It’s hard to stop Alzheimer’s?

That seems pretty "hard" to believe. :)
 
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The evidence seems pretty thin at this point. That data really doesn't show any causation, just a vague correlation.
That said, it's a pretty safe drug, so not much downside.
 
Dale Breseden believes there are 36 factors to check that might be contributing causes for Alzheimer's, and that most people that go on to develop the disease have quite a few of these off, compared to healthy people with only several out range issues. He calls it fixing 36 holes in the roof. Fixing just one hole doesn't solve the overall problem. He doesn't see how a single drug is going to fix up the number of issues he finds in his patients. We've just started doing some similar testing in my family, and I'm really glad we did. We had a lot more than 3 - 5 out of range markers each and we haven't even addressed everything on the list yet.

"There is currently no existing cure, and Dr Bredesen maintains that there cannot be a single drug cure due to the multifactorial nature of the condition even though a drug may serve a purpose." -36 ‘Holes in the Roof’ The Dawn of the Era of Treatable and Preventable Alzheimer’s Disease | Clinical Education

(To head off the naysayers, yes, I know some think Breseden is an opportunist. He suggests some supplements without testing first to see if they are needed. However, his list of tests is available for free online (Bredesen Protocol - ApoE4.Info Wiki) and so far they all seem to be mainstream lab tests, like checking for vitamin D deficiency, heavy metal toxins, and homocysteine levels. Except for the cost, which I am happy to pay out of pocket for, there is no downside and only upside to identifying and correcting these type of issues. The side effects are all positive. A wide body of research, besides Breseden's own studies, backs that the individual factors each might improve cognitive decline, as well as improve many other health issues.)
 
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There are 101 things that may be helpful but have not been established to actually make a difference

Dale Breseden believes...
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a lot of things and sells supplements patients and "certificates of training" to various practitioners to promote his ideas. He doesn't seem to have the respect of any cognitive neurologists.https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih...ra-associated-reduced-risk-alzheimers-disease

The reality is that simple things like exercise and a good diet are your best bet.

People want to believe in something more exciting. :)
 

For anyone interested, this is a link for an interview with Dale Breseden/ Mark Hyman which I had seen a while back. I did think it was interesting.

Yes, I had heard about Viagra previously. I can see how it might help somewhat by improving blood flow . . .
 
RetMD21 said:
The reality is that simple things like exercise and a good diet are your best bet.

People want to believe in something more exciting. :)
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A lot of agreement with that:
Pricey Protocol Not Proven to Prevent or Reverse Alzheimer’s, Says UCSF Neurologist
A protocol comprising dietary supplements and lifestyle changes that claims to prevent or reverse Alzheimer’s disease and cognitive decline has drawn media fanfare and critical acclaim from health gurus and even physicians. But endorsement of these claims is frequently based on three published papers – all of which share the hallmarks of second-rate science, according to a cognitive neurologist at UC San Francisco.
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Nevertheless, it's always good to keep an open mind and evaluate claims on their merits.
 
Kinda hard to get a double blind study on a conglomerate of life style changes and supplements. If I had a chance to help a loved one suffering with Alzheimer's I would certainly be tempted . . .
 
MarieIG said:
Kinda hard to get a double blind study on a conglomerate of life style changes and supplements. If I had a chance to help a loved one suffering with Alzheimer's I would certainly be tempted . . .
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Of course you would. Unfortunately this is what opens the door to well meaning people with ineffective treatments that sound promising but do nothing. It also attracts low-lifes and sociopaths that exploit this sentiment for their gain. I saw this when my BiL was dying from cancer.
 
MichaelB said:
Of course you would. Unfortunately this is what opens the door to well meaning people with ineffective treatments that sound promising but do nothing. It also attracts low-lifes and sociopaths that exploit this sentiment for their gain. I saw this when my BiL was dying from cancer.
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Went through that with DM as well. By the time she agreed to treatment by a reputable surgeon, it was too late.
 
MarieIG said:
Kinda hard to get a double blind study on a conglomerate of life style changes and supplements. If I had a chance to help a loved one suffering with Alzheimer's I would certainly be tempted . . .
Click to expand...

I'm doing exactly that for someone with a related disorder and they have been improving. So far the testing identified over 20 out of range biomarkers on one person alone, and some of the makers were really far off. These aren't things that just exercising and eating "healthy" can fix because of bioindividuality - what is healthy for one person may not be healthy for another. We all know people who eat healthy and exercise and yet still get cancer, brain diseases or have other serious health issues.

The testing for me has been clearing up some long time digestion and allergy issues.

Without testing, how would you know if you had a B2, zinc and vitamin D deficiency, a leaky gut, the Epstein-Barr infection, high homocysteine levels, gluten sensitivity, low uric acid levels, an overgrowth of strep bacteria in your gut, too much mercury in your system or any of the many other factors Breseden suggests testing for? These kinds of tests are pretty inexpensive these days and many have simple fixes, if you know what is wrong. These are all mainstream medical tests you can order from CLIA certified labs. I had no idea exactly what was wrong with me until I ordered the tests.
 
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It appears that metabolic ill health is highly correlated with dementia including Alzheimer’s.

So avoiding insulin resistance, or reversing it if you have the markers, seems to be a good approach to reducing your chances of developing dementia/Alzheimer’s.

Metabolic neurologist Dr. Mathew CL Phillips has done some interesting work in this area.
 
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audreyh1 said:
It appears that metabolic ill health is highly correlated with dementia including Alzheimer’s.

So avoiding insulin resistance, or reversing it if you have the markers, seems to be a good approach to reducing your chances of developing dementia/Alzheimer’s.

Metabolic neurologist Dr. Mathew CL Phillips has done some interesting work in this area.
Click to expand...

There are easily 100 or more factors linked to Alzheimer's in Pubmed studies in addition to insulin resistance, including vitamin and mineral deficiencies, fungal infections and low uric acid levels. Breseden's approach is to check for many of these and correct the ones that are off, mostly with relatively inexpensive lab work for the testing. Fungal infections come up a lot in the current Alzheimer's research, and there is no downside to identifying and clearing up fungal infections. The results of identifying and correcting any fungal infections are all positive. Fungi in gut linked to higher Alzheimer's risk can be reduced through ketogenic diet -- ScienceDaily

If someone has 20 factors linked in research to Alzheimer's, it does not seem wacky to me to think that clearing up those 20 factors might lead to some improvement. Especially when the testing to identify those issues is relatively inexpensive and noninvasive, and many of the treatments also inexpensive and simple. Like fungal infections can often be diagnosed with a noninvasive, at home urine test and treated with a few over the counter supplements and some diet tweaks.
 
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As bad as late stages of Alzheimer's can be, I think in many cases it's worse for the caregiver, especially if the caregiver is a spouse or other close family member. I have been around someone with later stage Alzheimer's (for a short time) and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Although I suspect (hope) many cases aren't as bad as what I saw.
 
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Car-Guy said:
I have been around someone with later stage Alzheimer's (for a short time) and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Although I suspect (hope) many cases aren't as bad as what I saw.
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Mom & Dad both had alzheimers. Their quack PCP would not have a hard talk with them. The Alzheimers scoring (MMSE) that he did gave them a passing (mild) score. By the time we got them to a better physician 2 years later it was moderate/severe. They were in Assisted living for a year (?) then to memory care. The first time I walked in memory care I was shocked & frankly terrified. The staff was doing as much as possible. But the disease was taking over. I will not wish it on anyone. They did a couple drugs after getting DX. But the disease just kept overtaking. The drug did help for a few months (Aricept?) It was heartbreaking to see what Mom & dad were going to be like months later
 
Recent studies show Alzheimer's is linked to the microbiome, and may even be diagnosed based on a unique microbiome signature: " In conclusion, we identified a specific Alzheimer signature in intestinal microbiome that can be used to discriminate amyloid-positive AD patients from healthy controls. The diagnostic accuracy increases from taxonomic to functional data and is even better when combining taxonomic, functional and clinical models. Intestinal microbiome represents an innovative diagnostic supplement and a promising area for developing novel interventions against AD." - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9063165/

Researchers know a lot about good gut heath and there are many gut health tests available on the market today. We're doing gut testing in my family. I don't see a downside to finding out if you have some pathogenic bacteria, yeast, worms, or viruses; gluten sensitivity; autoimmune triggers in the gut; a shortage of some good bacteria that should normally be present; a leaky gut or one of the many other conditions on the tests.
 
This is very interesting and timely to me as I've been looking into nootropics to increase my cognitive functions as I feel like I'm getting more forgetful.

Viagra increases blood flow to the heart and I believe to the brain as well? I haven't read the whole article, but I think there is something to this. What stuck out for me by some of what I read is the importance of choline in the diet for memory. Also lowering the homocysteine level is important. It also seems to be important to get more blood flow in the brain.

If Alzheimer's is cerebrovascular disease, then it makes sense that something like Viagra which increases blood flow to the brain is effective against Alzheimer's.

I'm currently looking into citicoline, Alpha GPC, and vinpocetine.

Alpha GPC is a natural choline compound found in the brain. It is also a parasympathomimetic acetylcholine precursor which has been investigated for its potential for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease and other dementias (Wiki).

Citicoline serves as a choline donor for the synthesis of acetylcholine.
In Alzheimer's disease, choline levels decrease; this affects the brain cell's ability to produce acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter important for memory. Brain cells may instead break down cell membranes to produce acetyl-choline, and taking citicoline is thought to prevent this breakdown. (alzdiscovery.org)

Vinpocetine is a man-made chemical similar to a substance found in the periwinkle plant (Vinca minor). In Europe, it's sold as a drug called Cavinton. Vinpocetine might increase blood flow to the brain and protect brain cells (neurons) against injury.(webmd). Evidently, vinpocetine can help reduce symptoms in people whose tinnitus is due to poor blood flow (peacehealth.org)

I'm not a doctor and I am not recommending you will take these supplements. I am just stating what I am looking into and what kind of nootropics I am thinking of experimenting with. Citicoline seems to have a fairly long half-life, so I think I will be careful experimenting with this. I would be very careful with vinpocetine as it's only sold as a prescription in some countries and it will most likely lower my blood pressure just like Viagra probably would.

I started out with Lions Mane mushrooms (another nootropic for memory) - I didn't notice much of anything from them after a few days. I'm planning to take citicoline soon, but I started taking Alpha GPC a few days ago and the effect has been quite immediate and so far, I'm very happy with it. I only take 1/4 of the normal dosage and it works for me surprisingly well (and fast) although it seems to make my dreams a bit too vivid and wild. I think I will just take it earlier in the day.

I have also added back eating more eggs (which are high in choline, a precursor to acetylcholine). And started taking Vit B complex for Vit B12, B6 and folic acid (which is supposed to lower homocysteine levels.) Not sure however if this is doing anything.
 
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daylatedollarshort said:
I'm doing exactly that for someone with a related disorder and they have been improving. So far the testing identified over 20 out of range biomarkers on one person alone, and some of the makers were really far off. These aren't things that just exercising and eating "healthy" can fix because of bioindividuality - what is healthy for one person may not be healthy for another. We all know people who eat healthy and exercise and yet still get cancer, brain diseases or have other serious health issues.

The testing for me has been clearing up some long time digestion and allergy issues.

Without testing, how would you know if you had a B2, zinc and vitamin D deficiency, a leaky gut, the Epstein-Barr infection, high homocysteine levels, gluten sensitivity, low uric acid levels, an overgrowth of strep bacteria in your gut, too much mercury in your system or any of the many other factors Breseden suggests testing for? These kinds of tests are pretty inexpensive these days and many have simple fixes, if you know what is wrong. These are all mainstream medical tests you can order from CLIA certified labs. I had no idea exactly what was wrong with me until I ordered the tests.
Click to expand...

I am glad to hear your loved one is improving. Seems like removing toxins and addressing insufficiencies would be good for your overall health. Re gluten, my body SCREAMS at me if I eat it; so that's a little clue.
 
tmm99 said:
This is very interesting and timely to me as I've been looking into nootropics to increase my cognitive functions as I feel like I'm getting more forgetful.

Viagra increases blood flow to the heart and I believe to the brain as well? I haven't read the whole article, but I think there is something to this. What stuck out for me by some of what I read is the importance of choline in the diet for memory. Also lowering the homocysteine level is important. It also seems to be important to get more blood flow in the brain.

If Alzheimer's is cerebrovascular disease, then it makes sense that something like Viagra which increases blood flow to the brain is effective against Alzheimer's.

I'm currently looking into citicoline, Alpha GPC, and vinpocetine.

Alpha GPC is a natural choline compound found in the brain. It is also a parasympathomimetic acetylcholine precursor which has been investigated for its potential for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease and other dementias (Wiki).

Citicoline serves as a choline donor for the synthesis of acetylcholine.
In Alzheimer's disease, choline levels decrease; this affects the brain cell's ability to produce acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter important for memory. Brain cells may instead break down cell membranes to produce acetyl-choline, and taking citicoline is thought to prevent this breakdown. (alzdiscovery.org)

Vinpocetine is a man-made chemical similar to a substance found in the periwinkle plant (Vinca minor). In Europe, it's sold as a drug called Cavinton. Vinpocetine might increase blood flow to the brain and protect brain cells (neurons) against injury.(webmd). Evidently, vinpocetine can help reduce symptoms in people whose tinnitus is due to poor blood flow (peacehealth.org)

I'm not a doctor and I am not recommending you will take these supplements. I am just stating what I am looking into and what kind of nootropics I am thinking of experimenting with. Citicoline seems to have a fairly long half-life, so I think I will be careful experimenting with this. I would be very careful with vinpocetine as it's only sold as a prescription in some countries and it will most likely lower my blood pressure just like Viagra probably would.

I started out with Lions Mane mushrooms (another nootropic for memory) - I didn't notice much of anything from them after a few days. I'm planning to take citicoline soon, but I started taking Alpha GPC a few days ago and the effect has been quite immediate and so far, I'm very happy with it. I only take 1/4 of the normal dosage and it works for me surprisingly well (and fast) although it seems to make my dreams a bit too vivid and wild. I think I will just take it earlier in the day.

I have also added back eating more eggs (which are high in choline, a precursor to acetylcholine). And started taking Vit B complex for Vit B12, B6 and folic acid (which is supposed to lower homocysteine levels.) Not sure however if this is doing anything.
Click to expand...



Alpha GPC has been associated with stroke. A study involving 12 million users found as association.
 
daylatedollarshort said:
Recent studies show Alzheimer's is linked to the microbiome, and may even be diagnosed based on a unique microbiome signature: " In conclusion, we identified a specific Alzheimer signature in intestinal microbiome that can be used to discriminate amyloid-positive AD patients from healthy controls. The diagnostic accuracy increases from taxonomic to functional data and is even better when combining taxonomic, functional and clinical models. Intestinal microbiome represents an innovative diagnostic supplement and a promising area for developing novel interventions against AD." - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9063165/

Researchers know a lot about good gut heath and there are many gut health tests available on the market today. We're doing gut testing in my family. I don't see a downside to finding out if you have some pathogenic bacteria, yeast, worms, or viruses; gluten sensitivity; autoimmune triggers in the gut; a shortage of some good bacteria that should normally be present; a leaky gut or one of the many other conditions on the tests.
Click to expand...

Last year, I would have thought this idea of such a dramatic effect of the gut bio on health to be fluffy.

However, due to some years of digestive issues which made social and travel events awkward, including thinking I was lactose intolerant. I had a doctor scope my stomach. I had a bacteria in there that we killed with medicine. My life has tremendously improved and I can eat ice cream with gusto.
 
tmm99 said:
I have also added back eating more eggs (which are high in choline, a precursor to acetylcholine). And started taking Vit B complex for Vit B12, B6 and folic acid (which is supposed to lower homocysteine levels.) Not sure however if this is doing anything.
Click to expand...

Be warned that if you have either of the MTHFR mutations the b12 / b6/ and folate won't be processed by your body properly. (I have one mutation, hubby has the other, and one of our sons got the bonus of both mutations.) Your body methylizes the colbin/folate/ etc... But if you have this mutation you don't properly break it down/methylize it. Your brain needs methylfolate and methylcolbin to regulate stuff like Serotonin. Homocystienes were mentioned upstream in this thread - and your body can't properly absorb/convert it if you have a defect (MTHFR) in creating the enzyme that does this. The vitamins are easy to find pre-methylized. (I order off amazon for methylfolate, and costco sells a methylcolban) Homocystienes are less easy to address.

TL: DR - if you don't see an improvement with b vitamins- your body might be having issues converting them to the form needed due to a genetic mutation of the MTHFR gene.
 
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