for watching the 10PM news. We paid the lifetime subscription (well worth it - we've had it awhile) so there is not extra cost to keep using it. At some point (when the Bolt dies), we'll just get another Apple TV and view the Tablo as well.

Both TiVo and Tablo support viewing on iOS and iPadOS. TiVo is actually better, as the Tablo app is a low effort "web app in a wrapper" and many features aren't there like commercial skipping. Both allow you go access them remotely - so you can be in a hotel on the road and watch content from home on an iPhone or iPad.

I really like having all our content route through the Apple TV. No input switching. Only one remote needed. We watch OTA TV using the Tablo app, also the Netflix app, Amazon Prime App. HBO Now app (sometimes). We won't use the Apple "TV App" since Netflix still doesn't support it. Maybe some day it'll get good enough to be useful.

 

[JoeWras]

A little more current info on some 60 FPS support.

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/what-streaming-services-offer-60fps-we-answer-your-questions/

Youtube TV looks like the best, and is probably the best fit for me.

Me too. I watch local NHL hockey and it has to be 60 fps. I've seen the 30 and it sucks.


One problem is NBCSports is not listed at 60. Could be a problem.

 

[JoeWras]

Rokus get regular software updates. So far we've been using ours > 2.5 years without issue. Don't really know how long they will last. We just have the cheapo streaming sticks.

Went to WallyWorld and got a competitively priced Roku mid level model (Premium) instead of the Ultra.

So far, VERY PLEASED. Thanks for the suggestions from all. Simply put, my old Firestick simply sucks bird cage droppings. It can't handle the load demanded by the apps. A UI that responds 5 seconds after a button push is not usable.

The Roku is immediately responsive with all the apps I tried. We love the omniscient search capability. Prime Video works better on the Roku than the Firestick. So, time to recycle some old hardware.

Roku pushed some apps to us with free shows, and we pulled up some interesting old shows. Nice.

So far my only confusion is how to get decent rewind or fast forward capability. I miss the "fast frame by frame" rewind that my DVR gives. It seems you can't "see" the frames go by, you just have to look at the timers. Am I missing something?

 

[RonBoyd]

We like Tablo a lot - it has a few rough edges, but generally works very well. Their automatic commercial skipping top notch, but doesn't apply to news :-(

Our main TV has been running Tablo (Tablo upstairs where it can get a good signal with the Apple TV downstairs) for a few months now and we expect to continue using it.

I like the Tablo Quad a lot. SageTV is still my #1 but Tablo is quite close to matching it. That SageTV has not had a significant upgrade in ten years and still outshines all others always surprises me.

The one advantage that Tablo does have is that it doesn't rely on a "STB." SageTV has a proprietary Client that is connected to a single TV. (Although recently someone created an App for Shield that come close to solving that problem.) Tablo, on the other hand, uses widely available devices (ROKU, Shield, etc.) as a Client so it can be watched on many devices at once. All one needs is Internet Access and you can access the Tablo device anywhere.

 

[bobandsherry]

When I see costs like these, I'm fine with the $151 or so we pay for AT&T U-Verse + 1000 Mbps Internet on a one-year plan (two rooms with DVR).

As it is, any talk of cutting the cord just annoys the heck out of my DW. Sometimes, you have to pay a little extra in life just to keep things simple. If a true and cost-effective a la carte provider for TV happens in the future, she might be interested in that.

Agreed, I pay $83 with taxes for cable, hundreds of channels, just not premium like HBO. It does include phone. My HOA fee is $37 and includes 100/100. I have TiVo that I purchased 7 years ago, full DVR and mutliroom to 3 bedroom. I have free Netflix through TMobile. I have Amazon Prime/Video already included with my Prime. I'm ok paying a few bucks more for a great user experience.

 

[MissMolly]

Went to WallyWorld and got a competitively priced Roku mid level model (Premium) instead of the Ultra.

So far, VERY PLEASED. Thanks for the suggestions from all. Simply put, my old Firestick simply sucks bird cage droppings. It can't handle the load demanded by the apps. A UI that responds 5 seconds after a button push is not usable.

The Roku is immediately responsive with all the apps I tried. We love the omniscient search capability. Prime Video works better on the Roku than the Firestick. So, time to recycle some old hardware.

Roku pushed some apps to us with free shows, and we pulled up some interesting old shows. Nice.

So far my only confusion is how to get decent rewind or fast forward capability. I miss the "fast frame by frame" rewind that my DVR gives. It seems you can't "see" the frames go by, you just have to look at the timers. Am I missing something?

Seeing the frames seems to depend on what you're watching. I've been watching Hulu a lot this summer since nothing is on OTA TV and I can see the individual frames. I believe when I watch things recorded on the Tablo I can see individual frames. But I'm pretty sure on Netflix I cannot.

 

[JoeWras]

Seeing the frames seems to depend on what you're watching. I've been watching Hulu a lot this summer since nothing is on OTA TV and I can see the individual frames. I believe when I watch things recorded on the Tablo I can see individual frames. But I'm pretty sure on Netflix I cannot.

Ah, OK. That makes sense.

I see a quick "rebuffer" pause when using FF/RW.

I'll chalk up a better FF/RW as one benefit of having the show in the buffer on the DVR, over the just-in-time of a stream.

I don't have Youtube TV yet. I'm waiting for fall sports to show up before signing up. It will be interesting to see how FF/RW works with the cloud based DVR.

In any case, this is not a show-stopper though.

 

[pb4uski]

Me too. I watch local NHL hockey and it has to be 60 fps. I've seen the 30 and it sucks.


One problem is NBCSports is not listed at 60. Could be a problem.

I watched the Stanley Cup playoffs on NBCSN and it was fine.

 

[JoeWras]

I watched the Stanley Cup playoffs on NBCSN and it was fine.

Thanks, that's good to hear.


YoutubeTV is definitely moving up the list.

 

[JoeWras]

Question for cord cutters who have also cut the phone cord, but still decided to have a central house phone.

What are you using? Ooma? Magic jack? Others? What is best?

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Question for cord cutters who have also cut the phone cord, but still decided to have a central house phone.

What are you using? Ooma? Magic jack? Others? What is best?

We have Vonage, but that's partially because back when we switched to VoIP, they were the only one with E911, something my partner insisted on. They also did have better call-handling features (forwarding, simultaneous ring, transcribed voicemail), but that's probably no longer the case. I found it pretty simple to rewire the phone wiring to accommodate Vonage, just detach the wire coming in, then connect the ATA to any phone jack.

 

[RunningBum]

Question for cord cutters who have also cut the phone cord, but still decided to have a central house phone.

What are you using? Ooma? Magic jack? Others? What is best?

Not sure if you are looking for something like this, but for awhile I used this bluetooth device that ties up to 3 cell phones into the house phone wiring. If someone calls your cell phone and you are at home, it can ring on any phone in the house.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018NWQPK

The problem was a second or two delay from when you pick up and when you could talk. I'd forget and answer "Hello?" and people wouldn't hear that, so most phone calls started off with confusion. Voice quality was so-so too. I finally decided I could just carry my phone around with me, especially once my signal got a little more reliable and I didn't have to keep it in a booster cradle.

 

[camfused]

Question for cord cutters who have also cut the phone cord, but still decided to have a central house phone.

What are you using? Ooma? Magic jack? Others? What is best?

We have Google Voice with an OBI SIP adapter. $0/month, works great, screens morons out.

 

[bUU]

It's a fine line isn't it? One of the problems is a lot of the internet providing companies are in the cable business too and they always know there is more then one way to skin a cat.

And given the prevailing environment, they always will.

Although we use a wireless internet provider ( our only real choice) and pay 80 a month for 25M. they literally don't care if you stream 24/7.

Metered service is always going to be the gold standard from the standpoint of the providers. As things tend toward a steady state, that steady state will always be toward that, either directly as metered service, or indirectly, as what is effectively metered service by way of a discrete block of data to start with and then some kind of additional conditions that significantly degrade service beyond some point.

 

[bUU]

Not enough info for readers to judge. Unlimited data is normally a wireless term, is the user watching TV on a mobile cellular connection? Or is he/she talking about an internet data cap?

LMGTFY: "Suddenlink Communications is an American telecommunications subsidiary of Altice USA which specializes in cable television, high-speed internet, broadband phone, home security and advertising."

 

[bUU]

1TB should be enougn, but one key factor is HD vs SD programming.

vs. 4K.

 

[steelyman]

What are you using? Ooma? Magic jack? Others? What is best?

I signed up with Ooma before moving to NC and have been happy with it. Currently I’m using it without its Telo (the box you get when you start service) but am thinking of reconnecting the Telo in order to use existing home phone wiring. Ooma provides instruction/how-to for that:

https://support.ooma.com/home/distributing-ooma-to-all-telephone-jacks/

The downside is service interruption, especially events like Hurricanes Florence and Michael. Can’t recall which but one knocked out service for about a day.