Car dealers and the games they play.

[splitwdw]

I scheduled my suv for 2 recalls at my local dealership. I work so they sent a valet driver to pick it up at 8:30AM. Heard nothing all day long and the tracking link they sent showed my vehicle didn't move until 2:30PM. Finally got hold of my service rep and he said they were closing soon and it wasn't done yet. When I started to question why it was taking so long I was told there were 30 cars in front of me...I made the appointment 2 weeks before. I got a coworker to drop me off and it still wasn't done. I got out of there a little after 6PM. Yesterday I noticed that my floor mat on the passenger side where they had been working was pulled up. When I went to straighten it out, I found that they had cracked one of the hard plastic panels in the foot area. You can see where they tried to glue the panel. Now I have to take it back to the dealer because they can't believe that one of their mechanics would do that.

 

[Car-Guy]

No. I get those 3 services 4 times for $199. So $50 for each visit.

Now that's a good deal, as long as they tighten the oil filter, drain plug and lug nuts each time.

 

[GenXguy]

Now that's a good deal, as long as they tighten the oil filter, drain plug and lug nuts each time.

That reminds me. The recent $25 oil change and filter with tire rotation I did, they didn't rotate the tires. I mentioned it in advance and specifically asked them as I was picking it up if they rotated the tires. They said yes. But of course, I could tell they hadn't because the tires with lesser tread were still on the front left and front right as they had when I took it in. The rear tires still had the deeper tread.

 

[pjigar]

The only time I use dealers is for recall services. I do all repair and maintenance on our cars. It all started with an oil change 25 years ago. I kept graduating to the next difficult thing and onwards. Learn as you go with the help from Factory Service Manual, very good OBD2 scanner, Forums and YouTube.

 

[captain3d]

I have never been into a car dealer. Anyone else? Yes I have car.

 

[brett]

I do not use dealer service.

I do keep track of all fluids as per the manual. Just did my brake fluid at 5 years. The was the recommended interval. My service guy checked it from time to time and said no issue.

I also use OEM fluids for everything except oil.

I have had my oil changed at the dealership a few times. Why? They always give me a long list of to do's. I take the list to our local independent Toyota trained tech. He goes through it and crosses off at least half, usually more. The last list was 3300. at the dealer. 1400 at the ship...using oem parts.

 

[JoeWras]

Also be very careful of those lifetime warranty offers many dealers have. "Buy with us, and your car is covered free for life, as long as you own it!"

The fine print frequently says you have to use their recommended service items at their recommended intervals. Buyer beware.

 

[wrigley]

Never heard of a dealership giving a free "loaner car" for out of warranty work. I have gotten a free "loaner car" through many dealerships for work that was performed during the warranty period.

Mike

 

[Dtail]

Timely thread as I had my Mazda serviced yesterday. Typical stuff, but they recommended 4 extra things, including wiper blades front and back. I knew we didn't need blades, so on pickup I told him I just replaced the blades last week (not true but) and the manager was there too. I had fun with both of them before leaving.

 

[frayne]

That's why they have earned the name stealerships.

+1


It's funny watching these guys work the lady customers in the waiting room. I don't know how they sleep at night or look themselves in the mirror in the morning. Standing rule in our house, if the wife takes her car in and the service guy recommends anything, she dials my number and the guy has to talk to me. Nine times out of ten, it's a some minor issue I can do for a quarter of the cost or not even needed. A few examples, wiper blades, engine air filter, cleaning battery terminal, cabin filter. Cleaning the fuel injection systems, I question the need and still haven't gotten a satisfactory answer as to why this even needs to be done on a vehicle with less than 50K miles.

 

[old medic]

Also be very careful of those lifetime warranty offers many dealers have. "Buy with us, and your car is covered free for life, as long as you own it!"
The fine print frequently says you have to use their recommended service items at their recommended intervals. Buyer beware.

We were looking at a newer truck that was under this type warranty... Not only did they need to do the service work, they also needed to do any warrantied repairs. I directly questioned them since country wide towing a camper was in the plans. Imagine a tow bill from CA to NC X2...
But then something else came up... A round trip to CA would have require an oil change, at their dealership, and the warrantee would be voided...
LOL

 

[freedomatlast]

Never heard of a dealership giving a free "loaner car" for out of warranty work. I have gotten a free "loaner car" through many dealerships for work that was performed during the warranty period.

Mike

Around here all the higher end dealers give loaners out anytime the car is in for service, for any reason. But even the Honda and Subaru dealers give out loaners for any service work regardless of whether it's warranty work or not.

 

[disneysteve]

Around here all the higher end dealers give loaners out anytime the car is in for service, for any reason. But even the Honda and Subaru dealers give out loaners for any service work regardless of whether it's warranty work or not.

Toyota here. As I said, I get a free loaner for any service, even an oil change. It is a huge reason I stick with the dealership, among others. I drive up, drop off my car, and in 15 minutes I'm on my way in the loaner.

 

[frank]

being the relative of a service manager I will say that the person to watch out for is the service writer that checks your car in. He is the one who will try to upsell you things you do not need. they are paid on a commission, so the more you buy the more they earn. I like to go by the owners manual. an example is the owner manual says transmission oil in my prius is lifetime but they tell me I should change it. pay attention to the manual on recommended services and not the guy at the door trying to make more money from the customers.

 

[JoeWras]

being the relative of a service manager I will say that the person to watch out for is the service writer that checks your car in. He is the one who will try to upsell you things you do not need. they are paid on a commission, so the more you buy the more they earn. I like to go by the owners manual. an example is the owner manual says transmission oil in my prius is lifetime but they tell me I should change it. pay attention to the manual on recommended services and not the guy at the door trying to make more money from the customers.

Agree. The service writer is the second most ruthless salesperson on the premises. The first is the finance person. The third is your car salesperson.

It hasn't always been this way. The service writer at my Subaru dealer was very good. Then management changed, he retired, and they got this guy who will lie his way to any sale possible, right down to keeping fake cabin filters full of dirt.

This change has come about as cars got more reliable and their service business dried up.

 

[MichealKnight]

*stifling*

Yep, sometimes businesses upsell.

However, not this injection example - but many many OEM's - you know those great car companies "I wanna buy direct from!"....the same saintly OEM's who knowingly sold cars with bad airbags and tendency to catch fire and have no clue how to provide personalized service beyond the chat bot and 1-800 number.....*they* are the ones more and more forcing upsell services. And they demand OEM parts and accessories even though they are pricier than other brand name parts.

Either way, luckily Tesla led the way. "Full price is fair price - pay what's on the sticker". And after Covid, with supplies dwindling - that model seemed to appeal to other competitors - on steroids.

In the end - there will be far less dealer rooftops, owned by only a few entities. Profit margins are already at records for auto dealers - huge records. And will get even better as competition is eliminated. As far as dealing direct with OEM's - yes, the call center in Detroit will be fine - -- and - they have shareholders who demand return on investment. There will be zero savings to the end user - only price hikes.

These things take time.

But - they are very much underway.

 

[JoeWras]

Yep, sometimes businesses upsell.

However, not this injection example - but many many OEM's - you know those great car companies "I wanna buy direct from!"....the same saintly OEM's who knowingly sold cars with bad airbags and tendency to catch fire and have no clue how to provide personalized service beyond the chat bot and 1-800 number.....*they* are the ones more and more forcing upsell services. And they demand OEM parts and accessories even though they are pricier than other brand name parts.

LOL! Saintly. I know some people treat their Honda and Toyota dealers as saints, but it is just some of us. I sure hope most people walk into a dealer with shields up. If not, they should.

Your point on demand for OEM is good. This is actually against the law.

From the Magnuson-Moss warranty act:

Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty.[7] This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions[8] and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

However, that's a manufacturing warranty. Those other "warranties" that dealers sell, which we discussed above, are not real warranties so they can get away with all kinds of restrictive shenanigans.

 

[frank]

Yep, sometimes businesses upsell.

However, not this injection example - but many many OEM's - you know those great car companies "I wanna buy direct from!"....the same saintly OEM's who knowingly sold cars with bad airbags and tendency to catch fire and have no clue how to provide personalized service beyond the chat bot and 1-800 number.....*they* are the ones more and more forcing upsell services. And they demand OEM parts and accessories even though they are pricier than other brand name parts.

Either way, luckily Tesla led the way. "Full price is fair price - pay what's on the sticker". And after Covid, with supplies dwindling - that model seemed to appeal to other competitors - on steroids.

In the end - there will be far less dealer rooftops, owned by only a few entities. Profit margins are already at records for auto dealers - huge records. And will get even better as competition is eliminated. As far as dealing direct with OEM's - yes, the call center in Detroit will be fine - -- and - they have shareholders who demand return on investment. There will be zero savings to the end user - only price hikes.

These things take time.

But - they are very much underway.

agreed.
the relative I referred to is an employee of a corporation that owns virtually all the dealerships in a certain town. about 10 in all and the corporation does send down directives to the service writers about what to try to upsell and how often in order to keep their bottom line moving upward. these dealerships charge a 22% shop supply fee. talk about gouging.

 

[MaxFIRE]

Also be very careful of those lifetime warranty offers many dealers have. "Buy with us, and your car is covered free for life, as long as you own it!"

The fine print frequently says you have to use their recommended service items at their recommended intervals. Buyer beware.

Folks should also be aware that if a dealership gets sold to another entity, those lifetime warranties and other types of service agreements could end up null and void. This happened to a family member.

 

[Midpack]

I took my truck to the dealer today to get the oil changed and tires rotated. They ran a good deal on it so no issue there. However, the game they play is the "recommended" service suggestions. Standing there, he said my truck was due for a fuel injection cleaning. I said no thank you. My truck is a 2021 with 25K miles on it. When I pick up the truck, he says that he wrote the recommended services on the receipt. Fuel injection service $199 and a new one - flushing the brake fluid $160.

So, I get home and look in the manual for these recommended services. The fuel injection service isn't even in the maintenance schedule. The brake fluid service is in the maintenance schedule but it's based on years - 5 years.

Isn't this some sort of fraud/deception? I know better, but does the average person? I don't think so. I feel that if the dealer says "recommended", it should be based on the manufacturer's published maintenance schedule.

Every dealer I have been to for the last 20 years has tried to pull that trick. I just do the maintenance required in the original manual, and ignore what dealers recommend. I am sure it works on many hapless customers, that's sad. DW knows to call me if they recommend anything extra for her car, and 9 times out of 10 the extras are nonsense - and some of those are things I can service myself, e.g various filters.

 

[JoeWras]

Folks should also be aware that if a dealership gets sold to another entity, those lifetime warranties and other types of service agreements could end up null and void. This happened to a family member.

Wow. So I repeated what I've heard. We now have two replies from first hand bad experience.

Avoid these service plans. They are not a good value. Yes, I said "service plan" because they are not warranties by the legal definition. This kind of nonsense would not be allowed by Manguson-Moss.

 

[Moparguy392]

I took my 20 y/o low mileage truck in recently to have the brakes inspected at an independent repair facility. They inspected the brakes no charge and said they were fine. I told them the ebrake was soft and didn't seem to hold well. They said the ebrake cable was out of available adjustment and I would need a new cable. They quoted $515.00 for the cable P/L. Haven't done it yet but that is what it seems to cost after checking around. That was a bit of a shocker. I avoid parking down hill and park front wheels against a curb when I can

 

[ls99]

How about:
"When I collected my new Toyota C-HR, I was told there was only one key as there was a shortage of chips to make them, and the spare key would arrive later."
"But when I contacted another Toyota dealer, they said they could supply a spare in seven to 10 days, at a cost of *approx £450."

Am guessing that is about US $900.- for a bloody key.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/ask-the-expert-why-cant-toyota-supply-my-new-cars-spare-key/

 

[freedomatlast]

I took my 20 y/o low mileage truck in recently to have the brakes inspected at an independent repair facility. They inspected the brakes no charge and said they were fine. I told them the ebrake was soft and didn't seem to hold well. They said the ebrake cable was out of available adjustment and I would need a new cable. They quoted $515.00 for the cable P/L. Haven't done it yet but that is what it seems to cost after checking around. That was a bit of a shocker. I avoid parking down hill and park front wheels against a curb when I can

You can replace the cables or you may be able to modify the adjustment rod. The adjustment rod is only threaded part way up the length. Take the adjustment rod off and run a die down the rest of the rod to make threads further down the rest of the rod. Now you'll have enough adjustment to make the parking brake feel like new again. At least this is the way it was on my old Dakota.

I did replace rusted ebrake cables on another Dakota. Had $90 in parts from Rock Auto and about 3 hours labor so your $500 estimate sounds about right for someone else to do it.

 

[Momoney293]

So where does this stop? At your dentist? Mine recommended extracting a healthy (no pain) molar ....sid it was due & I should get an implant...price one lately? Turns out five years later it is still chewing hard nuts. Sure, it may cause pains down the road and require extraction....WHAT BUSINESS DOES NOT OPERATE LIKE THIS ?