new rules for hearing aids

I have 6000$ Phonak hearing aids as I have significant hearing loss from Meniere's Disease.

I also have significant hearing loss because of Meniere's. I haven't had a vertigo attack in almost ten years, yet my hearing is getting worse.

I wear my Costco hearing aids for the majority of the time. I've been told by several audiologist to wear them to keep the nerve endings in my ear stimulated to avoid further hearing loss.
 
Damn. As soon as I hear or see the word my tinnitus jumps into awareness.

I didn't know some hearing aids help tinnitus. Do they run a compensating tone that cancels it out?

Now THAT is something I'd pay some serious money for. Was not aware of such a thing. I whine to my PCP every time we meet that my tinnitus (sorry donheff!) is worse. He sorta shrugs. Not his thing. I would think he would have known about any devices that would help. Anyway, I'm gonna be checking it out.

Yeah, I too have the "awareness" thing when I hear the word. Difficult to explain to people who don't have it. The other day, DW and I were walking in the neighborhood here in the heartland. Some over enthusiastic locust was doing his thing. I said to DW: "That's what I hear 24/7." She gave me this look like "Now I get it." YMMV
 
[-]Damn. As soon as I hear or see the word my tinnitus jumps into awareness.[/-]

I didn't know some hearing aids help tinnitus. Do they run a compensating tone that cancels it out?

Had to strike the first line, happens to me too! :(

I haven't researched it, but I'm guessing the hearing aids just inject a bit of noise to mask the internal noise.

Though I do recall some research (probably in an old thread), that some very specific types of noise actually helped. It might have been like using noise, but filtering out the noise we hear in our head, so it isn't noise on top of noise, but then a constant level across the frequency band. And that would maybe calm down our brain's response? Something like that?

Tech Note: While most people will refer to it as "white noise", in most cases "pink noise" is used for audio masking. White noise has equal energy at all frequencies, pink noise has equal energy across each octave band. That means pink noise has the same amount of energy from 100 Hz to 200 Hz ( a pretty narrow range of bass-to mid-bass tones), as it does from 4,000 Hz to 8,000 Hz (a wide band where a lot of consonant sounds are. So to our ears, there is more emphasis on the lower frequencies. Some noise sources allow you to choose.

If you take white noise (the noise between stations on an un-muted FM radio), and turn the treble tone control on the pre-amp or receiver all the way CCW, that's fairly close to pink noise. Not as 'bright' sounding.

-ERD50
 
Here is a Clark Howard article on the new HA law:

Hearing Aids Will Soon Be Sold Over The Counter

He advises caution:

“This is going to set off a free-for-all, and some of it’s not going to be good,” warns Clark. “A lot of devices will come into the marketplace that will not be of good quality. And just because you’re free to buy them without a prescription, don’t just buy on price alone.”

and...

You’ll no longer have to visit a doctor and get a prescription to purchase hearing aids, but you should still have a professional check out your hearing. Only a professional is able to diagnose the root of your hearing loss and make sure that you don’t have a condition that’s could lead to full deafness.
 
Had to strike the first line, happens to me too! :(

I haven't researched it, but I'm guessing the hearing aids just inject a bit of noise to mask the internal noise.

Though I do recall some research (probably in an old thread), that some very specific types of noise actually helped. It might have been like using noise, but filtering out the noise we hear in our head, so it isn't noise on top of noise, but then a constant level across the frequency band. And that would maybe calm down our brain's response? Something like that?

Tech Note: While most people will refer to it as "white noise", in most cases "pink noise" is used for audio masking. White noise has equal energy at all frequencies, pink noise has equal energy across each octave band. That means pink noise has the same amount of energy from 100 Hz to 200 Hz ( a pretty narrow range of bass-to mid-bass tones), as it does from 4,000 Hz to 8,000 Hz (a wide band where a lot of consonant sounds are. So to our ears, there is more emphasis on the lower frequencies. Some noise sources allow you to choose.

If you take white noise (the noise between stations on an un-muted FM radio), and turn the treble tone control on the pre-amp or receiver all the way CCW, that's fairly close to pink noise. Not as 'bright' sounding.

-ERD50
I'll tell you, fan noise doesn't mask my tinnitus at all. It's too bad, because that's a more peaceful sound than what it takes to mask my tinnitus. I don't hear it in the shower, and if there are enough crickets, cicadas, and katydids doing their thing in the evening when I'm outside, that will mask it.

This sound does a good job of matching up and masking my tinnitus, but it's not nearly as pleasant as the sound of a fan, so I barely use it:

I've actually read quite a bit in the T forums that it's best not to fully mask because the tinnitus will "compete" against the real sound. I'm not sure if that's true, but it's been mentioned often, so when I'm adjusting the volume of masking sounds from youtube like crickets/katydids/cicadas, I don't try to totally override the tinnitus, but enough so that my brain isn't focused on the tinnitus so that I can get to sleep, and get to sleep again each of the times I wake up.

This one is interesting because it's a bunch of individual tones, and in between the tones during the silent parts, I can hear my tinnitus volume drop way down. Too bad it doesn't last long at all once it stops. It's not pleasant to listen to, either.

I've heard some mixed reviews on the tinnitus masking included in some HA's.
 
I wonder if over the counter hearing aids will only be the equivalent of reading glasses. Sure, you can buy reading glasses over the counter, but they only help if all you need is reading glasses. They are no substitute for prescription glasses for most people.
 
I wonder if over the counter hearing aids will only be the equivalent of reading glasses. Sure, you can buy reading glasses over the counter, but they only help if all you need is reading glasses. They are no substitute for prescription glasses for most people.
No one stops you from going to an optometrist now and no one will stop you from going to an audiologist in the future. In the meantime, millions of people will have better hearing at an affordable cost.
 
I wonder if over the counter hearing aids will only be the equivalent of reading glasses. Sure, you can buy reading glasses over the counter, but they only help if all you need is reading glasses. They are no substitute for prescription glasses for most people.


Apples and oranges.
 
I wonder if over the counter hearing aids will only be the equivalent of reading glasses. Sure, you can buy reading glasses over the counter, but they only help if all you need is reading glasses. They are no substitute for prescription glasses for most people.

My ultimate hope is that the "competition" will lower the prices of the "legitimate" HA sellers (such as Costco.) I don't think I'd be too tempted to buy any $200 HAs but their availability would likely put pressure on prices of the "good" HAs. Let us hope.
 
My ultimate hope is that the "competition" will lower the prices of the "legitimate" HA sellers (such as Costco.) I don't think I'd be too tempted to buy any $200 HAs but their availability would likely put pressure on prices of the "good" HAs. Let us hope.

I can certainly see competitive price reductions forced on the typical audiologist-sold high dollar hearing aids. However, when it comes to Costco I have serious doubts there will be any meaningful price impact. Costco's Kirkland brand hearing aids (made by Sonova) currently sell for $1,400. This includes the Full Monty on included services: no charge testing, programming, fitting, adjusting, cleaning and repairs for three years - even free replacement if you lose one. I don't see how they can continue to offer all this at a much lower price.

Speaking of price, Costco has lowered the price of their own Kirkland brand of HA by $100 each time they have introduced a new and improved version, roughly every 18 months.
 
I can certainly see competitive price reductions forced on the typical audiologist-sold high dollar hearing aids. However, when it comes to Costco I have serious doubts there will be any meaningful price impact. Costco's Kirkland brand hearing aids (made by Sonova) currently sell for $1,400. This includes the Full Monty on included services: no charge testing, programming, fitting, adjusting, cleaning and repairs for three years - even free replacement if you lose one. I don't see how they can continue to offer all this at a much lower price.

Speaking of price, Costco has lowered the price of their own Kirkland brand of HA by $100 each time they have introduced a new and improved version, roughly every 18 months.

I assume it's the service you are actually paying for in most cases. Clearly the "gizmos" can't cost much to manufacture by the tens of thousands per year.
 
I assume it's the service you are actually paying for in most cases. Clearly the "gizmos" can't cost much to manufacture by the tens of thousands per year.

Yes, it's the service you are paying for. If they are in-the-ear aids then you need an earmold made. Then there is adjusting the fit into the ear after the aid is made and delivered to the customer.

As I said, I used to repair hearing aids. This was in the late 70's. Inside the in-the-ear aids there was a battery, a three transistor amplifier circuit, a microphone, a speaker, a resistor, a capacitor, and volume control with on/off switch. I'd guess there was $5.00 worth of components in there, maybe $10 worth with the parts being smaller than typical for the 70's.

Nowadays, I presume inside they have one chip acting as amplifier, a battery, mic, and receiver, and a volume control (VC.) The chip is tailored for the hearing profile of the user. Again, probably $5.00 worth of parts.

It is inconceivable that a person can buy a 55" HDTV with remote control and streaming apps installed for around $300, yet hearing aids that have far, far, fewer electronic components in it than the TV's remote control can cost $2,000.
 
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Thanks for the site. If I read it correctly, the $1400 pair is if you order from the warehouse. I couldn't quite tell if that entitled you to the services. Apparently, the $1400 pair is the bottom of the line. I'm guessing that's where most of us would start - especially if we are cheap.:cool:

I'm always a bit suspicious when I see something like their little blurb on "battery life." Okay, I get it, "it varies" but they didn't even give a range which would give you an idea of the on-going costs. They suggest you write down when you put in a battery and when it fails. Wait, what? IOW, before you know what it's gonna cost to run your HAs, you have to buy them to find out.

I've actually heard good things about Costco's HAs and service, so willing to take a look at it. But the site doesn't give me a good feeling about w*rking with them. I would assume we have members who are happy with them so YMMV.
 
Thanks for the site. If I read it correctly, the $1400 pair is if you order from the warehouse. I couldn't quite tell if that entitled you to the services. Apparently, the $1400 pair is the bottom of the line. I'm guessing that's where most of us would start - especially if we are cheap.:cool:

I'm always a bit suspicious when I see something like their little blurb on "battery life." Okay, I get it, "it varies" but they didn't even give a range which would give you an idea of the on-going costs. They suggest you write down when you put in a battery and when it fails. Wait, what? IOW, before you know what it's gonna cost to run your HAs, you have to buy them to find out.

I've actually heard good things about Costco's HAs and service, so willing to take a look at it. But the site doesn't give me a good feeling about w*rking with them. I would assume we have members who are happy with them so YMMV.

Dude. I'm all about value. Costco is da bomb. Their batteries are as inexpensive as they come - I get about 6 days per set, so AIR about $10/month. Costco's stores are called warehouses, so you will be talking with people in person at the warehouse. Costco's house brand is, in my experience, upper level quality.

Have had Costco's HA for several years and they have done warranty work and adjustments gratis - and cheerfully. Even had a talk with one of them when I was thinking about changing my aids for something newer and wondered if I could pass my aids to a friend who hasn't had aids before and is a bit money shy. The rep indicated that the friend could get the aids re-adjusted to fit her at Costco if she was a "relative". Gratis. Also told me I wouldn't be gaining much at all if I bought new, so haven't done so yet. Not a commission store. Think it makes a difference.
 
Thanks for the site. If I read it correctly, the $1400 pair is if you order from the warehouse. I couldn't quite tell if that entitled you to the services. Apparently, the $1400 pair is the bottom of the line. I'm guessing that's where most of us would start - especially if we are cheap.:cool:

I'm always a bit suspicious when I see something like their little blurb on "battery life." Okay, I get it, "it varies" but they didn't even give a range which would give you an idea of the on-going costs. They suggest you write down when you put in a battery and when it fails. Wait, what? IOW, before you know what it's gonna cost to run your HAs, you have to buy them to find out.

I've actually heard good things about Costco's HAs and service, so willing to take a look at it. But the site doesn't give me a good feeling about w*rking with them. I would assume we have members who are happy with them so YMMV.

The $1400 is for HAs purchased in person at one of their warehouses, you can't order them online. That includes what I described earlier as the "Full Monty" of services, testing, fitting and warranty guarantees.

Battery cost is insignificant, even if you are cheap. The $1400 Kirkland HAs shown are rechargeable, so no batteries required. DW has them and the charge lasts far longer than she does each day. I have the previous version that requires a battery. The batteries last ~5 days depending on how high you have he volume. They cost (at Costco) $0.18 each and I go through 150 batteries a year, setting me back a total of $27.

Costco is the largest seller of HAs in the US, by far. I've been really happy with their service - very professional and responsive to any issues. I can't think of any other business where I've received better customer service. When I lost one of my HAs while doing some yardwork, they replaced it with a new one, programmed to my hearing requirement, within a couple of days - free.
 
Does any current user know if current aids work with both iphones and other types? I would assume they'd mostly all work with either.

I am on my third pair of hearing aids in 6 years. The tech involved with hearing aids is basically bluetooth protocol. Bluetooth has had some changes in the last 6 years, thus, there is a matching protocol between phones and hearing aids. All that to say, hearing aids will work with some phones but not others, when shopping for hearing aids you need to pay attention to the "compatibly list".

I realized early on that the huge price tag for my hearings aids had a lot to do with the supporting service involved with getting them, the hearing test, the fitting, service, and repair. But not all audiologist are created equal, like most service industries, some are pretty good, some horrible. Being a bit of a nerd I would love to have control over my hearing adjustments, not just preprogrammed routines, but actual control.

So I am looking forward to over the counter hearing aids. It'll be kinda like cell phones, there will a wide range of function and cost. Should you need a prescription for hearing aids? IMHO no, it's not a cure, it's an aid, like buying crutches.

I will be seeking a doctor this winter to explain why my hearing keeps getting worse.

Tinnitus, yup got that too. All three of my hearing aids helped some but did not eliminate it.
 
I've actually heard good things about Costco's HAs and service, so willing to take a look at it. But the site doesn't give me a good feeling about w*rking with them. I would assume we have members who are happy with them so YMMV.

Have a you looked at other audiologist web sites to compare? The ones I’ve looked at remind me of Lenscrafters glasses. Websites are well designed but mostly marketing and but not really helpful, locations are like higher end retail, customer service is professional, and prices are outrageous.
 
The $1400 is for HAs purchased in person at one of their warehouses, you can't order them online. That includes what I described earlier as the "Full Monty" of services, testing, fitting and warranty guarantees.........
That was my experience. I made an appointment and they spent about 1 1/2 hours with me, first doing a series of tests, then setting up a pair of HAs to match the test results. They let me take them home for 3 days to try then out. I heard a lot more squeaks and high pitch noises, but really found little improvement in hearing my wife talking into the refrigerator in the next room. When I returned them, they said they were not surprised as my hearing loss notch was marginal.

Bottom line, great service, good price on the HAs if I'd kept them and no cost to me. These HAs were rechargeable by setting them in a holder and had bluetooth adjustment via an app I downloaded. If / when I need them I'll go back to Costco.
 
I am on my third pair of hearing aids in 6 years. The tech involved with hearing aids is basically bluetooth protocol. Bluetooth has had some changes in the last 6 years, thus, there is a matching protocol between phones and hearing aids. All that to say, hearing aids will work with some phones but not others, when shopping for hearing aids you need to pay attention to the "compatibly list".

Thank you. Makes sense totally but not the sort of thing that would normally cross my mind.
 
One more point regarding Costco audiology service. I had an ear infection in late 2020 which I was sure left me with additional damage to the hearing in my right ear. I waited until the [-]last[/-] most recent wave of Covid died away and requested another hearing test. They did the test within a few days and it revealed that I had indeed lost additional hearing in my right ear, now classified as moderate to severe. They reprogrammed my HAs and fitted me with a more powerful amplifier and a slightly different style of earpiece, all at no charge.
 
I thought someone here posted a hearing test app. Can't find it.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mobile.eaudiologia&hl=en_US&gl=US
I downloaded it to my phone, had my 28 yr old son do the silly calibration, (but what else can you do) and I took the test, it pretty much matches what I got at the hearing center 3 or 4 year ago.
With the numbers you would think I have a bigger problem then I do.
I have tough time with squeaky voiced kids and noisy rooms. I'm down 45db a 4kHz. From what I can decipher, that would require a 'Sound Pressure Level' increase of 200 times to get it up to the 0db level of my 500Hz hearing. So then the question is, if you raise the level that high to hear it, does that cause more damage? Or where is the limit?
 
I thought someone here posted a hearing test app. Can't find it.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mobile.eaudiologia&hl=en_US&gl=US
I downloaded it to my phone, had my 28 yr old son do the silly calibration, (but what else can you do) and I took the test, it pretty much matches what I got at the hearing center 3 or 4 year ago.
With the numbers you would think I have a bigger problem then I do.
I have tough time with squeaky voiced kids and noisy rooms. I'm down 45db a 4kHz. From what I can decipher, that would require a 'Sound Pressure Level' increase of 200 times to get it up to the 0db level of my 500Hz hearing. So then the question is, if you raise the level that high to hear it, does that cause more damage? Or where is the limit?

45db down is a lot, and near the limit that HA can compensate for (assuming the test was accurate, which is a very big if, for many reasons).

With that much loss, I'd really seek out an audiologist. A lot depends on how wide/narrow that loss is, and how it ramps up above/below that 4Khz.

From what I understand, the max output of an HA is kept below damage levels, but I wonder. My FIL's would feedback, and I could hear the squeal w5 ft away (and my hearing is not great). Hard to believe that wasn't a lot of energy (that he couldn't sense), hitting his eardrum.

-ERD50
 
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