GM SUV sales in freefall...........

[FinanceDude]

In my 4 cyl Accord, I am frequently alone. Plus, I drive about 18,000 miles a year so I get the fuel efficient one.

DW has a 6 mile commute each way to work. I actually pass her work down and back each day, but she reports later, often works later, and sometimes keeps weird hours, so the carpool idea wouldn't work. In addition, my Accord is the "errand runner" for most things.

The minivan is used when we go somewhere as a family (4 of us), vacations, if family and friends are in town, or if I need to haul something for the ever constant home improvements. DW fills up every 2 weeks, and I fill up every 7-8 days.

So far, the system works..........

 

[Milton]

Hmmm, bet those trains are real gas guzzlers too based only on mpg.

I very much doubt it. For one thing, they don't have to stop and go like automobiles: once the train is in motion, momentum kicks in and it takes very little effort (i.e., energy) to keep it going, at least on the flat.

FWIW, some comparisons are available at strickland.ca - transportation energy efficiency (fuel consumption). I don't know how reliable the data is, but on the face of it trains are much more efficient, on a pax-mpg basis, than cars. Common sense, really.

 

[FinanceDude]

I very much doubt it. For one thing, they don't have to stop and go like automobiles: once the train is in motion, momentum kicks in and it takes very little effort (i.e., energy) to keep it going, at least on the flat.

FWIW, some comparisons are available at strickland.ca - transportation energy efficiency (fuel consumption). I don't know how reliable the data is, but on the face of it trains are much more efficient, on a pax-mpg basis, than cars. Common sense, really.

If a car had the same rolling resisitance as a train, it might get 200 mpg..........

 

[Bestwifeever]

...but on the face of it trains are much more efficient, on a pax-mpg basis, than cars. Common sense, really.

That is my point exactly--we need to look at mpg PER PASSENGER before calling something a gas hog.... I bet those so-called gas-guzzling jumbo jets referred to earlier in this thread get pretty good MPG per passenger too (edited to add I see they get 86 mpg per passenger in a 737-400 per the site Milton provided).

I don't really care what anyone drives, by the way--I wouldn't make a judgment on them. It sounds like the big 3 American automakers will be getting out of the big car business real soon.

 

[Milton]

Really soon!

 

[Bestwifeever]

Real nice.

So that's how the ignore poster function works.

 

[RunningBum]

I haven't seen anything that suggests someone picked an SUV for its usefulness. I haven't even seen anything that really suggests an SUV has any more usefulness than a car. Even at Home Depot I've seen more trucks, station wagons and old beaters with more stored in them than any given SUV.

I take 5 or 6 long drives a year (>900 miles) in my Honda Pilot. (Fortunately I shouldn't have to do this anymore after 1 more drive next week.) My SUV is always pretty well loaded on the drive. It wouldn't be possible to get that stuff in a sedan. I could possibly get away with less stuff, but on this final trip I will have it fully packed.

For some school activities, parents drive up to 400 miles round trip. By using 3 seat vans and SUVs, we take at least one less vehicle than if we only had cars for 20 or so people plus equipment that simply would not fit in a sedan.

I live in the mountains. All wheel drive is quite important in the winter, so that's why I went with an SUV over a van. And driving up and down the mountain is very hard on 4 cyclinder trucks, so a 6 cylinder is really needed. My more fuel efficient CRV wasn't cutting it so I traded it in.

So now you've seen at least one person who has picked an SUV for its usefulness, and makes use of the inteneded features.

 

[Zathras]

That is my point exactly--we need to look at mpg PER PASSENGER before calling something a gas hog....

I rarely consider someone driving a big SUV a gas hog if they are loaded down, or have a number of passengers, etc.
I do make that judgement (yes, I know, too quickly but I still tend to) when I see someone driving without a bunch of stuff or passengers.
Very funny the other day when I stopped in at Home Depot with my Prius.
I left with 10 8' 2"x4"s and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff. Started loading it into the hatch of the Prius. Lady with a Navigator comes out of the store with two potted plants. Smirks at me and takes off (I don't think she thought I could fit the 2"x4"s in the Prius

 

[Zipper]

We just lost the Oshawa truck plant. (GMC Sierras and Silverados)

 

[ls99]

Neighbor traded in in 2 yr old dodge suv for a dodge small car. They rarely drove the SUV, unless family outing, 4 people on board.. Took a bath on trade in, now has bigger monthly payment and higher insurance cost. But it is very fuel efficient, especially since it is rarely driven. I asked him if he ran the numbers to see what is cost effective, his answer, no but I know I will save on gas.

Oh, and he drives a 1/2 ton pickup truck to work, with tonneau cover (never hauls anything but himself) 60 miles round trip.

OTOH I just hauled home 2400 lb of of pavers in my 1999 suburban. Which I bought for cash in 2001. Max load capacity 2700 lb. Delivery charge would have been $75.- for 22 mile round trip. Heck, that is half a tank of gas, now @3.90/gal, have 45 gal tank.

 

[ls99]

If a car had the same rolling resisitance as a train, it might get 200 mpg..........

I spent a few years in the steel wheeled industry.
To give you a clue about rolling resistance of a steel wheeled vehicle: a 125000 lb light rail vehicle with 6 sets of steel wheels, 4 sets of wheels each powered via 250 HP AC electric motor (1000 HP total) through gear box and and 2 sets unpowered, 3 average size men cold push it on flat track. Stopping it is another matter. We needed a guy in the cab to apply brakes.

During football games we would have what we called crush loads. 290 bodies per car, 3 cars coupled to make train.

Talk about up close and personal.

 

[UncleHoney]

Oh, and he drives a 1/2 ton pickup truck to work, with tonneau cover (never hauls anything but himself) 60 miles round trip.

An ex-coworker still drives a big Chevy Dually diesel truck about 65 miles round trip to work every day. Just imagine feeding that thing about 4-1/2 gallons of $4.79 diesel everyday five days a week.

 

[TromboneAl]

A very earth-minded friend recently sold her 33 MPG car to get a diesel jeep, planning to make her own biodiesel. But now she's finding that she can't get any vegetable oil (says all the restaurants have "contracted out" their used oil) for under $5 per gallon. The jeep gets 17 MPG.

 

[ls99]

A very earth-minded friend recently sold her 33 MPG car to get a diesel jeep, planning to make her own biodiesel........... jeep gets 17 MPG.

Must folks grossly underestimate the hassles and effort involved in biodiesel. Probably spend 1/3d of their fuel to get more. The stuff is heavy, messy, need good bit of plumbing. Even retired I would not mess with it. As they say: looks good in print.

 

[Walt34]

Some of us do use the capabilities of a big truck. Today for example, we went over to FIL's house after a storm killed the power, carrying a 4500 watt generator for his refrigerator & freezer, a chain saw to clear some felled trees, a 5 hp shredder for the smaller branches, ramps to get the heavy things on & off the truck, a cooler filled with water bottles, (his water comes from a well) a new dehumidifier for his damp basement and an assortment of gasoline cans, extension cords and other tools.

No way would all of that stuff fit in a little truck that would have needed two trips.

 

[samclem]

Some of us do use the capabilities of a big truck.

True. However, I've gotten a tremendous amount of use out my small, cheap utility trailer.
Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices
4' x 8' of pure, totally unobstructed cargo area which is nice and low to the ground with no sides to get in the way unless I want them. 1270 lbs cargo capacity. I can pull it just fine (even up hills) fully loaded with our smallish minivan. Plus, it folds in half and stores upright in the garage. Best of all, I don't care if it gets scratched up and I can pull it around the yard by hand with lighter loads (mulch, branches, etc) and not leave ruts. It's the best $300 I've ever spent.
For my particular purposes, it gives me more utility than I'd get with a pickup, though it certainly can't carry 3/4 tons over rough terrain as well. I don't see many pickups carrying those loads, either, though.

On another subject: I wonder why no one sells these "bongo" trucks in the US. You see them everywhere in Asia and the middle east. They are about the same overall size as a typical US full-size pickup, but they typically have a much smaller engine (1.8 - 2.0 liter gas or diesel---lots of range in the gearbox, but don't expect 75 MPH up a steep hill fully loaded). The sides and tailgate fold down to allow unimpeded access to the cargo area. They are a lot more practical and fuel efficient than a US-style pickup. Maybe when fuel prices get high enough and we figure out that moving cargo is what is most important (rather than "my, ah, em, 'toolbox' is bigger than your 'toolbox'") these will start to proliferate.

The crush zone in the front is not very big--maybe the safety issues are what keep them off our roads.

 

[REWahoo]

Samclem, those trucks have been growing in popularity in the US, but aren't street legal for the safety reasons you mentioned. Here's an example of where you can purchase one for your ranch. Mini Trucks

 

[Walt34]

Both of the pickups I've owned I bought for the main purpose of "hauling" large radio control airplanes. A big one might weigh 20 pounds but they're big and bulky to transport and store. And of course the truck has a cap over the bed. Very few of them would fit in any size car even unassembled.

The other functionalities of a pickup I discovered along the way. One could say that a mini-van with the seats removed would serve the airplane purpose but the other capabilities we've found make it worthwhile to us. DW is the one who especially likes having the truck although she's only driven it twice.

But as others have noticed with fuel at $4/gallon and climbing we will reassess how much we really like it when this one wears out. By then I'll (hopefully) be north of 70 and I'm not sure how much heavy hauling I'm going to be doing then. In the meantime the convenience of that cavernous cargo area that does not have to be spotlessly clean is very attractive.

 

[Milton]

Good point re the bongo trucks. "Coming soon to a dealership near you?" Hope so! The safety concerns wouldn't matter if all vehicles were of lighter construction and had smaller engines (= slower speeds).

Real nice.

If you wish to revel in your illiteracy, that's your privilege.

 

[Keyboard Ninja]

How come it is rare for the average car owner to admit that the "cool" factor was a part of their decision process when trying to justify their choices? I'm sure that the extremist out there "need" a particular vehicle, but the majority of the population does not fit in that category.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

How come it is rare for the average car owner to admit that the "cool" factor was a part of their decision process when trying to justify their choices? I'm sure that the extremist out there "need" a particular vehicle, but the majority of the population does not fit in that category.

Ya when buying my 2002 Hyundia Elantra. It was all about the cool choices Really when I bought my car it was cheap to buy. They hold up well and are good city cars with decent mpg at the time.

 

[Keyboard Ninja]

Ya when buying my 2002 Hyundia Elantra. It was all about the cool choices Really when I bought my car it was cheap to buy. They hold up well and are good city cars with decent mpg at the time.

How is their reliability? I've always thought of them as "cool" little cars that were cheap .

 

[brewer12345]

I must be the only person in 'Murrica that is reconsidering the (positive) merits of an SUV. I drive a 4 cylinder on my long commute, while DW tools around in the minivan. Since she maybe puts 6000 miles a year on the van, we probably wouldn't be bothered by gas prices unless they were north of $10/gal, even at low 20s MPG in the van. But since we bought a travel trailer, I can see the point of at least a crossover SUV as far as towing is concerned. The van does fine, but is clearly close to its limits when we are loaded and towing.

 

[RE2Boys]

You know, they call them "sport utility vehicles" for a reason, they generally make crappy utility vehicles. If you need to haul stuff, nothing beats a pickup or if need be covered, a van. Remember working at a Sears store's branch of a major tax prep company. Our kiosk was near the customer delivery area. Almost daily, I would see someone trying to load something into an SUV and it didn't fit when I knew it would have been a no-brainer in a minivan.

It's a shame minivan's have such a negative connotation with so many folks. I think it's because they are of the generation where the minivan was Mom's car and now would not wish to be seen in one. Know lots of families in our area where that's the case. Of course, when it comes to hauling a several scouts and their gear, the so called utility vehicle is sadly wanting. Takes a Suburban to out-cargo/out-passenger my minivan and it will never get 24 mpg. Jeeps, Explorers, and the like are poor compromises unless hauling a trailer or absolutely need 4WD. (I live in the snow belt of the Great Lakes and have only been stuck once this past winter with FWD)

But a minivan can't do everything. The trick to wise vehicle selection is to get one that does the job efficiently 90% of the time. Or be willing to pay a hefty premium for the last few %. But that is what many folks choose to spend their money on and will be spending even more in the future.

In the last month I've had to haul newspapers to the recycling center for the Scouts, a yard of topsoil, two yards of mulch, and 1500 pounds of sand. The messy stuff is when my 5X8 utility trailer comes in play.

RE2Boys

 

[ERD50]

A very earth-minded friend recently sold her 33 MPG car to get a diesel jeep, planning to make her own biodiesel. But now she's finding that she can't get any vegetable oil (says all the restaurants have "contracted out" their used oil) for under $5 per gallon. The jeep gets 17 MPG.

I was speaking with my brother about this today. He has a small business and a number of diesel trucks on the road all day. He looked into it earlier, but was afraid of the possibility of long term damage to his expensive trucks.

Today, he said that one of the trucks is older, he would risk it to save some $, and then he found out that the veggie oil is very hard to come by and expensive - it is getting bought up.

Hw knows someone that runs the straight veggie oil - you need heaters and a separate tank to start/stop the engine on regular diesel. But if you can't get the oil....

-ERD50