Cashless travel

[EastWest Gal]

Any place that uses a touchless credit or debit card can use Apple Pay. A strange thing-I don’t think Lowe’s or Home Depot take Apple Pay. Almost every grocery store around here.

Other things can go in your Apple Wallet: Airline tickets train tickets, the Kennedy Center, and other items.

 

[audreyh1]

Any place that uses a touchless credit or debit card can use Apple Pay. A strange thing-I don’t think Lowe’s or Home Depot take Apple Pay. Almost every grocery store around here.

That’s often true, but not a given. Some places may accept tap-to-pay but still not accept digital payments such as Apple Pay.

 

[sengsational]

I found the whole cashless thing incredibly convenient [snip] I truly believe that is the way we are headed because it is so unbelievably efficient and convenient.

Convenient, certainly. Efficiency has several factors. It does seem efficient, but part of efficiency is cost, which is buried in the price of the product or service you're paying for. The fees associated with different payment schemes vary, and I believe the trend is for the seller to have more choices and so market pressure to reduce transaction fees, but right now, it's costing a whole lot of money that we simply have no way to see.

But I'm a fan of no cash while traveling. I just got back from a 4 country trip and didn't hit the ATM even once.

Public transit was once the bane of my cash avoidance plan, but everywhere I went, they had a mobile app. You just download it, put your CC# in, and buy a ticket. Often they'd also take CC when you get on the bus, but that takes time and the driver's attention. With the app, you just get on through the back door and show the ticket on your phone if asked. I saw some people scan the ticket QR code, but not many, so I figured it was optional.

 

[SecondAttempt]

Convenient, certainly. Efficiency has several factors. It does seem efficient, but part of efficiency is cost, which is buried in the price of the product or service you're paying for. The fees associated with different payment schemes vary, and I believe the trend is for the seller to have more choices and so market pressure to reduce transaction fees, but right now, it's costing a whole lot of money that we simply have no way to see.

But I'm a fan of no cash while traveling. I just got back from a 4 country trip and didn't hit the ATM even once.

Public transit was once the bane of my cash avoidance plan, but everywhere I went, they had a mobile app. You just download it, put your CC# in, and buy a ticket. Often they'd also take CC when you get on the bus, but that takes time and the driver's attention. With the app, you just get on through the back door and show the ticket on your phone if asked. I saw some people scan the ticket QR code, but not many, so I figured it was optional.

I completely agree nothing is free and someone is paying. I Denmark now and almost cashless as well in Copenhagen. But I read that Denmark has a law requiring businesses to accept cash. Also. there is usually a ~$0.75 USD surcharge added to each payment that the customer pays. Servers are quick to point it out an dsay that the bank adds it not them. They seem annoyed by it.

When I had a mechant account and accepted credit cards for a business I quickly learned that premium card that offer a lot of perks have higher fees for the merchant. So extra hidden fees are nothing new. If someone is thta concerned with the banks/cc companies skimming off extra for themselves you need to take great care inwhich cards you choose to use. I am personally not that concerned andd was not terribly concerned as a merchant.

 

[flyingaway]

In my opinion, it is dangerous for private people if cash cannot be used. The government or other authority could close your accounts for any reasons and you could literally starve to death even if you win later in court.
In many movie situations, good people are running away in situations where, if cash is banned, they may not have a place to live, no food to eat, no transportation, etc.

 

[SecondAttempt]

In my opinion, it is dangerous for private people if cash cannot be used. The government or other authority could close your accounts for any reasons and you could literally starve to death even if you win later in court.

This is not something that would ever concern me! I mean, why would the government want to close my accounts? I gladly pay my taxes and generally comply with the law as every citizen should.

I'm curious why you think the government has any interest in having you or anyone else starve to death.

 

[MichaelB]

In my opinion, it is dangerous for private people if cash cannot be used. The government or other authority could close your accounts for any reasons and you could literally starve to death even if you win later in court.
In many movie situations, good people are running away in situations where, if cash is banned, they may not have a place to live, no food to eat, no transportation, etc.

Your bank accounts can be frozen today (With the right authorization) so unless you live completely outside the regulated banking system, there is no new or additional risk.

The experience of the OP does not involve the banning of currency, it’s about the increasing use and utility of digital payments.

The one issue with increased digital payments is the loss of privacy. Unless they exceed certain limits, cash transactions are private, and if the 2 parties transacting choose to keep it between only them, no one else will know. Not so with a digital payment. The transactional info can be collected, studied, sold, etc.

This thread brings back memories of my travels around Latin America. I always had to have coins for pay phones and small denomination bills for low value transactions, such as water or (gasp) gratuities.

 

[audreyh1]

Traveling in Europe we tip at restaurants in cash and for the hotel room daily service in cash. So I’m not sure what I would do if it were truly cashless. Lots of stores, restaurants and hotels in Amsterdam don’t take cash but that doesn’t mean I can’t pull some out of the ATM and use for tips or very small purchases at stores/venues that do take cash. You know, that neighborhood herring stand……

 

[athena53]

When I had a merchant account and accepted credit cards for a business I quickly learned that premium card that offer a lot of perks have higher fees for the merchant. So extra hidden fees are nothing new. If someone is that concerned with the banks/cc companies skimming off extra for themselves you need to take great care which cards you choose to use. I am personally not that concerned and was not terribly concerned as a merchant.

I do keep an eye on this. I have a Hilton Amex and use it only for Hilton and (until the 5 points per $ promotion expires 7/14) grocery stores. I got it for the sign-on bonus but may keep it since there's no annual fee and use it only for Hilton charges. Small business owners I know say Amex is the worst for small businesses and many don't accept it. Same for my AA super-expensive MasterCard with lounge access now that I've done the minimum spend (mostly on AA) for the sign-on bonus. In the cases of both Hilton and AA, the points you get for purchases outside the brand don't have a dollar value as high as the straight cash back on my Fidelity and Costco Visa cards.

 

[Go-NoGo]

In my opinion, it is dangerous for private people if cash cannot be used. The government or other authority could close your accounts for any reasons and you could literally starve to death even if you win later in court.
In many movie situations, good people are running away in situations where, if cash is banned, they may not have a place to live, no food to eat, no transportation, etc.

I was in Sweden sometime ago and took a cab from the Airport to my hotel, we started talking and the taxi driver hated the cashless system. When I probed a little he volunteered and said "Now the government knows exactly how much I make in a year". I left it at that.

Sometimes when people complain about the loss of privacy, its not the privacy.

 

[Drake3287]

Ouch... so you pay the conversion rate twice on the cash..

I'm lucky in the respect that because of my banking status with BofA, fees are waived and the increased rate is very little, not enough to even worry about. As a matter of fact, half the time I redeposit foreign currency, the rate has changed in my favor and I come out ahead.

 

[explanade]

The EU is studying a digital Euro currency.

More and more cashless transactions going on so they want to make sure if cashless, their currency is used.

They’re also going after Apple Pay using anti trust laws because apparently some banks complained that people were ignoring their QR code apps to pay for transactions. They want access to NFC chip to offer their payment system.

 

[JoeWras]

This is not something that would ever concern me! I mean, why would the government want to close my accounts? I gladly pay my taxes and generally comply with the law as every citizen should.

I'm curious why you think the government has any interest in having you or anyone else starve to death.

Say you protest the "wrong" thing and the government uses the power of bank account access against you?

Not that such a thing would ever happen in a free countries. Cough, Canada, cough.

 

[sengsational]

^ I'm not worried about it here. The US will be the slowest to squeeze out currency, and there's not any countries I know of that are anywhere close to getting rid of currency.

 

[brett]

I was in Sweden sometime ago and took a cab from the Airport to my hotel, we started talking and the taxi driver hated the cashless system. When I probed a little he volunteered and said "Now the government knows exactly how much I make in a year". I left it at that.

Sometimes when people complain about the loss of privacy, its not the privacy.

This is exactly why, depending on the accommodation type, we always ask what the discount for cash is when traveling in Italy and Greece.

 

[Koolau]

Say you protest the "wrong" thing and the government uses the power of bank account access against you?

Not that such a thing would ever happen in a free countries. Cough, Canada, cough.

Yep. See my tag line, yet again.

 

[YB88]

I wish I could get get my Kroger owned super market to use Apple Pay.

Last time I was at my local QFC (Kroger owned) I saw signs in the store pushing "Kroger Pay". That's the last thing we need is for each different store chain to start pushing their own mobile payment apps!



Like you, I had started to give up on using Google Pay (now 'wallet') at QFC, but seeing that they're now pushing their own mobile payment platform, I tried again and ... voila! It worked this time.


I have zero confidence that it will keep working reliably from time to time, but maybe it will going forward. In the past I've gotten it to work ... sometimes.

 

[brett]

We are essentially cashless at home.

Just about every purchase we make is tap and go. The only exception is occasionally Costco. If our bill is over $300 we have to insert the card and use our PIN. Costco gas is entirely tap and go. Cannot remember inserting a credit card for years.

Everything goes on one of our three credit cards which we pay by bank transfer each month. The only debit card transaction that we have is with my barber.

It has been this way for at least the past eight years, probably longer. We very seldom go to an ATM for cash. And when we do it lasts for ages.

 

[audreyh1]

We haven’t gone to ATMs in the US in a very long time because we’ve gotten enough annual cash rewards from Costco to cover our very limited cash needs in the US. At least we were able to get the Costco VISA cash rewards direct deposited this year. That still leaves the annual executive rebate.

 

[explanade]

Yeah at home I have maybe a $20 bill and a couple of dollars in my wallet right now.

And most of the time I don't go out with my wallet.

 

[SecondAttempt]

^ I'm not worried about it here. The US will be the slowest to squeeze out currency, and there's not any countries I know of that are anywhere close to getting rid of currency.

I've had some interesting discussions with my Swedish friends around the whole cashless thing. They tend to think we (the US) are stuck in the dark ages in many ways. Not everyone is completely in favor of the direction things are going but enjoy the convenience.

One friend who works in IT, and was working on tracking/geolocation/targeted advertising on cell phones before Google even existed, is fairly concerned about the privacy issues. He's not paranoid or even political. He just has enough detailed inside knowledge about what is technically possible to have concerns. And europe has the GDPR laws which offer much greater protection than we get in the US.

Another theme I heard from several friends is that digital payments exploded all over europe in the last couple of years because, as they put it, while the US made covid political and spent a lot of energy arguing about it, most of europe just accepted it as a reality and quickly developed ways to work around it and digital payment systems were a big part of that.

Personally I am not too concerned about my privacy. Google knows enough about me already that knowing how much I spend and where is just not a big deal to me. But I am also not worried about the government coming after me if I protest the wrong thing. I just don't see that happening in the US. Maybe I am naive. But if this country comes to that I would seriously consider moving to someplace in Europe (or Canada).

 

[audreyh1]

Another theme I heard from several friends is that digital payments exploded all over europe in the last couple of years because, as they put it, while the US made covid political and spent a lot of energy arguing about it, most of europe just accepted it as a reality and quickly developed ways to work around it and digital payment systems were a big part of that.

I last traveled in Europe in late 2019 and Apple Pay was already widespread back then.

The only place I had to pull out my chip and PIN priority card was at a metro ticket station. Hopefully all those public transportation kiosks take tap to pay or Apple Pay now.

 

[SecondAttempt]

Be interested to hear how it goes in Copenhagen.

Denmark was pretty similar to Sweden, no cash needed. This morning we took the train out to meet a friend in a semi-rural town. I tried to get rid of some old coins to buy the train tickets but the machine was finicky and rejected most of my old coins (2012/16 vintage so not that old.) I was able to get rid of two 100 kr bills I had leftover. If you visit tivoli they have a 5 kr deposit on to-go cups for coffee, beer, etc. This is refunded by a machine with a 5 kr coin so coins still are used.

Almost everywhere assumes you are going to use a tap to pay. Sometimes I had to sign a receipt, I think because of the type of card I had. Or it could possibly be because of the amount because it was usually for larger purchases. It was no big deal.

Tap to pay is everywhere in Copenhagen and even in the small town we were in. Can't say if that applies to the entire country.

 

[OldConch]

Last time I was at my local QFC (Kroger owned) I saw signs in the store pushing "Kroger Pay". That's the last thing we need is for each different store chain to start pushing their own mobile payment apps!



Like you, I had started to give up on using Google Pay (now 'wallet') at QFC, but seeing that they're now pushing their own mobile payment platform, I tried again and ... voila! It worked this time.


I have zero confidence that it will keep working reliably from time to time, but maybe it will going forward. In the past I've gotten it to work ... sometimes.

Used Apple Pay for the first time at our local Fred Meyer today.

 

[Chuckanut]

Used Apple Pay for the first time at our local Fred Meyer today.

Kroger seems to be very secretive regarding Apple Pay. From what I have heard it is being rolled out very slowly, region by region and sometimes store by store. My local Fred Meyer still does not use Apple Pay as far as I can see. But, I will look harder at the electronic gizmo that handles payment the next time I am in the store. Perhaps, they have stealthily introduced Apple Pay but are too stubborn to admit it.

My area still needs an Aldi and/or a Lidl to increase competition.