Plight of older people

[aja8888]

My parents' message was "anger, ignorance, and alcohol." Reinforced with Norman Rockwell inspired aphorisms such as: "Leave me the hell alone" "So? What da hell ya want from me?" "Oh just do what ya do, I don't care." "Whatta ya wanna do that for?" (No matter what your ideas or plans were.) And the ever-popular: "Not now, I'm drinkin'" There were others. Often involving the droppings of various animals.


I was an honors graduate from high school too. Don't know how or why I did that. Not one of those "molders of young minds" and "Shapers of Americas Young Adults" (friggin' useless teachers/counselors) ever pulled me aside to say a single word about college, the financing thereof, the difference between college and any alternatives, or what my plans might be.My plans were to just keep runningand take what I could get because there were no alternatives. Just because alternatives might have existed in someone else's opinion, doesn't mean that therefore I had unfettered access to all of them thus by definition guaranteeing a better life. You have to know they're there and see them as obtainable. See yourself in them.



Lecturing people about choices and opportunity as if they were bananas at the supermarket just put a bunch in the cart and enjoy, is de facto pure B.S. for those who actually know more than "having mine".


I come from immigrants myself, btw so I don't respond to lectures from that crowd either.



I know. Too much information

Sound like your parents were related to mine. I was lucky to get through high school and my parents didn't even come to my graduation. College? What was that?

 

[Rustic23]

I come from a middle class family. 5 kids. 3 of us paid for our own way through college. Education was valued. I have a close friend since HS. We both have college degrees. He has little or no savings, and still works. Difference? Life choices. He had 8 jobs in his first 5 year of work, and I can't count how many since. I could see it coming, In fact I warned him that if he kept job hopping we would become unemployable. Last time we talked, about 15 years ago he said "I got to get a job that really pays". He was or has not been successful.

There use to be a TV show that had the line "there are 8 million stories in the city and this is one of them" I think the elderly poor may be like this. There is most likely a story for each one.

 

[ls99]

IMHO regardless of family circumstances, we make choices. Then live with the consequences.

My father died when I was 19 months old, mother worked as a cleaning woman, could barely read or write.
I am an immigrant, got drafted in 67, beat the draft date by volunteering, made the best of whatever came my way then and later, and still. Comfortably retired.

I still live by the adage, suck it up and get on with life.

 

[NW-Bound]

Reading in the home is also important. My parents weren't educated, but they were readers who produced three kids who love to read. The house was always full of magazines, library books, and drugstore paperbacks. We read stories aloud after dinner. I, the youngest, didn't start school till nearly age 6 (due to a late birthday), but had long since demanded that my mother teach me to read and write.

I still remember my parents privately criticizing a couple they socialized with for having nothing to read in their very nice home. Not a newspaper, not a book on the shelves, because the lady of the house deemed them "dust-gatherers." The topic arose in the car on the way home, because the LOTH had mentioned that her teenage son and daughter were doing poorly in school and she was afraid they might drop out.

+1

A big part of learning is reading. It's hard to learn anything if you don't read. You've got to love to read.

 

[EastWest Gal]

My parents' message was "anger, ignorance, and alcohol." Reinforced with Norman Rockwell inspired aphorisms such as: "Leave me the hell alone" "So? What da hell ya want from me?" "Oh just do what ya do, I don't care." "Whatta ya wanna do that for?" (No matter what your ideas or plans were.) And the ever-popular: "Not now, I'm drinkin'" There were others. Often involving the droppings of various animals.


I was an honors graduate from high school too. Don't know how or why I did that. Not one of those "molders of young minds" and "Shapers of Americas Young Adults" (friggin' useless teachers/counselors) ever pulled me aside to say a single word about college, the financing thereof, the difference between college and any alternatives, or what my plans might be.My plans were to just keep runningand take what I could get because there were no alternatives. Just because alternatives might have existed in someone else's opinion, doesn't mean that therefore I had unfettered access to all of them thus by definition guaranteeing a better life. You have to know they're there and see them as obtainable. See yourself in them.



Lecturing people about choices and opportunity as if they were bananas at the supermarket just put a bunch in the cart and enjoy, is de facto pure B.S. for those who actually know more than "having mine".


I come from immigrants myself, btw so I don't respond to lectures from that crowd either.



I know. Too much information

You were an honors graduate because doing well in school helped your self-esteem. You sound like a very resilient person. You overcame your home situation by doing well in school. You did that for yourself. I did well in school and I met the school counselor to ask about scholarships. Coming from a lower middle class school district, the counselor had virtually no time for me, even though I was the only Merit Scholarship finalist in my school that year. Teachers never advised us on anything for success after high school.

 

[Gumby]

Coming from a lower middle class school district, the counselor had virtually no time for me, even though I was the only Merit Scholarship finalist in my school that year. Teachers never advised us on anything for success after high school.

In my high school, you only got to talk to a guidance counselor because your probation officer called up and said you missed your mandatory meeting or because you were pregnant and needed to get hooked up with the appropriate social services. To be fair to the counselors, they simply had no time for anything else. In fact, so few kids ever went to college from my high school that they didn't bother to administer the SAT. I had to drive to a another, richer town to take it. The fact that my mom and dad quit school on the days they turned 15 and 17, respectively, meant I couldn't get guidance from them either. I had one and only one chance to make it out, and I grabbed it with both hands, but I'm certain that the vast majority of my classmates went absolutely nowhere. That could easily have been me and my life would be totally different now.

 

[Amethyst]

Same here, but I always thought the counselors ignored me because I was a blue-collar kid in a high-end white-collar high school district. The other kids were always talking about getting into the college of their choice, whereas I was under the impression I wasn't going to college at all. The Merit Finalist thing was a complete surprise, and all I remember was the letdown when I didn't actually get a scholarship.

As an older person who's been through a lot, I have concluded that darn near everything in life is one or another species of confidence game. Yes, you have to do the right thing at the right time, work hard at something, stay out of the worse sorts of trouble. Being trustworthy can also pay off (it did for me). But exhibiting confidence (whether natural or feigned) is the great thing. I didn't believe that when I was younger, and missed chances because of it.

Coming from a lower middle class school district, the counselor had virtually no time for me, even though I was the only Merit Scholarship finalist in my school that year. Teachers never advised us on anything for success after high school.

 

[tmm99]

In my high school, you only got to talk to a guidance counselor because your probation officer called up and said you missed your mandatory meeting or because you were pregnant and needed to get hooked up with the appropriate social services. To be fair to the counselors, they simply had no time for anything else. In fact, so few kids ever went to college from my high school that they didn't bother to administer the SAT. I had to drive to a another, richer town to take it. The fact that my mom and dad quit school on the days they turned 15 and 17, respectively, meant I couldn't get guidance from them either. I had one and only one chance to make it out, and I grabbed it with both hands, but I'm certain that the vast majority of my classmates went absolutely nowhere. That could easily have been me and my life would be totally different now.

Gumby,
What was so different about you that made you pursue far more than what you saw in front of you?
What made you think past your parents/schoo/environment?

 

[Gumby]

Gumby,
What was so different about you that made you pursue far more than you saw in front of you?
What made you think past your parents/school/environment?

Darned if I know. I just always felt, from the time I was a very young child, that I was different from all the people around me. I'm sure it helped that I learned to read extremely early. I still don't know how that happened, but I cannot recall ever being unable to read. By the time I was four, I had my own library card and regularly went there on my own. (the first book I ever checked out was about spiders). I was an absolute fiend about reading and devoured everything I could get. From that, I discovered a wider world and saw no reason why I should not be part of it.

 

[tmm99]

Darned if I know. I just always felt, from the time I was a very young child, that I was different from all the people around me. I'm sure it helped that I learned to read extremely early. I still don't know how that happened, but I cannot recall ever being unable to read. By the time I was four, I had my own library card and regularly went there on my own. (the first book I ever checked out was about spiders). I was an absolute fiend about reading and devoured everything I could get. From that, I discovered a wider world and saw no reason why I should not be part of it.

Very interesting story, Gumby. Thank you for sharing. I thought maybe you had a friend whose family was different that you often frequented or you had someone in your life who was different from your own family, but I guess, in your case, it was the whole other world you got to see by reading about it.

 

[street]

Reading in the home is also important. My parents weren't educated, but they were readers who produced three kids who love to read. The house was always full of magazines, library books, and drugstore paperbacks. We read stories aloud after dinner. I, the youngest, didn't start school till nearly age 6 (due to a late birthday), but had long since demanded that my mother teach me to read and write.

I still remember my parents privately criticizing a couple they socialized with for having nothing to read in their very nice home. Not a newspaper, not a book on the shelves, because the lady of the house deemed them "dust-gatherers." The topic arose in the car on the way home, because the LOTH had mentioned that her teenage son and daughter were doing poorly in school and she was afraid they might drop out.

Very true, reading is very important ingredient.

 

[Mdlerth]

All you need is love

One of my best friends in college came from a lower middle class family. His parents barely spoke English.
He worked full time and is now a successful CPA.
However, his family appeared to be very loving and functional, so perhaps that aspect is more important than the money aspect.

That aspect is more important whether the family members achieve FI, or become billionaires, or never retire at all.

I have a relative who came from exactly the opposite environment. A sweet, loving child, but grew up in an insane household. Numerous failed attempts at suicide later, this person today is finally a functioning adult with a bright future. There is no excuse for the pain this young person endured, although it's now in the past.

I wonder how many current struggling elderly were shaped by similar horror stories in their youth.

 

[NW-Bound]

Speaking of reading, I have always loved to read, and I started reading when I was very young.

... I'm sure it helped that I learned to read extremely early. I still don't know how that happened, but I cannot recall ever being unable to read. By the time I was four, I had my own library card and regularly went there on my own. (the first book I ever checked out was about spiders). I was an absolute fiend about reading and devoured everything I could get...

There were no accessible libraries when I grew up, and although my parents were middle-class, they could not have enough books for me to read. So, I read books for adults, even if I did not always understand them.

I remember very specifically reading a local periodical magazine that translated and printed foreign novels in installments, and this particular issue I picked up had the sad ending of a novel that I did not fully understand, not having read the earlier installments.

It was only decades later when I read the famous novel The Spy Who Came in from the Cold by John Le Carré, in English this time, that I remembered that it was the demise of Alec Leamas at the foot of the Berlin Wall.

PS. At about the same time, must be when I was about 7, I read about Henry Ford, the Wright Brothers, and Edison. I wanted to grow up to build "stuff" like they did.

 

[Nemo2]

I started reading when I was very young..

DW's late mother and I, (different locales, different times), had a commonality inasmuch as we were both the only children allowed to borrow books from our respective libraries' adult sections.

 

[Calico]

Darned if I know. I just always felt, from the time I was a very young child, that I was different from all the people around me. I'm sure it helped that I learned to read extremely early. I still don't know how that happened, but I cannot recall ever being unable to read. By the time I was four, I had my own library card and regularly went there on my own. (the first book I ever checked out was about spiders). I was an absolute fiend about reading and devoured everything I could get. From that, I discovered a wider world and saw no reason why I should not be part of it.

Books open the world to us.

 

[Badger]

Not one of those "molders of young minds" and "Shapers of Americas Young Adults" (friggin' useless teachers/counselors) ever pulled me aside to say a single word about college, the financing thereof, the difference between college and any alternatives, or what my plans might be.

Sorry to hear you and others had bad experiences. However, not all teachers are "friggin' useless". Every semester for over 30 years in high school and later college I spent time with my students to discuss those issues both in and outside of class and I'm not the only one.


Cheers!

 

[Nemo2]

..... I spent time with my students to discuss those issues both in and outside of class and I'm not the only one.

Well done! However I fear there are many, (perhaps even the majority), who don't.

About 25 or so years ago, when my late wife & I lived on Canada's west coast, the young guy next door, (hardworking kid, extremely good at 'practical' stuff), asked me if I could assist him with a 'Shakespeare project'.

While we were sitting at the dining room table reviewing his efforts, DW asked if there weren't teachers who could provide assistance.........he kinda snorted and said that, at 03:31 p.m., there wasn't a teacher on the premises.

 

[Eagle43]

The military provided me a fabulous opportunity to improve myself which I did. In the military I got a college degree, a pension, lifetime health care, travel, etc. And, barring a horrendous accident or health problem, I should avoid all the senior financial problems this thread is discussing. Oh, and I'm not going to bore you with my family's poverty, but I was poor growing up. So I was lucky, with the decision to join the military. It changed my life.

 

[cooch96]

DF is shiftless. Hates working for others and has no knack for being an entrepreneur. Poor instincts on investments. He had a good sell as a business broker a few years back, paid off some family loans and put the rest in crypto currencies, positive as ever this was a foolproof plan. just like every other one. His newest plan is to live off his sons for just a few months until some other deals pop up. I think he’s also back to speculating in numismatics, like that ever works out.

He gets very little from SS as it Is garnished to pay old student loans from the 70s.

 

[Silver]

I believe it all comes down to intelligence, and that intelligence is hard-wired from birth. Environment and life experiences can influence behavior, but the more intelligent one is, the better they can both visualize and then realize their own potential. Intelligent people can just figure stuff out, including something simple like the value of money and how best to use it in their life. Lesser intelligent people can't seem to do as well overall.

This belief system sounds arrogant and simplistic, I know. But it seems to ring true to me. Intelligence is not just being "smart", but not having any common sense. It allows for thoughtful critical analysis almost as second nature, with a better understanding of implications overall.

 

[Gumby]

DF is shiftless. Hates working for others and has no knack for being an entrepreneur. Poor instincts on investments. He had a good sell as a business broker a few years back, paid off some family loans and put the rest in crypto currencies, positive as ever this was a foolproof plan. just like every other one. His newest plan is to live off his sons for just a few months until some other deals pop up. I think he’s also back to speculating in numismatics, like that ever works out.

He gets very little from SS as it Is garnished to pay old student loans from the 70s.

Sometimes, it can be useful to compare life to a baseball game. The goal is to score the most runs. As Michael Lewis described in Moneyball, the single most important offensive statistic is not number of home runs or batting average or runs batted in, but on base percentage. It doesn't matter how they get there, but more players being on base equates to more runs scored in a game. So teams should focus on getting the players who have a good OBP instead of the big home run sluggers, who usually strike out far more often than they hit a home run. In other words, you win the game if your players get 4 runs through a combination of walks and singles, even though the slugger on the other team hits 3 solo home runs. And the statistics show that your team will win more often.

So it is with life. Success is most often gained through a lifetime of small ball. You work hard, behave well, save assiduously, invest wisely and end up winning the game and having pleasant elderly years. But that is far too difficult, and perhaps more importantly boring, for some people. They would rather swing for the fences on every pitch than put in the long, hard and boring work necessary to succeed. So they chase poor investment strategies and try to find a way to have it all without really working. Every so often, one of them connects and basks in the applause of the fans as they easily round the bases, but far more often, they whiff and trudge back to the dugout.

 

[38Chevy454]

I believe it all comes down to intelligence, and that intelligence is hard-wired from birth. Environment and life experiences can influence behavior, but the more intelligent one is, the better they can both visualize and then realize their own potential. Intelligent people can just figure stuff out, including something simple like the value of money and how best to use it in their life. Lesser intelligent people can't seem to do as well overall.

This belief system sounds arrogant and simplistic, I know. But it seems to ring true to me. Intelligence is not just being "smart", but not having any common sense. It allows for thoughtful critical analysis almost as second nature, with a better understanding of implications overall.

I agree with this completely. Take just about any household with more than one child. There are differences in the resulting success and also failures of the kids. Same basic environment, so the differences are IMHO at least partially attributed to intelligence.
Extrapolate out to the kid's senior years, and it helps explain why some are well off financially and some struggle constantly.
Numerous studies have shown that education is the key to escaping poverty. The success of many previous posters on this thread shows that education helped them lift their own boots up and to move on in life.

 

[PatrickA5]

I have two close relatives that ended up in the same situation - living on SS with little savings. They got there from very different circumstances.

DB made a lot of money. During his best years, he was probably pulling in mid 6 figures annually. But, he wasn't good at keeping it. A divorce and two bankruptcies later, he's living on SS and a small inheritance. On the upside, he's a pretty motivated person and has a good work ethic so he'll probably do fine going forward.

DSIL never made more than $20K per year, so she never had money to save. Always had a hard time keeping a job long term. She eventually went on SS Disability and stopped working for over a decade. Now in her early 60's she finally found a job making $7.25/hour, working 10 hours a week. She could work more hours, but doesn't want to. She often has an excuse to miss one of her work days. Last weeks excuse was one of her dogs had a stomach ache. To her anyway, she's not the problem - society is.

So, in my family, two very different ways to achieve the same outcome. Both outcomes came from life choices.

 

[Lewis Clark]

... Take just about any household with more than one child. There are differences in the resulting success and also failures of the kids. Same basic environment, so the differences are IMHO at least partially attributed to intelligence.

The family environment experienced by each child in a family will often (and perhaps usually) be the same, but this is not always the case. I've seen many families where the children were treated so differently from each other by the parents that their environments had more differences than similarities.

 

[mountainsoft]

It always irritates me when I hear people say "why don't they get a job" or do something to change their situation. Much of success in life comes down to luck and opportunity. I did all the things I was supposed to do, studied hard, applied myself, got a college degree in electronics, but the jobs just weren't there when I graduated. I bounced from one odd job to another till I fell into the only decent job I could find repairing appliances. I barely earned enough to pay our bills, but we got by for many years. Saving for retirement wasn't even on the radar back then, and we would not be in the situation we are in today if my wife hadn't been lucky enough to get a job working for the county (with no college degree). I tried for years to find better employment, but the more time that passed, the more I lost those skills. We didn't have the time or money to pursue more education. Eventually I started my own business that brought in more than I was earning working for others, but still wasn't much more than minimum wage. The thing that allowed us to get ahead was being able and available to build/repair/etc. things ourselves instead of having to earn money to pay others to do for us. Money you're not spending is money you don't need to earn.

Yeah, there are lots of jobs out there, but jobs with good pay are rare. My daughter earned a bachelors degree, works two jobs seven days a week, 6-10 hours a day, and volunteers at the Humane Society in her free time. But despite her education and hard work her jobs only pay about minimum wage. $1700 a month doesn't go far when the rent for a tiny one bedroom apartment costs $1100 a month, not counting food, gas, auto/health insurance, auto licensing, etc. I do worry about where she will end up when she is older, but at least she is not living on the streets.

We had family that helped when we started out, were lucky enough to get a few good opportunities, and made good choices with what little we had. We won't retire rich, but are blessed that we'll be able to retire to a simple but happy life. Things could certainly have turned out a lot worse if we weren't in the right place at the right time earlier in life.